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Post by brutiarti on Oct 4, 2016 12:47:05 GMT -5
A few inches or toe in may help. It all depends. But I found that different electronics need slight adjustments to sound right. True. In my case no toe in. But pulling the speakers 2 inches from the rear wall made things better after replacing my preamp |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 4, 2016 12:59:21 GMT -5
Yes. Not every time though granted, I did imply it. But I find it helps. Eh I don't know much about cables. I don't see a reason why they should sound different. Not saying there is or isn't. It's just not something I spend time thinking about. Well it's simpler than that. Hook everything up you want. Then figure out the best position. Your speakers can't be in more than two places at the same time. If you change something, figure it out again. From reading your prior reviews and comments, it seems like you hear minute and perhaps not so minute differences in equipment. So if there is any audible difference between any component in the system, why would it not be as valid to say speaker positioning makes a difference with those, as it does with DAC's? Are you talking about cables? I don't think I hear minute stuff. But I am able to hear subtle details. I'm not a golden ear or whatever that is. |
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Post by monkumonku on Oct 4, 2016 13:04:05 GMT -5
From reading your prior reviews and comments, it seems like you hear minute and perhaps not so minute differences in equipment. So if there is any audible difference between any component in the system, why would it not be as valid to say speaker positioning makes a difference with those, as it does with DAC's? Are you talking about cables? I don't think I hear minute stuff. But I am able to hear subtle details. I'm not a golden ear or whatever that is. Well it could be cables. What I'm saying is anything in your system for which you detect an audible difference between it and a different item of the same type. If your ears detect a difference, then wouldn't it follow if there is optimal speaker positioning for different DAC's, there would be optimal speaker positioning for the other components, too? |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 4, 2016 14:11:01 GMT -5
Are you talking about cables? I don't think I hear minute stuff. But I am able to hear subtle details. I'm not a golden ear or whatever that is. Well it could be cables. What I'm saying is anything in your system for which you detect an audible difference between it and a different item of the same type. If your ears detect a difference, then wouldn't it follow if there is optimal speaker positioning for different DAC's, there would be optimal speaker positioning for the other components, too? Your point is that all these must have different positions so how do you choose one when it must be different ones that are best for each gear? Since they output to the same speakers when it is all hooked up choose the best position you want. If you put in something new...you'll have to experiment again. Sometimes it'll be the same. Lately, the gear I've tried, it's been that the positions have been very close to each other. Now....if you get really nit picky about it...say an analog turn table played through the XSP-1 may have a different optimal position than say a DAC played through the XSP-1. I actually had that happen to me. I used the DC-1 as a DAC and then I used my Asus Xonar essence ST analog out to the DC-1 analog in. Here, I was using the Xonar essence as the DAC and the DC-1 just as a preamp. The optimal position for the Asus was slightly different vs the DC-1. I ended up just optimising it for what I use the most which was the DC-1. (If you have further questions let's take it off the thread. I am going off topic here.) |
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Post by saru on Oct 7, 2016 15:52:23 GMT -5
I've got the 105 down in the theater system now. Running both HDMI to XMC-1 for digital processing there, and XLRs to the balanced inputs for pass-through. In this way, I can easily switch between the two inputs using the 105 as the source and am able to compare the XMC-1 DAC to the Oppo DAC, do I understand that correctly?
Also, can I get a confirmation whether the signal passed through the balanced input does or does not receive bass management? Manual only says no to digital processing, so I wasn't sure if that included bass management or not.
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Post by craigl59 on Oct 7, 2016 17:08:53 GMT -5
saru:
Your very well-done comparison is helpful to me as I have been using 105D, 103D, RME, and DC-1 DACS for some time and comparing their musical quality. I have always enjoyed the Sabre 32 converters in the 105D and they seem more accurate and musical than the 103D (and the UMC-200 as well).
