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Post by kiwiemo on Oct 3, 2016 3:01:33 GMT -5
Hi all.
I have and XSP-1 sitting there all by its self, while I wait for the XPA-1s to arrive (2weeks off still). While I'm waiting I have been reading, (as I'm new to this sort of thing,) specs and other such things. The question here is will the XSP-1 and XPA-1s have any major problems with my kef r900 at the 90db sensitivity mark. I was reading about gain on amps, and don't full understanding what I was reading.
Any comments welcome
Cheers
Kiwiemo.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 4:04:39 GMT -5
Wow! You have IMO chosen an absolutely excellent preamp and a monster of a power amp x two! You should have zero impedance or other issues with your KEF R900's. The 90dB sensitivity (aka efficiency) simply tells you how loud the speaker will play at one meter with one watt of power. S&V magazine verifies the sensitivity at 90.5dB's, very close to the spec. The average for a tower like the R900 is about 88-89dB's. The R900 is slightly louder than average. The gain of 29 on the XPA-1 is perfect. The measured impedance by S&V Mag was a minimum of 4.54 ohms at 224Hz, very easy load for the XPA-1. Frequency response was impressively flat from about 55-20,000Hz, excellent! No worries, period! I don't think you could not have selected a better combo for any where near 3 or more times the price of this combo on this planet. New Zealand is on this planet, right?  |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 3, 2016 7:55:20 GMT -5
The XSP-1 is a good preamp. Unfortunately it's not as transparent as the XPA-1 can be. I'm not sure why. It still sounds great though. But in terms of gain you have no problems. I tried using the DC-1 and XSP-1 and tried using the DC-1 direct to the XPA-1. The DC-1 won out.
It's not so much the XSP-1's fault as it is that the XPA-1 is just darn good imo. It could may instead be some sort of synergy thing with the DC-1 though I doubt it.
My upgrade is going to be an Audio Gd master one or Audio Gd HE-1.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 3, 2016 9:48:37 GMT -5
I might (but slightly) disagree with garbulky... The XSP-1, IMHO, is not just a good preamp, but a VERY good one. Are there better on the market? Absolutely - but not for anything less than about 4x the price of the XSP-1. In order to get the very best from your system, I recommend the following: 1. Use the XLR (balanced) outputs from the XSP-1 and use the same inputs on your power amplifiers 2. Do NOT use the XSP-1's tone controls - they completely negate the advantages of the balanced circuitry 3. Do NOT use the XSP-1's bass management (for the same reason) 4. Use the "Reference" or "Bypass" or whatever the heck they call it mode that allows the input to go straight to the output with only volume control in the middle 5. Leave the preamp / amps on ALL THE TIME - If you want to save electricity, switch the amps to "Class AB mode" when they aren't playing And that's it. The slightly "polite" treble of the XSP-1 perfectly balances the slightly "exuberant" dynamics of the XPA-1s, and the combination is dead neutral (exactly what you want from amplification). Used as recommended, you won't get any better sound for less than 10X the price of the gear you have. Happy listening - Boomzilla |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Oct 3, 2016 9:55:45 GMT -5
I had the XSP-1 with the XPA-1s and it was a perfect combo, the only reason why I still don't have the XSP-1 is because I bought the XMC-1 and it made it redundant and frankly they are very similar in sounds quality for stereo listening but the XMC-1 have big advantage with the Dirac room correction.
Enjoy listening your new toys, it's a wonderful setup.
