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Post by hosko on Oct 13, 2016 18:25:38 GMT -5
I understand that DSD is as close to analog as you can get in the digital world. But studios don't record in DSD they record in 24bit 192kHz. I am assuming that the DAW would also be working at this so that no transcoding is done during the mix. So what would be any benefit to later converting to DSD?
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Post by jmilton on Oct 13, 2016 19:02:14 GMT -5
I understand that DSD is as close to analog as you can get in the digital world. But studios don't record in DSD they record in 24bit 192kHz. I am assuming that the DAW would also be working at this so that no transcoding is done during the mix. So what would be any benefit to later converting to DSD? Cookie Morenco records in DSD. Edits in analog. |
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Post by hosko on Oct 13, 2016 19:06:53 GMT -5
that makes sense then, do you know his workflow?
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Post by Loop 7 on Oct 13, 2016 19:14:12 GMT -5
Paul McGowen of PS Audio has written numerous posts on DSD. PS Audio's high end DAC upscales everything to DSD so there must be sonic merit in it.
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Post by hosko on Oct 13, 2016 19:21:17 GMT -5
Paul McGowen of PS Audio has written numerous posts on DSD. PS Audio's high end DAC upscales everything to DSD so there must be sonic merit in it. upscaling would offer limited improvements, you can't magically invent more information then what was there initially. Im guessing its so the DAC only has to work with DSD. Its why in a tv facility we convert everything to HD, makes it easier when you only have to handle one format. It only makes real sense if its DSD through the entire pipeline from record to playback |
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Post by Loop 7 on Oct 13, 2016 19:39:57 GMT -5
Paul McGowen of PS Audio has written numerous posts on DSD. PS Audio's high end DAC upscales everything to DSD so there must be sonic merit in it. upscaling would offer limited improvements, you can't magically invent more information then what was there initially. Im guessing its so the DAC only has to work with DSD. Its why in a tv facility we convert everything to HD, makes it easier when you only have to handle one format. It only makes real sense if its DSD through the entire pipeline from record to playback I thought that way until I read the engineering rationale for doing so. I've heard the DAC a few times... simply stunning. PS Audio Direct Stream Review |
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Post by jmilton on Oct 13, 2016 20:04:14 GMT -5
that makes sense then, do you know his workflow? Check her out at Blue Coast Records😉 There are some free surround and quad DSD files for you to download so you can see what the fuss is all about. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 14, 2016 5:52:35 GMT -5
Some questions, please, gents -
My understanding is that if I download a DSD file, and then play it through JRiver Media Center 22 - over Ethernet DLNA - to my Oppo BDP-105 that somewhere in the chain (Ethernet over DLNA?) the file is automatically converted back to PCM and that the stream that reaches the Oppo will no longer be a DSD file. True?
Even if JRiver manages to get the file to the Oppo, I don't want it converted to analog there. Instead, I want it passed through its coaxial digital output to the Schiit Gungnar Multibit OR to the Cary SI-300.2D (both of which can do DSD conversion without reverting to PCM). Will the Oppo pass DSD streams without conversion?
Finally, the Cary has the potential to convert PCM streams to DSD. Why would there be any advantage to this? It would seem that one could never get higher quality than the PCM file one started with, regardless of additional processing. True or false?
Pardon my ignorance, but before I spend half a day doing internet research I thought I'd "ask-the-experts."