Recently, however, I have been doing REW checks on the 105D feeds and have found a surprising problem with the pre -- my specific unit has a severe null at 2K. The chain has been checked and it is definitely the fault of the Oppo, not some other component, Like you, am using JRiver to the Oppo and from there to Emotiva monoblocks.
Wonder if you have had a chance to check the EQ response from your two units and can confirm whether my situation is a one-off or is typical of the Sabre 32.
Again, your comparison is splendid.
Craig
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Post by saru on Oct 7, 2016 17:32:48 GMT -5
saru: Your very well-done comparison is helpful to me as I have been using 105D, 103D, RME, and DC-1 DACS for some time and comparing their musical quality. I have always enjoyed the Sabre 32 converters in the 105D and they seem more accurate and musical than the 103D (and the UMC-200 as well). Recently, however, I have been doing REW checks on the 105D feeds and have found a surprising problem with the pre -- my specific unit has a severe null at 2K. The chain has been checked and it is definitely the fault of the Oppo, not some other component, Like you, am using JRiver to the Oppo and from there to Emotiva monoblocks. Wonder if you have had a chance to check the EQ response from your two units and can confirm whether my situation is a one-off or is typical of the Sabre 32. Again, your comparison is splendid. Craig Thanks for the kind feedback! I had not gone as far as breaking out REW for my office setup, as I figured room problems would mask any differences between the two units. I never did figure out why I seemed to have gain differences between the 105D and the Gumby, but if it helps any, I'm doing A-B between 105D and XMC-1 right now and there is no discernible gain difference. |
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Post by qdtjni on Oct 7, 2016 17:34:21 GMT -5
Did you try readjusting your speaker position for the Gumby? Two different DACS will give slightly different optimal positions. You know, speaker position should have to do with with room accoustics. If you need to move your speakers because of changed electronics, something was wrong from the beginning or is wrong with new electronics. I guess that can happen when you're trying to tune your system by changing electronics... |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 7, 2016 17:47:08 GMT -5
Did you try readjusting your speaker position for the Gumby? Two different DACS will give slightly different optimal positions. You know, speaker position should have to do with with room accoustics. If you need to move your speakers because of changed electronics, something was wrong from the beginning or is wrong with new electronics. I guess that can happen when you're trying to tune your system by changing electronics... Maybe, but I found some slight tweaks help. For instance a DAC of lesser resolution may be positioned to the best of your ability. But now a new DAC that may have better resolution may give you new information to be able to make a "more informed" change. Like changing the focus on a camera when the lens is muddy versus razor sharp, you will arrive at two different focuses because you can see better now. A similar but not quite the same happens when you introduce room treatments in to the room. The speaker positions need to be optimized after the addition of room treatments. |
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Post by qdtjni on Oct 7, 2016 17:58:45 GMT -5
You know, speaker position should have to do with with room accoustics. If you need to move your speakers because of changed electronics, something was wrong from the beginning or is wrong with new electronics. I guess that can happen when you're trying to tune your system by changing electronics... Maybe, but I found some slight tweaks help. For instance a DAC of lesser resolution may be positioned to the best of your ability. But now a new DAC that may have better resolution may give you new information to be able to make a "more informed" change. Like changing the focus on a camera when the lens is muddy versus razor sharp, you will arrive at two different focuses because you can see better now. A similar but not quite the same happens when you introduce room treatments in to the room. The speaker positions need to be optimized after the addition of room treatments. I'm all for a changes in the room accoustics affecting the placement of speakers but electronics? |
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Post by craigl59 on Oct 7, 2016 18:38:07 GMT -5
saru:
Would be very interested in your A/B reactions to the 105D and XMC-1. Am particularly interested in the relative quality of the converters as I am toying with the idea of buying an XMC-1 now while they are discounted.
BTW, have had a good amount of customer service experience with Oppo and it has ranged from helpful to insulting. Depends on the agent, I think.
