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Post by kiwiemo on Oct 4, 2016 0:57:00 GMT -5
Thanks every one, some good reading there, probably should have added, for what it might be worth I have a marantz sa8005 which is not balanced. I'm going to run the XSP-1 and the XPA-1s with the XLR.
Chur
Kiwiemo
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Post by kiwiemo on Oct 4, 2016 1:46:46 GMT -5
I might (but slightly) disagree with garbulky... The XSP-1, IMHO, is not just a good preamp, but a VERY good one. Are there better on the market? Absolutely - but not for anything less than about 4x the price of the XSP-1. In order to get the very best from your system, I recommend the following: 1. Use the XLR (balanced) outputs from the XSP-1 and use the same inputs on your power amplifiers 2. Do NOT use the XSP-1's tone controls - they completely negate the advantages of the balanced circuitry 3. Do NOT use the XSP-1's bass management (for the same reason) 4. Use the "Reference" or "Bypass" or whatever the heck they call it mode that allows the input to go straight to the output with only volume control in the middle 5. Leave the preamp / amps on ALL THE TIME - If you want to save electricity, switch the amps to "Class AB mode" when they aren't playing And that's it. The slightly "polite" treble of the XSP-1 perfectly balances the slightly "exuberant" dynamics of the XPA-1s, and the combination is dead neutral (exactly what you want from amplification). Used as recommended, you won't get any better sound for less than 10X the price of the gear you have. Happy listening - Boomzilla thanks for that. One question though, when you say leave them on do you mean "on" or "standby"? I'm not to worried about power use. |
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Post by kiwiemo on Oct 4, 2016 2:05:10 GMT -5
If the system is not changed but for a single component - and differences are heard - then those differences MUST be from the single component.That is presuming that differences between two high quality stereo preamps and two high quality/high power power amps can actually be clearly heard at reasonable levels. That is most times questionable. However, for the moment let's say you in your room do make a change in the preamp and now you hear a difference as you describe as a slightly "polite" treble (I presume you mean the treble level has decreased slightly). How do you know that the preamp before the change was perfectly flat? That answer is you don't! The same for the power amp and the power amp you had before the change. You are making presumption that your evaluation was based on a perfect neutral system in your room in the first place. Differences you think you heard at your friends house or a dealers don't count. Your explanation at first might sound logical to some but is only a paper exercise and doesn't hold any water in the real world in your room.
Please give all the detailed info on all components and accessories (including optional preamp and power amp) of the system in your room before your conclusions. Perhaps you might have photos of your A/B changes? I call touche/BS! I'm sorry to the OP, kiwiemo, about getting into a side discussion here about the XSP-1 and XPA-1 being perhaps less than perfect. Other than some good suggestions above I would disregard the sound comments about you new components, they are great! I will not post in this thread about these issues further and suggest we who disagree continue this side discussion in another thread.Please don't waste lots of money on expensive cables and wire. Let us know how your system sounds when you get it set up.  No pricey cables coming this way, the the right ones for the right job. I didn't mean to start a war, but I gets people talking  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 4, 2016 2:05:35 GMT -5
I generally leave solid-state electronics in their fully on position when not in use. Many others don't. I've always thought that leaving the equipment on has several advantages:
1. Less thermal stress on the components - every time they are turned off/on, they shrink / expand - steady-state is better
2. They sound better
YMMV
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Post by frenchyfranky on Oct 4, 2016 12:54:16 GMT -5
Mmmmmmm , I'm not with you for this last one Boomzilla , but as you just said "you always thought" Not me, the warm up for ss amp is about 10min and the sound isn't much different from cold. And for the life span it is more damageable for the caps to stay always on. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 4, 2016 13:09:15 GMT -5