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Post by frenchyfranky on Oct 3, 2016 10:21:20 GMT -5
I might (but slightly) disagree with garbulky... The XSP-1, IMHO, is not just a good preamp, but a VERY good one. Are there better on the market? Absolutely - but not for anything less than about 4x the price of the XSP-1. In order to get the very best from your system, I recommend the following: 1. Use the XLR (balanced) outputs from the XSP-1 and use the same inputs on your power amplifiers 2. Do NOT use the XSP-1's tone controls - they completely negate the advantages of the balanced circuitry 3. Do NOT use the XSP-1's bass management (for the same reason)4. Use the "Reference" or "Bypass" or whatever the heck they call it mode that allows the input to go straight to the output with only volume control in the middle 5. Leave the preamp / amps on ALL THE TIME - If you want to save electricity, switch the amps to "Class AB mode" when they aren't playing And that's it. The slightly "polite" treble of the XSP-1 perfectly balances the slightly "exuberant" dynamics of the XPA-1s, and the combination is dead neutral (exactly what you want from amplification). Used as recommended, you won't get any better sound for less than 10X the price of the gear you have. Happy listening - Boomzilla If you are only using the sub crossover output and let the setting for the main speakers to full , you still keep the advantage of the balance differential circuit for the main speakers. That what I did with the XSP-1, my main speakers were set to full and they were efficient from a frequency start around 45Hz and the sub was crossover at 50Hz |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 3, 2016 10:29:17 GMT -5
BTW in case anybody thinks I am dissing it, all the other standalone preamps I tried weren't as good as the XSP-1. So technically it is the best standalone preamp I've tried. It just so happens that the DC-1 direct using the DC-1 as a preamp is more transparent by a decent amount.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 13:04:53 GMT -5
The XSP-1 is a good preamp. Unfortunately it's not as transparent as the XPA-1 can be. I'm not sure why. It still sounds great though. But in terms of gain you have no problems. I tried using the DC-1 and XSP-1 and tried using the DC-1 direct to the XPA-1. The DC-1 won out. It's not so much the XSP-1's fault as it is that the XPA-1 is just darn good imo. It could may instead be some sort of synergy thing with the DC-1 though I doubt it. My upgrade is going to be an Audio Gd master one or Audio Gd HE-1. Gee, I thought the XSP-1 was a preamp and the XPA-1 was a power amp. How can you determine that the lack of transparency you think you hear is the fault of the XSP-1 and not the XPA-1 or that really what you think you hear as lack of transparency is your hallucination/imagination? Kiwiemo, I would ignore these folks who think they can distinguish minute sound differences and pick out in a complete system that what they think they hear is attributable to one specific component in a chain of components, connectors, cables, speaker wires and other accessories. Most of them think this amazing ability makes them more discriminating and seem more audiophilish (my own word) than other common folk who don't have good ears or resolving enough equipment. I would celebrate and enjoy your new XSP-1 and XPA-1, forget getting a separate DAC like the DC-1 as the DAC in your XSP-1 is just fine. Sometimes tone controls adjustments or the use of equalizers can correct frequency response issues due to your speakers performance in you specific room. Some think the use of tone controls or EQ is not pure and is audio heresy. The room your speakers are in does in fact have an effect on how your speakers sound. In 99.9% of rooms and systems I would consider the XSP-1 and XPA-1 to be ruler flat. Choosing high quality music sources, making sure your speakers are properly placed in your room and having proper room absorption material will do more to insure you have great sound, more than any nitpicking about high quality preamp or amps. You will never wonder if you have enough power with that amp or fine sound quality with that preamp. Just my honest opinion which I usually keep under wraps.  |
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Post by monkumonku on Oct 3, 2016 13:18:00 GMT -5
The XSP-1 is a good preamp. Unfortunately it's not as transparent as the XPA-1 can be. I'm not sure why. It still sounds great though. But in terms of gain you have no problems. I tried using the DC-1 and XSP-1 and tried using the DC-1 direct to the XPA-1. The DC-1 won out. It's not so much the XSP-1's fault as it is that the XPA-1 is just darn good imo. It could may instead be some sort of synergy thing with the DC-1 though I doubt it. My upgrade is going to be an Audio Gd master one or Audio Gd HE-1. Gee, I thought the XSP-1 was a preamp and the XPA-1 was a power amp. How can you determine that the lack of transparency you think you hear is the fault of the XSP-1 and not the XPA-1 or that really what you think you hear as lack of transparency is your hallucination/imagination? Kiwiemo, I would ignore these folks who think they can distinguish minute sound differences and pick out in a complete system that what they think they hear is attributable to one specific component in a chain of components, connectors, cables, speaker wires and other accessories. Most of them think this amazing ability makes them more discriminating and seem more audiophilish (my own word) than other common folk who don't have good ears or resolving enough equipment. I would celebrate and enjoy your new XSP-1 and XPA-1, forget getting a separate DAC like the DC-1 as the DAC in your XSP-1 is just fine. Sometimes tone controls adjustments or the use of equalizers can correct frequency response issues due to your speakers performance in you specific