What's been your experience with acoustic treatments?

[jlafrenz]

Sept 21, 2016 14:27:42 GMT -5 jcisbig said:

One of the biggest concerns I would have with building my own would be that I wouldn't be as sure of the performance of my panels compared to another company's panels. I might put all that time into building my own panels, but they may not work at certain frequencies, or they maybe less effective with other frequencies. With the professionally made panels I have confidence in knowing what they're capable of, backed up by 3rd party measurements.

I wouldn't worry as the materials you can buy for DIY are the same or very similar that the pros are using to construct their panels. There are a few sites out there that give all the specs of the materials available.

If this doesn't put you at ease, perhaps knowing that GIK has a section about DIY and sells the materials necessary.

www.gikacoustics.com/product-category/diy-acoustic-panel-bass-traps-supplies/

[sebastianr]

I used jlafrenz's diy tutorial to make his super chunk corner bass traps. They turned out great. Then I stumbled across some ATS Acoustic Panels that cost me about $18 a piece. But if I didn't get such a great deal I would have gone DIY for those extra panels too. If you have the skills don't shy away from DIY acoustic treatments, they can be just as effective as the kind you purchase. I had a guy professionally tune my system and you could see on the computer screen what the panels did to the sound in the room.

[leonski]

Sept 21, 2016 14:27:42 GMT -5 jcisbig said:

One of the biggest concerns I would have with building my own would be that I wouldn't be as sure of the performance of my panels compared to another company's panels. I might put all that time into building my own panels, but they may not work at certain frequencies, or they maybe less effective with other frequencies. With the professionally made panels I have confidence in knowing what they're capable of, backed up by 3rd party measurements.

EVERYbody  uses OC703 or Rockwool. If you use a good (acoustically) transparent cover and hang 'em spaced from the wall, your performance should be as close to identical as the measure system will allow.  
Look up the OC703 yourself and compare to THIS made by Roxul.   MANY ONLINE DIY instructions.     

www.acoustimac.com/roxul-rb6-2in?gclid=CJeqnYaGos8CFUVafgodbggCqQ

[jcisbig]

You guys have said enough that I'm at least considering building my own treatments at this point. : )

A few questions:
1) What's the best way to determine if a certain fabric is acoustically transparent enough?
2) What's the best dimensional wood to use for a standard 2x4 wall trap? 1in x 3in?
3) Is there a benefit to leaving a little bit of an air gap between the back of the insulation and the wall? (Hence the 1x3 frame, with 1" of gap between the insulation and the wall)
4) Are there any plans/ideas out there for building bass traps similar to the soffit traps that GIK makes? The soffits are quite a bit more effective than the tri-traps as far as how much they can absorb and how low they can absorb as well.

Thanks!

[KeithL]

"Enough" is always a relative term.....

However, you can tell how acoustically transparent a piece of cloth is simply by holding it over your ear.

Sept 28, 2016 11:34:07 GMT -5 jcisbig said:

You guys have said enough that I'm at least considering building my own treatments at this point. : )

A few questions:
1) What's the best way to determine if a certain fabric is acoustically transparent enough?
2) What's the best dimensional wood to use for a standard 2x4 wall trap? 1in x 3in?
3) Is there a benefit to leaving a little bit of an air gap between the back of the insulation and the wall? (Hence the 1x3 frame, with 1" of gap between the insulation and the wall)
4) Are there any plans/ideas out there for building bass traps similar to the soffit traps that GIK makes? The soffits are quite a bit more effective than the tri-traps as far as how much they can absorb and how low they can absorb as well.

Thanks!

[jcisbig]

Sept 28, 2016 11:43:41 GMT -5 KeithL said:

"Enough" is always a relative term.....

However, you can tell how acoustically transparent a piece of cloth is simply by holding it over your ear.

Sept 28, 2016 11:34:07 GMT -5 jcisbig said:

You guys have said enough that I'm at least considering building my own treatments at this point. : )

A few questions:
1) What's the best way to determine if a certain fabric is acoustically transparent enough?
2) What's the best dimensional wood to use for a standard 2x4 wall trap? 1in x 3in?
3) Is there a benefit to leaving a little bit of an air gap between the back of the insulation and the wall? (Hence the 1x3 frame, with 1" of gap between the insulation and the wall)
4) Are there any plans/ideas out there for building bass traps similar to the soffit traps that GIK makes? The soffits are quite a bit more effective than the tri-traps as far as how much they can absorb and how low they can absorb as well.

Thanks!

I guess I was trying to get a comparison to the GOM fabrics that some treatment companies seem to like. Never having seen GOM fabrics before, I really don't know what to look in a fabric if I walk into a fabric store.

[leonski]

Sept 28, 2016 11:43:41 GMT -5 KeithL said:

"Enough" is always a relative term.....

However, you can tell how acoustically transparent a piece of cloth is simply by holding it over your ear.

