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Post by Bonzo on Sept 20, 2016 17:21:23 GMT -5
I do most of my listening at the PC via the DC-1 to either headphones or Stealth-6's. You hit the nail on the head with the DC-1. That's exactly the environment it's perfect for. But it's not perfect for an older school stereo system rack for several reasons which I've already mentioned. It was more than that. By Emotiva's own mouth it was an older lower sound quality unit. Not that the XDA-2 was bad, but the DC-1 was their next upgraded generation. If they are planning to upgrade the DC-1, then do that, awesome, make it the best sounding DAC it can be, then also make us an XDA-3 that has the EXACT same sound quality (probably using mostly the same parts), but with more/less features more suited to a rack (more inputs/outputs, no volume or headphone amp). A truly dedicated stand alone DAC. |
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Post by Axis on Sept 20, 2016 17:24:39 GMT -5
I do most of my listening at the PC via the DC-1 to either headphones or Stealth-6's. You hit the nail on the head with the DC-1. That's exactly the environment it's perfect for. But it's not perfect for an older school stereo system rack for several reasons which I've already mentioned. It was more than that. By Emotiva's own mouth it was an older lower sound quality unit. Not that the XDA-2 was bad, but the DC-1 was their next upgraded generation. If they are planning to upgrade the DC-1, then do that, awesome, make it the best sounding DAC it can be, then also make us an XDA-3 that has the EXACT same sound quality (probably using mostly the same parts), but with more/less features more suited to a rack (more inputs/outputs, no volume or headphone amp). A truly dedicated stand alone DAC. They will Bonzo. That is make it a awesome sounding DAC. |
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 20, 2016 17:32:46 GMT -5
They will Bonzo. That is make it a awesome sounding DAC. I do hope so. That is that XDA-3 and DC-2 should sound equality as good, exactly the same. No trade off's in that department like with the XDA-2 and DC-1. |
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Post by brubacca on Sept 20, 2016 17:34:38 GMT -5
Been driving all day and missed this thread.
Keep the DAC as it is, but give me a trigger output.
Honestly that's all I really want added.
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Post by brutiarti on Sept 20, 2016 17:44:48 GMT -5
It was more than that. By Emotiva's own mouth it was an older lower sound quality unit. Not that the XDA-2 was bad, but the DC-1 was their next upgraded generation. If they are planning to upgrade the DC-1, then do that, awesome, make it the best sounding DAC it can be, then also make us an XDA-3 that has the EXACT same sound quality (probably using mostly the same parts), but with more/less features more suited to a rack (more inputs/outputs, no volume or headphone amp). A truly dedicated stand alone DAC. It was weird having the XDA-2 and DC-1 for sale at the same time. I think emotiva lost sales not having a DC-1 performance on a XDA chassis. |
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Post by Axis on Sept 20, 2016 17:46:21 GMT -5
They will Bonzo. That is make it a awesome sounding DAC. I do hope so. That is that XDA-3 and DC-2 should sound equality as good, exactly the same. No trade off's in that department like with the XDA-2 and DC-1. The DC-1 no slouch. I see everyone looking for this magical DAC that is different and that seems to me why they think it is great. Give me a break is all I think. I am listening to a Emotiva DAC right now and though excellent gear and If you really read between the lines on all these post throughout the web this one DAC is better because it is different does not ring true. Emotiva makes great DACs and for a great price. I can tell you where you can spend $80,000 for DAC. Don't do it !  |
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 20, 2016 17:55:07 GMT -5
It was weird having the XDA-2 and DC-1 for sale at the same time. I think emotiva lost sales not having a DC-1 performance on a XDA chassis. +1. Exactly. They lost mine. |
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Post by Percussionista on Sept 20, 2016 17:55:24 GMT -5
I do most of my listening at the PC via the DC-1 to either headphones or Stealth-6's. You hit the nail on the head with the DC-1. That's exactly the environment it's perfect for. But it's not perfect for an older school stereo system rack for several reasons which I've already mentioned. It was more than that. By Emotiva's own mouth it was an older lower sound quality unit. Not that the XDA-2 was bad, but the DC-1 was their next upgraded generation... Yes, of course... that's why I upgraded from an XDA-2 to a DC-1 ;-) So, in my thinking, an XDA-3 should sound at least as good as a current DC-1, and a DC-2 should be still better in some way, though the two markets would appear to be different - I'm just not sure where Emo is going with these ;-) Perhaps the form-factor of the XDA-2 (even better if only 1-rack-space) fits better into a home stereo environment, but otherwise they are awfully "similar" in what they provide, one better in some ways one better in others. I can't say I agree with an XDA-3 omitting headphone and volume control at all. I used both in the XDA-2 exactly as I use them in the DC-1 now, If pretty much everybody else had their XDA-2's going into a nice pre-amp (say, XSP-1) then I can see it, but it was perfectly usable as a standalone "pre-amp" as it was. |