room. Some think the use of tone controls or EQ is not pure and is audio heresy. The room your speakers are in does in fact have an effect on how your speakers sound. In 99.9% of rooms and systems I would consider the XSP-1 and XPA-1 to be ruler flat. Choosing high quality music sources, making sure your speakers are properly placed in your room and having proper room absorption material will do more to insure you have great sound, more than any nitpicking about high quality preamp or amps. You will never wonder if you have enough power with that amp or fine sound quality with that preamp. Just my honest opinion which I usually keep under wraps. Agree, except for your statement about the DAC in the XSP-1. The XSP-1 is fully analog and has no DAC. But going back to the OP, this is a superb preamp/amp combination. Synergy will be just fine with your speakers. Judge with YOUR own ears, and don't listen to a bunch of back seat drivers in the Lounge who have nothing better to do than endlessly pontificate like they were C3P0 or something!!! You could spend thousands more on a preamp/amp combo and it will not sound even minutely proportionately better. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 13:39:35 GMT -5
Agree, except for your statement about the DAC in the XSP-1. The XSP-1 is fully analog and has no DAC. But going back to the OP, this is a superb preamp/amp combination. Synergy will be just fine with your speakers. Judge with YOUR own ears, and don't listen to a bunch of back seat drivers in the Lounge who have nothing better to do than endlessly pontificate like they were C3P0 or something!!! You could spend thousands more on a preamp/amp combo and it will not sound even minutely proportionately better. Thanks very much Monku for catching my obvious error on the XSP-1 analog preamp! |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 3, 2016 14:57:53 GMT -5
The XSP-1 is a good preamp. Unfortunately it's not as transparent as the XPA-1 can be. I'm not sure why. It still sounds great though. But in terms of gain you have no problems. I tried using the DC-1 and XSP-1 and tried using the DC-1 direct to the XPA-1. The DC-1 won out. It's not so much the XSP-1's fault as it is that the XPA-1 is just darn good imo. It could may instead be some sort of synergy thing with the DC-1 though I doubt it. My upgrade is going to be an Audio Gd master one or Audio Gd HE-1. Gee, I thought the XSP-1 was a preamp and the XPA-1 was a power amp. How can you determine that the lack of transparency you think you hear is the fault of the XSP-1 and not the XPA-1 or that really what you think you hear as lack of transparency is your hallucination/imagination? Would you like a response or did you quote me to inform the reader to stay away from Mr hallucinogenic man?   |
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Post by Wideawake on Oct 3, 2016 15:14:22 GMT -5
I don't know enough about the architecture of the XSP-1 but I think I read somewhere that if the treble or bass knobs are engaged then the signal is no longer balanced and you will get an unbalanced signal. If that is true then that might have been the reason for Boom to warn the OP to not use those knobs so as to maintain a balanced signal.
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Post by frenchyfranky on Oct 3, 2016 16:58:57 GMT -5
I don't know enough about the architecture of the XSP-1 but I think I read somewhere that if the treble or bass knobs are engaged then the signal is no longer balanced and you will get an unbalanced signal. If that is true then that might have been the reason for Boom to warn the OP to not use those knobs so as to maintain a balanced signal. Absolutely, must use direct mode to benefits of differential balanced |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 3, 2016 17:10:27 GMT -5
... I would ignore these folks who think they can distinguish minute sound differences and pick out in a complete system that what they think they hear is attributable to one specific component in a chain of components, connectors, cables, speaker wires and other accessories... To which I'd reply - "…when you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes If the system is not changed but for a single component - and differences are heard - then those differences MUST be from the single component. This isn't obscure. This isn't rocket science or voodoo - it's plain & simple scientific method. How ANYONE can disagree with such a prima-facia fact is beyond me. This is no "amazing ability" nor are those who hear a difference in any way gifted or talented. So I call unequivocal BS on the idea that listeners cannot hear differences. If none were audible, we could all buy a plastic home-theater-in-a-box and live happily ever after.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 21:18:36 GMT -5
If the system is not changed but for a single component - and differences are heard - then those differences MUST be from the single component.That is presuming that differences between two high quality stereo preamps and two high quality/high power power amps can actually be clearly heard at reasonable levels. That is most times questionable. However, for the moment let's say you in your room do make a change in the preamp and now you hear a difference as you describe as a slightly "polite" treble (I presume you mean the treble level has decreased slightly). How do you know that the preamp before the change was perfectly flat? That answer is you don't! The same for the power amp and the power amp you had before the change. You are making presumption that your evaluation was based on a perfect neutral system in your room in the first place. Differences you think you heard at your friends house or a dealers don't count. Your explanation at first might sound logical to some but is only a paper exercise and doesn't hold any water in the real world in your room.