Mmmmmmm , I'm not with you for this last one Boomzilla , but as you just said "you always thought" Not me, the warm up for ss amp is about 10min and the sound isn't much different from cold. And for the life span it is more damageable for the caps to stay always on. I wouldn't argue with you at all, frenchyfranky - I know some stores that shut it all down at the end of the day and others that leave it all on. Ultimately, it may not make much difference. The main two advantages to leaving it off when you're not using it are: 1. Less susceptibility to lightning strikes & power surges and 2. Power savings As to capacitor life, I'm not convinced that it makes much difference with modern caps. The older the equipment, the more delicate the capacitors. Truth be told, I sometimes don't leave anything on but the preamp, and even that could probably be turned off without any significant ill effect. My main concern is about leaving power amps on - If one decided to fail catastrophically, it might take out some (expensive) speakers with it. I'd rather have to replace an amp rather than amp AND speakers. And in fact, one of the amps I've owned almost did take out a speaker. The amp was a Vacuum Tube Logic Compact 100 tube mono-block with a transformer short. It played fine for about an hour, and then we went into the kitchen for a break. We heard what sounded like a truck running into the house, but found nothing amiss outside. When we came back in, the amp pulsed the speaker again, and we identified the problem as the amp. The repair shop confirmed the transformer short. Fortunately, the speaker wasn't damaged. So tube equipment is ALWAYS turned off at the end of the listening session. Solid-state is usually (but not always) left on (except for the power amp). |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 4, 2016 14:19:21 GMT -5
Mmmmmmm , I'm not with you for this last one Boomzilla , but as you just said "you always thought" Not me, the warm up for ss amp is about 10min and the sound isn't much different from cold. Big Dan has a different opinion about the length of time. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 4, 2016 18:59:33 GMT -5
Mmmmmmm , I'm not with you for this last one Boomzilla , but as you just said "you always thought" Not me, the warm up for ss amp is about 10min and the sound isn't much different from cold. Big Dan has a different opinion about the length of time. This one; After I've had a unit for a bit, I give it 15 to 20 minutes to warm up before "critical " listening. Power amplifiers in particular need to warm up a bit to reach thermal equilibrium and allow the bias to settle. The improvements are subtle, but real. Don't yell at me if you don't agree. This is just my opinion. I thought I would test this out, so I turned on the XPA-1L's, slipped the trusty pyrometer probe onto the heat sink, left them on but with no music paying and waited until they reached a stable temperature for more than 15 seconds. That took about 7 minutes in Class AB with a rise of about 3oC over ambient. So then I played some music and the temp climbed rather quickly (~2 minutes) by another 4oC, then sat stable. So waiting the 7 minutes to warm up achieved maybe a ramp up in better listening for a maximum of 2 minutes. But if I turned it on and played music straight away I suspect (didn't test) that maybe 1 minute would be enough to reach the same temperature. My audio rack is open on 4 sides in large room with lots of ventilation. Would be interesting to compare with others how long their gear needs to reach operating temp. My process is to turn on the XSP-1 which daisy chain triggers the power amps, then find a CD and pop it into the ERC-3. So I probably end up with a minute or so warm up without even thinking about it. Maybe that's why I've never heard a difference. Cheers Gary |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 4, 2016 19:38:38 GMT -5
Big Dan has a different opinion about the length of time. This one; After I've had a unit for a bit, I give it 15 to 20 minutes to warm up before "critical " listening. Power amplifiers in particular need to warm up a bit to reach thermal equilibrium and allow the bias to settle. The improvements are subtle, but real. Don't yell at me if you don't agree. This is just my opinion. I thought I would test this out, so I turned on the XPA-1L's, slipped the trusty pyrometer probe onto the heat sink, left them on but with no music paying and waited until they reached a stable temperature for more than 15 seconds. That took about 7 minutes in Class AB with a rise of about 3oC over ambient. So then I played some music and the temp climbed rather quickly (~2 minutes) by another 4oC, then sat stable. So waiting the 7 minutes to warm up achieved maybe a ramp up in better listening for a maximum of 2 minutes. But if I turned it on and played music straight away I suspect (didn't test) that maybe 1 minute would be enough to reach the same temperature. My audio rack is open on 4 sides in large room with lots of ventilation. Would be interesting to compare with others how long their gear needs to reach operating temp. My process is to turn on the XSP-1 which daisy chain triggers the power amps, then find a CD and pop it into the ERC-3. So I probably end up with a minute or so warm up without even thinking about it. Maybe that's why I've never heard a difference. Cheers Gary Yeah that's the post. I was wrong about the time he mentioned. My bad. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Oct 4, 2016 23:26:07 GMT -5