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 20, 2016 19:49:11 GMT -5
Yes, of course... that's why I upgraded from an XDA-2 to a DC-1 ;-) And I presume you did like the sound better in some way? I disagree on 2 fronts. My first line of thought is the XDA-3 and DC-2 should both sound the same, the best Emotiva can make, and come out around the same time. The XDA-2 / DC-1 shoot out was not made to be like say, Schiit that has a ramp up in models, or at least that's not how I ever took it. They came out with the XDA-2 first, plain and simple. They ergonomically tried to make it work for stereo guys and computer guys. Then when the computer market started taking off more, they made a new DAC, and made it more ergonomic for computer guys. At the same time, they improved the sound quality, and in that way, the XDA-2 got left behind. The XDA-2 was still cheaper, so in that way the DC-1 fit the ramp up model. They were very similar otherwise, except in size format. The way I disagree second, is if Emotiva does want a ramp up system that still plays with ergonomics, then it should go the other way around. If there has to be a difference, which again I disagree there should, then computer office guys should get less quality sound, not more. In that environment, headphones and smaller 2 channel systems dominate. But even great headphones and great smaller 2 channel speakers typically cost less than typical great full blown stereo systems (or multi-purpose stereo - theater rooms) where expensive amps, pre-amps, disc machines, large speakers and acoustic treatments reside. If there has to be a choice, the lesser performing / cost DAC should be in the office. The stereo room should dominate. Yes, exactly, there are at least 2 markets. You nailed it. Computer desk systems and full blown stereo systems. And I think that could be the main point many people are missing. Please try to understand it from that standpoint. For your room, I totally get small size, volume control, and headphone output. It's what I would want there too. Please try to put yourself in other shoes. I would buy an XDA-3 for my rack, and a DC-2 for my office. Double sale! True. But that give a little take a little from Emotiva is what I'm fighting (see the XMR thread). Although in this case, I see where ergonomic differences make complete sense. A computer room is not a stereo-theater room. I disagree. See more below. Which is to say, and please correct me if I'm wrong, as a computer room / office desk system using headphones and occasional small sized speakers. But I think they do, and why would they not? If the XDA-3 is racked size, how many in that situation don't have a nice pre-amp of some sort? A pre-amp that probably already has a headphone jack with volume control. Extra headphone jacks are one thing, but I don't want 2 big volume knobs in my system for other family members to be messing with. It's also redundant cost. I'll bet many will say just get an XMC-1 and be done. I could do that (and even plan to when the time is right - no date given because who knows how long the new Gen 3 model will take - but I'm in no rush), but that defeats much of the point of the separate DAC. I guess I'd say then that if Emotiva wants multiple ramp up quality DAC's, then just keep them all small, and not even tease us with a rack sized multiple input non-headphone model. Make the XDA dead. That's what they've basically done and said until Nick's post today. Not what I want to see for sure, but certainly, don't make a rack unit that sounds lesser than a new DC-2. |
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Post by unsound on Sept 20, 2016 19:56:03 GMT -5
Been driving all day and missed this thread. Keep the DAC as it is, but give me a trigger output. Honestly that's all I really want added. +1 not having a trigger was the main reason for selling my DC-1. I liked everything else. A cheaper DAC-only model would be a nice option in the product line too. |
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Sept 20, 2016 20:20:45 GMT -5
As an owner of both XSP-1 & DC-1 I agree with most of the suggestions that have been made here. Boomzilla hit it home for me with the XSP-1's unnecessary tone controls and extra circuitry for mid fi "features". Personally I am very satisfied with the sound quality and performance of it.