Thanks - Boomzilla
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Post by hosko on Oct 14, 2016 6:10:27 GMT -5
I thought that way until I read the engineering rationale for doing so. I've heard the DAC a few times... simply stunning. PS Audio Direct Stream ReviewIsn't the conversion to such a high resolution DSD just so it could do volume adjustment. Im looking for bit perfect pass through so that's not really needed. I know the DSD plugin for ProTools converts PCM to DSD, which seems pointless. It's never going to be better than the original PCM |
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Post by geebo on Oct 14, 2016 7:06:47 GMT -5
Some questions, please, gents - My understanding is that if I download a DSD file, and then play it through JRiver Media Center 22 - over Ethernet DLNA - to my Oppo BDP-105 that somewhere in the chain (Ethernet over DLNA?) the file is automatically converted back to PCM and that the stream that reaches the Oppo will no longer be a DSD file. True? Even if JRiver manages to get the file to the Oppo, I don't want it converted to analog there. Instead, I want it passed through its coaxial digital output to the Schiit Gungnar Multibit OR to the Cary SI-300.2D (both of which can do DSD conversion without reverting to PCM). Will the Oppo pass DSD streams without conversion? Finally, the Cary has the potential to convert PCM streams to DSD. Why would there be any advantage to this? It would seem that one could never get higher quality than the PCM file one started with, regardless of additional processing. True or false? Pardon my ignorance, but before I spend half a day doing internet research I thought I'd "ask-the-experts." Thanks - Boomzilla You can't send DSD over coax or Toslink. DSD licensing doesn't allow for it. The Oppo can send DSD via HDMI, however. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 14, 2016 7:24:34 GMT -5
HDMI does me no good, geebo. Neither the Cary nor the Schiit offers HDMI inputs. Other options? I don't use USB, so that TV looking BNC socket is what I need? |
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Post by geebo on Oct 14, 2016 7:31:06 GMT -5
HDMI does me no good, geebo. Neither the Cary nor the Schiit offers HDMI inputs. Other options? I don't use USB, so that TV looking socket is what I need? None that I know of. DSD is only allowed over HDMI. Your options would be to let the Oppo convert to PCM or convert directly to analog or send it via HDMI to something like an XMC-1. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 14, 2016 7:44:37 GMT -5
But that seems illogical - why would Cary & Schiit offer DSD-capable DACs without any input method?
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Post by geebo on Oct 14, 2016 8:04:13 GMT -5
But that seems illogical - why would Cary & Schiit offer DSD-capable DACs without any input method? Not at all familiar with Cary but what Schiit has DSD capability. Perhaps they use DoP? ( DSD Over PCM) But the Oppo won't do DoP. |
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Post by Soup on Oct 14, 2016 9:09:11 GMT -5
FROM THE SCHIIT WEBSITE: What about DSD? Yggdrasil won’t do DSD, no way, no how.  |
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Post by yves on Oct 14, 2016 9:19:53 GMT -5
I understand that DSD is as close to analog as you can get in the digital world. Whereas I understand that it is not. So in answer to your question, what's the point of DSD... the point of DSD is to make people strongly BELIEVE (by abusing a psychological trick called pseudoscience), that DSD is as close to analog as you can get in the digital world, i.e. those individuals who still support the proliferation of DSD recording technology due to its socalled "superiority" to modern PCM today are all just scammers, and the crux of the matter is that this fact has been established like more than 12 years ago already, but unfortunately, despite this, the scammers still won't easily let go of their victims. |
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Post by yves on Oct 14, 2016 9:45:06 GMT -5
Some questions, please, gents - My understanding is that if I download a DSD file, and then play it through JRiver Media Center 22 - over Ethernet DLNA - to my Oppo BDP-105 that somewhere in the chain (Ethernet over DLNA?) the file is automatically converted back to PCM and that the stream that reaches the Oppo will no longer be a DSD file. True? Even if JRiver manages to get the file to the Oppo, I don't want it converted to analog there. Instead, I want it passed through its coaxial digital output to the Schiit Gungnar Multibit OR to the Cary SI-300.2D (both of which can do DSD conversion without reverting to PCM). Will the Oppo pass DSD streams without conversion? Finally, the Cary has the potential to convert PCM streams to DSD. Why would there be any advantage to this? It would seem that one could never get higher quality than the PCM file one started with, regardless of additional processing. True or false? Pardon my ignorance, but before I spend half a day doing internet research I thought I'd "ask-the-experts." Thanks - Boomzilla I think the story here ends with the Oppo. Build your own HTPC that will be able to use asynchronous USB 2.0 to play DSD files on your separate DAC that supports native DSD playback, i.e. by letting the HTPC access your music server or NAS directly via your home network (ethernet connection), as doing this will, in addition to the lack of native DSD connectivity via DLNA, solve so many other problems related directly to using an Oppo Blu-ray player for music playback. |