Please give all the detailed info on all components and accessories (including optional preamp and power amp) of the system in your room before your conclusions. Perhaps you might have photos of your A/B changes? I call touche/BS! I'm sorry to the OP, kiwiemo, about getting into a side discussion here about the XSP-1 and XPA-1 being perhaps less than perfect. Other than some good suggestions above I would disregard the sound comments about you new components, they are great! I will not post in this thread about these issues further and suggest we who disagree continue this side discussion in another thread.Please don't waste lots of money on expensive cables and wire. Let us know how your system sounds when you get it set up.
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Oct 3, 2016 21:51:00 GMT -5
Should sound great!
I have: XDA-2 -> XSP-1 -> XPA-1Ls and I'm more than happy!
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Post by kiwiemo on Oct 3, 2016 23:31:10 GMT -5
Wow! You have IMO chosen an absolutely excellent preamp and a monster of a power amp x two! You should have zero impedance or other issues with your KEF R900's. The 90dB sensitivity (aka efficiency) simply tells you how loud the speaker will play at one meter with one watt of power. S&V magazine verifies the sensitivity at 90.5dB's, very close to the spec. The average for a tower like the R900 is about 88-89dB's. The R900 is slightly louder than average. The gain of 29 on the XPA-1 is perfect. The measured impedance by S&V Mag was a minimum of 4.54 ohms at 224Hz, very easy load for the XPA-1. Frequency response was impressively flat from about 55-20,000Hz, excellent! No worries, period! I don't think you could not have selected a better combo for any where near 3 or more times the price of this combo on this planet. New Zealand is on this planet, right? haha yes very much so on the planet, but given the cost of getting things here you might as well be on the moon. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 23:40:18 GMT -5
Wow! You have IMO chosen an absolutely excellent preamp and a monster of a power amp x two! You should have zero impedance or other issues with your KEF R900's. The 90dB sensitivity (aka efficiency) simply tells you how loud the speaker will play at one meter with one watt of power. S&V magazine verifies the sensitivity at 90.5dB's, very close to the spec. The average for a tower like the R900 is about 88-89dB's. The R900 is slightly louder than average. The gain of 29 on the XPA-1 is perfect. The measured impedance by S&V Mag was a minimum of 4.54 ohms at 224Hz, very easy load for the XPA-1. Frequency response was impressively flat from about 55-20,000Hz, excellent! No worries, period! I don't think you could not have selected a better combo for any where near 3 or more times the price of this combo on this planet. New Zealand is on this planet, right? haha yes very much so on the planet, but given the cost of getting things here you might as well be on the moon. Oh, now I remember, New Zealand is on this planet, but down on the bottom! I always have wondered why Christ put his Church way down there on the South Island of New Zealand? |
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Oct 3, 2016 23:43:29 GMT -5
To the OP, congrats on your new purchase! XSP-1 is the most Nuetral and revealing preamp I've had in my system. From reading first hand reviews from real users on this and other forums I've noticed an unusually high satisfaction rate on the XPA-1 amps. Given the differential reference design used XLR cables for a true balanced connection and enjoy your KEFs! I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Regarding the post about not being revealing enough, I strongly feel differently. I have both DC-1 and XSP-1 in my system. Have used them both as balanced preamps. I think the XSP-1 sounds noticably better than the DC-1 as a preamp. Hey subjectively we all hear differently. I concur that each unit sounds different from the other. My preference is for the XSP but that's subjective.
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Post by kiwiemo on Oct 4, 2016 0:52:45 GMT -5
haha yes very much so on the planet, but given the cost of getting things here you might as well be on the moon. Oh, now I remember, New Zealand is on this planet, but down on the bottom! I always have wondered why Christ put his Church way down there on the South Island of New Zealand? And I live 4.5 hours south of Christchurch, not to many places you can go to get further south than that, not by choice anyway. |
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