Mmmmmmm , I'm not with you for this last one Boomzilla , but as you just said "you always thought" Not me, the warm up for ss amp is about 10min and the sound isn't much different from cold. Big Dan has a different opinion about the length of time. I must admit for class A operating at 35w or 60w the warm up time would be a little bit more. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 5, 2016 0:43:18 GMT -5
Big Dan has a different opinion about the length of time. I must admit for class A operating at 35w or 60w the warm up time would be a little bit more. It just gets more complicated, for me anyway. No doubt the XPA-1L runs hotter in Class A than it does in Class AB, but the real question (in regards to warm up time) is, is the Class AB warmed up temperature (say 3oC over ambient) enough for Class A to sound its best? Or does it have to get to the Class A operating temperature? Which I haven't actually measured but I'd guess is around 10oC above ambient. Whilst I understand the capacitor settling time, maybe the temperature warm up sound changes are more noticeable in areas where the temperature gets really low, like below 0oC. Here indoors, near the coast in Sydney, it doesn't get much below 5oC even in winter. So no real dramatic temperature differences between stone cold at turn on to warmed up ready to listen. Cheers Gary |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Oct 5, 2016 2:11:17 GMT -5
I must admit for class A operating at 35w or 60w the warm up time would be a little bit more. It just gets more complicated, for me anyway. No doubt the XPA-1L runs hotter in Class A than it does in Class AB, but the real question (in regards to warm up time) is, is the Class AB warmed up temperature (say 3oC over ambient) enough for Class A to sound its best? Or does it have to get to the Class A operating temperature? Which I haven't actually measured but I'd guess is around 10oC above ambient. Whilst I understand the capacitor settling time, maybe the temperature warm up sound changes are more noticeable in areas where the temperature gets really low, like below 0oC. Here indoors, near the coast in Sydney, it doesn't get much below 5oC even in winter. So no real dramatic temperature differences between stone cold at turn on to warmed up ready to listen. Cheers Gary For me warm up in class AB is very subtle for the sound quality, in class A I notice a valuable difference, and for sure with vacuum tube amplifier it is night and day. Naturally the warm up time would be directly related to the temperature differential. |
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Post by Leonard on Oct 6, 2016 23:00:46 GMT -5
I generally leave solid-state electronics in their fully on position when not in use. Many others don't. I've always thought that leaving the equipment on has several advantages: 1. Less thermal stress on the components - every time they are turned off/on, they shrink / expand - steady-state is better 2. They sound better YMMV In my case, YWMV. Your Wife may vary. Mine insists on switching off all components when not in use. Fortunately, my XSP-1 Gen2 and XPA-5 Gen2 performs excellently in as little as 5 minutes after switching them on. |
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Post by deltadube on Oct 7, 2016 14:04:06 GMT -5
Oh, now I remember, New Zealand is on this planet, but down on the bottom! I always have wondered why Christ put his Church way down there on the South Island of New Zealand? And I live 4.5 hours south of Christchurch, not to many places you can go to get further south than that, not by choice anyway. is that like the end of the world ... summers coming eh! think you will love your new set up.. I'm running the same thing in gen 1 its great.. |
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Post by kiwiemo on Oct 8, 2016 4:24:30 GMT -5
And I live 4.5 hours south of Christchurch, not to many places you can go to get further south than that, not by choice anyway. is that like the end of the world ... summers coming eh! think you will love your new set up.. I'm running the same thing in gen 1 its great.. some might even call it middle earth. Either way it's still a long way to get stuff to. Summer is coming! |
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