Sept 28, 2016 11:34:07 GMT -5 jcisbig said:

You guys have said enough that I'm at least considering building my own treatments at this point. : )

A few questions:
1) What's the best way to determine if a certain fabric is acoustically transparent enough?
2) What's the best dimensional wood to use for a standard 2x4 wall trap? 1in x 3in?
3) Is there a benefit to leaving a little bit of an air gap between the back of the insulation and the wall? (Hence the 1x3 frame, with 1" of gap between the insulation and the wall)
4) Are there any plans/ideas out there for building bass traps similar to the soffit traps that GIK makes? The soffits are quite a bit more effective than the tri-traps as far as how much they can absorb and how low they can absorb as well.

Thanks!

1.   The general test for fabric is to breath thru it.    Less restriction the better.   The least obstructive fabric MIGHT also not provide the VISUAL  you desire, so it might pay to order
      Samples before 'the big order'.   Time spent in consultation with the UberFurher will pay off with later acceptance of the project.
2.  I like 'soft' corners' so will use 1x3 and 4" OC703 or equal.   The idea is to wrap the fabric around the front and secure in back with staples.  
3.  Yes.   Airgap would appear to be a decent idea.   The wave passes THRU the trap, reflects and passes thru AGAIN.   I use small felted spacers at
      each corner to provide such spacing.   Felts are at the end of say a 1x1 and finish nailed into the corners.    Add Glue for longevity.
Trap SHOULD have a Cross Brace to prevent 'racking'.  
4.  Countless DIY Vids on YouTube.  To make the best use of material, cut the 2'x4' batts into 45/45/90 TRIANGLES which, if properly dimensioned, will use the entire piece with ZERO waste.
     Cutting that stuff is a PIA so do NOT cut in the house.   Wear protective clothing including a dust mask.   HOODED Tyvek Suits are about 13$ at the local home store.  Maybe some Nitrile
     Gloves, too.   

To prevent later migration of particles, first covering the panel with a 'barrier fabric' might be in order.   Same rules as the cover fabric apply.

[saru]

Sept 28, 2016 11:50:31 GMT -5 jcisbig said:

Sept 28, 2016 11:43:41 GMT -5 KeithL said:

"Enough" is always a relative term.....

However, you can tell how acoustically transparent a piece of cloth is simply by holding it over your ear.

I guess I was trying to get a comparison to the GOM fabrics that some treatment companies seem to like. Never having seen GOM fabrics before, I really don't know what to look in a fabric if I walk into a fabric store.

You can order free swatches from GOM's website if you want to see them firsthand.

[Mark]

Sept 28, 2016 11:34:07 GMT -5 jcisbig said:

You guys have said enough that I'm at least considering building my own treatments at this point. : )

A few questions:
1) What's the best way to determine if a certain fabric is acoustically transparent enough?
2) What's the best dimensional wood to use for a standard 2x4 wall trap? 1in x 3in?
3) Is there a benefit to leaving a little bit of an air gap between the back of the insulation and the wall? (Hence the 1x3 frame, with 1" of gap between the insulation and the wall)
4) Are there any plans/ideas out there for building bass traps similar to the soffit traps that GIK makes? The soffits are quite a bit more effective than the tri-traps as far as how much they can absorb and how low they can absorb as well.

Thanks!

I am not an acoustic expert, I did talk to Bryan Pape at Gik for some insight before venturing out on this project. At the end of the day I used Roxul AFB ($120) 3lb cut into 16" squares stacked floor to ceiling in the front two corners. I then built a 2x4 wall and used one piece of Roxul AFB with a 4" airgap off the front wall. I added (2) Gik Monster bass traps with limiters at first reflection and (2) GIK 244's at the back of the room and now my acoustics are light years ahead of where I was before. I know people are going to think I have the Monster traps and 244's reversed from how they should be but after the recommended installation I had a 12db dip at 95hz, so I swapped the traps and the dip went away so they are staying put!

I bought some black fabric from Joann Fabrics to cover the front wall ($30). I made 1"x2" frames and stapled the fabric to them and shot a 15g nail in a couple places to attach these to the 2x4 wall

[Mark]

You should talk to Bryan at Gik, tell him your plan and he will recommend complimentary pieces to your DIY project. Your DIY and GIK panels combined will get you the best of both worlds at a price you will be happy with. Bryan is all about "YOU" getting the end result right even if it means Gik didn't sell you all the product. Don't buy the Roxul on-line, shipping will make it expensive, Do a search locally and find a hardware store or distributor that sells to the public and go pick it up. Its around $33 a bundle (6 sheets 16"x47")

www.roxul.com/products/residential/where+to+buy/usa+dealers

[yves]

Sept 28, 2016 14:37:10 GMT -5 Mark said:

You should talk to Bryan at Gik, tell him your plan and he will recommend complimentary pieces to your DIY project. Your DIY and GIK panels combined will get you the best of both worlds at a price you will be happy with. Bryan is all about "YOU" getting the end result right even if it means Gik didn't sell you all the product. Don't buy the Roxul on-line, shipping will make it expensive, Do a search locally and find a hardware store or distributor that sells to the public and go pick it up. Its around $33 a bundle (6 sheets 16"x47")

www.roxul.com/products/residential/where+to+buy/usa+dealers

Actually they are either 15¼″×47″ or 23″×47″, albeit the packaging states either 16″×48″ or 24″×48″.