That being said, I've always been disappointed with the bass management crossover point controls. They are too approximate to dial in a specific frequency which almost defeats the purpose. Having sub outs is great but I might rethink the crossover control dials or eliminate them completely along with the bass management.
My guess is the customers who are shopping for a balanced preamplifier most likely are purists who will value simplicity and the lack of tone controls and bass management.
Problem for me is that the I am very satisfied a year later after buying both my XSP-1 and my DC-1 bc they mate perfectly with the XPR-1 amps and sound great. For me to upgrade my two channel system the preamp would have to be significantly better than the XSP-1. DACs are temporary technology so I would always be receptive to a DC-2 again assuming it sounded even better than the DC-1.
I tend to change gear frequently and I think it's a huge compliment to Emotiva that I am holding on to my gear with no specific intentions of swapping out or upgrading those essential components in my system.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 20, 2016 20:24:20 GMT -5
Well, the ONE thing we ALL seem to agree on is "better sound quality." Not to say that the existing Stealth DC-1 is a slouch in that area (despite the fact that when I first heard it, I thought that the Emperor had no clothes). But time has marched on, and competition has gotten stiffer.
As to MQA - it probably won't make it in the marketplace due to Meridian's gouging, so having it (or not) isn't a deal breaker for me.
But before I cough up the serious cash that it would take me to get a Schiit Yggdrasil AND a premium preamp, I'd much rather get a spit-shined (figuratively speaking, please!) Emotiva product that was optimized for the best sound.
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Post by sancho89 on Sept 20, 2016 23:25:33 GMT -5
I want to be able to connect a subwoofer. and better sound quality.
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Post by Percussionista on Sept 20, 2016 23:43:11 GMT -5
Yes, of course... that's why I upgraded from an XDA-2 to a DC-1 ;-) And I presume you did like the sound better in some way? Yes, as they say "another veil was lifted" going from the XDA-2 to the DC-1, and yes the XDA-2 is still a nice unit. I had the same "veil lifted" experience going from Xref XRM-6.1 monitor "bookshelf" speakers to the Stealth 6's. I'm really agnostic as far as having new models of XDA and DC be the same high quality or not, just different configurations for different purposes (you mention desk systems vs. dedicated full-blown stereo systems). So, no worries there. I just mentioned what I thought was likely to happen. Anyway, the only "issue" really is whose idea of desk vs. full-blown are we talking about. I grok what you mean, since before I went TV and surround sound oriented (I think my wife had something to do with that ;-)) I only had dedicated stereo systems. In 1969 or thereabouts I bought my first receiver, but after that I have been "full-blown" separates all the way, with my first high-end components being put together 1973-4. Now the dedicated full-blown system is A/V surround and I virtually never use it to listen just to music. So when I say I do most of my listening at the PC, well, I really mean all of my listening, so my "desk system" has become the "full-blown" stereo - it's just now oriented as a near-field (as per recording studios, etc.) or high-end headphone system. So within the parameters of such "near-field" listening, that's my dedicated "full-blown" area. Yes, not the sound-field of a full-room system, but there it is - I do grok it. Although retired from the computer software biz, all of my work for some time now has been in music composition, sheet music publishing, playing in and managing a community orchestra. I do a lot of evaluation of music as potential pieces for my orchestra to play, plus just listening for fun, etc. It's important that I hear the music as clearly and accurately as reasonable. So, for me, in this case, either XDA or DC units can operate as my pre-amp, and I have no need for another "full-blown" pre-amp such as an XSP-1. I suspect this is different than the typical "desk system" use which may be more casual listening, and at lower volumes. That's OK. I'm just describing my particular use. If I really want to sit back and crank it up, or even just get the full sound-stage experience, then sure I can run down stairs and hit the main A/V system. The Vandersteens do give all, except for (once again) that last veil ;-) The Stealth's actually do remove that last veil (in the same A/V room environment) but also lose soundstage (decidedly, not subtle) - I wonder how the T1's and company fare in this regard given their kissin'-cousin design. Price/performance have got to be killer for the new Airmotiv passive line! With the current price of a new pair of Vandersteen 3A sigs going for about 4.5 large, that translates to almost 4 complete 5.0 sets of the new Airmotiv line! |
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Post by GreenKiwi on Sept 22, 2016 0:21:16 GMT -5
To pull and +1 some previously mentioned options:
* I would love to have a good DAC with highres Dirac built into it (with sub out). It could be cool to have multiple profiles, then you could use it for headphones too.