Craig
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Post by saru on Oct 21, 2016 21:26:36 GMT -5
Well this has been a long time coming! I'm waiting at the airport for my wife's flight to come in, so this is as good a time as any to jot down a few thoughts on my *very quick, not thorough at all* DAC comparison of the Oppo 105D vs the XMC-1. Since I only had a couple hours to fool around with equipment a couple weekends ago, I simply unplugged the 103D that was connected as digital source to the XMC-1 (via HDMI) and routed those cords to the 105D. Then I connected the XLR outputs on the 105D to the balanced inputs on the XMC-1. This way, I could easily switch between 105-source-as-digital and 105-source-as-analog. I just did A-B listening via Tidal streaming for a few tracks, and for both sources I set the sound mode to Stereo. The short verdict is that I preferred the sound of the XMC-1's DAC over that of the 105D... music being processed by the XMC just sounded cleaner with less harshness on the high-end and better balance on the low-end. HOWEVER.... I did not switch out of Dirac for one of the presets, so I'll admit to the XMC DAC having an unfair advantage (since it's my understanding that analog inputs to the XMC do not receive Dirac processing... someone correct me if I'm wrong). Granted, I did still like the sound of the 105D (whether it was in my theater or in my office), and I feel that I might've had a better experience with it if I had been working under a manually-equalized preset instead.
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Post by yves on Oct 22, 2016 0:27:51 GMT -5
Disable the EQ when comparing DACs, make sure DACs are level matched, get professional about acoustic treatments in your room. Else, it is worse than apples and oranges... more like, compare a ladder to a spoon.
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Post by vneal on Oct 22, 2016 8:38:14 GMT -5
The Oppo 105 DAC is highly reviewed and I use the 105 for CDs and DVDs. The Oppo dac sounds dry to me. Personally look at Mitek DAC, preamp,head phone amp and phono preamp for 2K. It can and does compete against all comers. Check the reviews
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Post by yves on Oct 22, 2016 13:43:14 GMT -5
The Oppo 105 DAC is highly review and I use the 105 for CDs and DVDs. The Oppo dac sounds dry to me. Personally look at Mitek DAC, preamp,head phone amp and phono preamp for 2K. It can and does compete against all comers. Check the reviews In terms of feature set, sure, the Mytek Brooklyn looks to be strong value. But from a purely "no frills" DAC standpoint, the much more affordable Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC Supreme, that I currently own, with its two Sabre ES9018 chips (one for each channel), to me, personally, sonically destroys the Brooklyn. Add to that the fact the MiniMax Supreme has already been in existence for two whole years longer than the Brooklyn, and immediately you will see why I am still not that impressed with the Mytek. |
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Post by vneal on Oct 22, 2016 15:56:06 GMT -5
I dont see it. It will be my next purchase
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Post by Soup on Oct 22, 2016 16:08:15 GMT -5
Can't wait to read your review after purchase.
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Post by saru on Oct 22, 2016 17:01:10 GMT -5
Disable the EQ when comparing DACs, make sure DACs are level matched, get professional about acoustic treatments in your room. Else, it is worse than apples and oranges... more like, compare a ladder to a spoon. Agreed. If I were doing a more thorough comparison rather than a quick "hey let's try this out really quick before I box 'er up and return to the store", I would have taken more time to properly set up. Though at least in the big room, I do have the basic room treatments in place (GIK tri-traps in the front corners and 2x4 panels at the first sidewall reflection points). |
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Post by hosko on Oct 22, 2016 19:46:25 GMT -5
You cant really compare the the two if the output level is different, the louder one will always sound better. For best results playback some noise, link below. Then measure the output level going to the amp and make sure they are the same. Ideally you measure the level at the speaker but I prefer to not listen to noise/tone. If you don't have a multimeter a db meter at the listening position will be close enough. Don't reduce the level on the DAC but use the pre-amp. archive.org/details/TenMinutesOfWhiteNoisePinkNoiseAndBrownianNoise |
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Post by yves on Oct 23, 2016 12:33:00 GMT -5
I dont see it. It will be my next purchase It is your basic right not to see it I guess.  |
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