[jcisbig]

Should I aim to build regular tri-traps for my coners, or should I build something square like the GIK soffit traps? Thoughts?

[jcisbig]

Also, can any insulation be used for treatments? Or is there something special about the roxul product?

[jlafrenz]

Here is a tutorial I made that walks you through building DIY panels and tell give you a list of what you need. You can pick a fabric that is acoustically transparent by blowing through it and putting your hand on the other side to feel for air movement. Roxul and OC 703/705 are used because they are rigid and dense which is what gives them their absorption properties.

emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/35317/diy-acoustic-panels-tutorial-2

If you want to build corner traps, here is another tutorial. For these you can use a standard type insulation like you would find at a local hardware store.

emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/43879/diy-superchunk-corner-bass-traps

[jcisbig]

Sept 30, 2016 14:11:37 GMT -5 jlafrenz said:

Here is a tutorial I made that walks you through building DIY panels and tell give you a list of what you need. You can pick a fabric that is acoustically transparent by blowing through it and putting your hand on the other side to feel for air movement. Roxul and OC 703/705 are used because they are rigid and dense which is what gives them their absorption properties.

emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/35317/diy-acoustic-panels-tutorial-2

If you want to build corner traps, here is another tutorial. For these you can use a standard type insulation like you would find at a local hardware store.

emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/43879/diy-superchunk-corner-bass-traps

Thanks for those links!

What's the reason for having to use the Roxul for the higher frequencies, but the bass frequencies are accomplished with more "standard" fiberglass insulation?

Is there any downside to doing a square shaped (instead of triangle) bass trap for the corners? (Other than it taking up more floor/room space)

[leonski]

Don't forget:

It is VERY possible to 'over damp' a room. If some absorption is good, than a LOT must be terrific is NOT quite correct. A dull room is nearly as bad as an echo chamber.
My BRIEF experience in a recording studio was that 2 persons standing back to back could hear each othe but not really tell WHERE the other person was standing. Most of the audible 'cues' are missing
from the deadest spaces.

Instead?

Think about DIFFUSION, which is the 3rd leg of room treatments. 1= reflection 2= absorption 3= diffusion IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER.

There are literally DOZENS of DIY vids and sites detailing the HOW and WHY of diffusion as well as step-by-step and 'build list' oriented instruction.
People who own PANELS (hey! that's ME) are well served by installing diffusion on the wall behind the panel (the 'front' wall) in order to improve imaging and make the room sound larger.

Just keep in mind that it is possible to overdo most ANY type of treatments and a good room will have balance and address a few principles. As always, start with a GOOD FUNDAMENTAL SETUP which makes later treatment
easier. For box speaker owners, many start by treating the first reflection points and going from there. These days, it is also possible to measure and get meaningful results.

www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php

The cardas information is both fairly complete and detailed but also highly regarded.

[Leonard]

I DIY'ed my acoustic treatments. Combination of bass traps, absorbers and diffusers. This was after several weeks of research and measuring.

More info and lots of photos here: emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/48159/leonards-listening-room-build

[jcisbig]

So I went to Lowes today and they don't have any of the 24in x 48in Roxul insulation. I only need 7 sheets of it (comes in a package of 8) but Lowe's has a minimum order of 3 batts (24 pieces total), which is $170 instead of $51! I guess I'll need to find another Lowes that has them in stock unless there's a better place I can get it from?

[leonski]

www.atsacoustics.com/item--Owens-Corning-703-Case-of-6--1004.html

OC703 / 2" in a SIX PACK.

This is the FIRST one I came to, so you should be able to do better.

Also? Anybody else want some 703? You could split an order. 'Group Buys' are a way to save money and get what you need.

[pedrocols]

Sept 21, 2016 22:39:10 GMT -5 leonski said:

Sept 21, 2016 14:27:42 GMT -5 jcisbig said:

One of the biggest concerns I would have with building my own would be that I wouldn't be as sure of the performance of my panels compared to another company's panels. I might put all that time into building my own panels, but they may not work at certain frequencies, or they maybe less effective with other frequencies. With the professionally made panels I have confidence in knowing what they're capable of, backed up by 3rd party measurements.

EVERYbody  uses OC703 or Rockwool. If you use a good (acoustically) transparent cover and hang 'em spaced from the wall, your performance should be as close to identical as the measure system will allow.  
Look up the OC703 yourself and compare to THIS made by Roxul.   MANY ONLINE DIY instructions.     

www.acoustimac.com/roxul-rb6-2in?gclid=CJeqnYaGos8CFUVafgodbggCqQ

That is what I used to build my panels. I did however use the 4" panels. You can even buy them individually.