* 1/4 inch headphone jacks
* Balanced headphone output
* HT Bypass (ideally with trigger from XMC-1)
* Trigger so that it can communicate with other devices like the SP-1. Ideally, you could disable inputs that weren't active and input control would just cycle through those inputs too.
* Probably doesn't make sense, but I'm very interested in multibit DACs these days. It's what I'm thinking about upgrading my current DC-1 to
* Audio of IP input (we can dream, but I think that if it's a pro device, it seems like they are becoming more prevalent - AUDIO over IP - REDNET)
I do think that if the DC-2 is targeting the Pro market, there are various different concerns from the computer/headphone market. For example, most pro setups use headphones at times, so I think that having a headphone amp is probably a requirement... but few of those headphones are likely to be balanced. And two outputs is a plus. (Maybe they could have a special cord and mode that allowed the second output to be inverted creating the balanced drive. Or split, right from one and left from the other.)
I'd assume that the XDA-3 would be out there to compete against the likes of the gungnir/multibit and/or the yggy, in either case sound quality is hugely important. If it's going to be a "digital preamp" then it should have HT bypass and allow for the ultimate 2ch listening while still connecting your HT through it. It could also have dirac then. Alternatively, just be a DAC.
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Post by brubacca on Sept 22, 2016 6:11:44 GMT -5
Lonnie,
The only things holding me back from purchasing the DC-1 are Triggers (in and out preferable) and HT Bypass on the analog input. I would put one of these at my TV system without hesitation with these two features.
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Lonnie
Emo Staff 
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Post by Lonnie on Sept 22, 2016 6:46:36 GMT -5
So a lot of good suggestions here and thanks everyone for contributing.
I have to ask a question though. As I read through the various post and things people are asking for I am puzzled about some things. Right now the unit has RCA inputs, XLR and RCA outputs, and various other digital inputs. The back panel is pretty much full. Where would you suggest I add 1/4" headphone jacks, additional analog inputs and outputs for HT bypass, an antenna for wireless and trigger in and out jacks? I'm not beating on anyone here, I am simply curious what you guys had in mind when you suggested them, thats all.
Thanks,
Lonnie
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Post by geebo on Sept 22, 2016 6:55:16 GMT -5
So a lot of good suggestions here and thanks everyone for contributing. I have to ask a question though. As I read through the various post and things people are asking for I am puzzled about some things. Right now the unit has RCA inputs, XLR and RCA outputs, and various other digital inputs. The back panel is pretty much full. Where would you suggest I add 1/4" headphone jacks, additional analog inputs and outputs for HT bypass, an antenna for wireless and trigger in and out jacks? I'm not beating on anyone here, I am simply curious what you guys had in mind when you suggested them, thats all. Thanks, Lonnie On the full rack width 4RU back panel, of course.  |
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
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Post by Lonnie on Sept 22, 2016 7:05:50 GMT -5
Oh OK. now I get it.  Lonnie |
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 22, 2016 16:00:09 GMT -5
Actually, I LIKE the current compact size. And I've got another item for the "wish list" (although I'm pretty sure that I'm just hopefully hoping) - a silver faceplate rather than a black one. And come to think of it, I'd have yet another druther - availability ASAP! In fact, just put me on the pre-order list NOW! Boom |
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