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Post by geebo on Oct 14, 2016 10:13:42 GMT -5
Some questions, please, gents - My understanding is that if I download a DSD file, and then play it through JRiver Media Center 22 - over Ethernet DLNA - to my Oppo BDP-105 that somewhere in the chain (Ethernet over DLNA?) the file is automatically converted back to PCM and that the stream that reaches the Oppo will no longer be a DSD file. True? Even if JRiver manages to get the file to the Oppo, I don't want it converted to analog there. Instead, I want it passed through its coaxial digital output to the Schiit Gungnar Multibit OR to the Cary SI-300.2D (both of which can do DSD conversion without reverting to PCM). Will the Oppo pass DSD streams without conversion? Finally, the Cary has the potential to convert PCM streams to DSD. Why would there be any advantage to this? It would seem that one could never get higher quality than the PCM file one started with, regardless of additional processing. True or false? Pardon my ignorance, but before I spend half a day doing internet research I thought I'd "ask-the-experts." Thanks - Boomzilla I think the story here ends with the Oppo. Build your own HTPC that will be able to use asynchronous USB 2.0 to play DSD files on your separate DAC that supports native DSD playback, i.e. by letting the HTPC access your music server or NAS directly via your home network (ethernet connection), as doing this will, in addition to the lack of native DSD connectivity via DLNA, solve so many other problems related directly to using an Oppo Blu-ray player for music playback. What other problems? |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 14, 2016 10:13:51 GMT -5
Thanks - Interesting...
So here's my next question -
Assuming I can send DSD over DLNA (and JRiver says I can), will the Oppo receive the stream via Ethernet DLNA & output the same on its USB output without converting the signal? In other words, I don't need the Oppo to convert the incoming signal bits at all - just transfer the stream (bits-intact) to a different output. If I can get the DSD stream out of the Oppo's USB port, then the Cary will accept the incoming USB-DSD stream - automatically up-convert it to 8x its original frequency, and then convert to analog without PCM's brick-wall filters.
Despite claims to the contrary, a less steep low-pass filter should (theoretically) have less ringing. If fact, if I read Schiit's literature correctly, that's basically what they're doing with their "multi-bit" DACs - Converting the incoming PCM to a higher frequency bit-by-bit stream & then using milder filters. Of course, I may have completely misunderstood their explanations...
Mr. Keith Levkoff, might I request your insight on this thread?
Thanks - Boomzilla
PS: I do see that the Sonore Sonicorbiter can convert incoming Ethernet DLNA to USB (and for all flavors of DSD - DoP, DSD, & "native DSD" (?)
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Post by geebo on Oct 14, 2016 10:19:07 GMT -5
Thanks - Interesting... So here's my next question - Assuming I can send DSD over DLNA (and JRiver says I can), will the Oppo receive the stream via Ethernet DLNA & output the same on its USB output without converting the signal? In other words, I don't need the Oppo to convert the incoming signal bits at all - just transfer the stream (bits-intact) to a different output. If I can get the DSD stream out of the Oppo's USB port, then the Cary will accept the incoming USB-DSD stream - automatically up-convert it to 8x its original frequency, and then convert to analog without PCM's brick-wall filters. Despite claims to the contrary, a less steep low-pass filter should (theoretically) have less ringing. If fact, if I read Schiit's literature correctly, that's basically what they're doing with their "multi-bit" DACs - Converting the incoming PCM to a higher frequency bit-by-bit stream & then using milder filters. Of course, I may have completely misunderstood their explanations... Mr. Keith Levkoff, might I request your insight on this thread? Thanks - Boomzilla The Oppo will not stream DSD out of anything other than HDMI. And I'm not aware of any USB output on the Oppo. |
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