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Post by benbvan on Jan 1, 2017 13:56:21 GMT -5
Oh boy DO I need some professional help😊!! Yes the dryer is 220-240. Thank for the advise on what goes on the circuit. I'm thinking I want the double wide blades when they're available also, so more power for speakers.
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Post by leonski on Jan 1, 2017 14:43:32 GMT -5
Just my opinion, again, but before simply investing in MORE power, which I really doubt you need, I'd investigate BETTER power.
You won't need real deep pockets, but maybe start with dumping the Denon?
I'd be curious about some measurements, too, and REALLY ADVOCATE getting a Kill-A-Watt meter. They are inexpensive (25$?) and will help you going forward.
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Post by benbvan on Jan 1, 2017 14:47:55 GMT -5
I will get the meter. The Denon is brand new and I really enjoy it's features. I don't use it for powering speakers other than surrounds. I totally understand your point on "better" power, that's definitely the reason for the questions here and I very much appreciate your responses. Home Depot would have the kill a watt meter?
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Post by leonski on Jan 1, 2017 20:26:01 GMT -5
www.homedepot.com/p/Kill-A-Watt-Electricity-Monitor-P4400/202196386All of 20$ at the Home Despot. Lots of real good mid-fi amps out there. EMO is doubtless good value, but you might consider any of a BUNCH of other choices from NAD to ROTEL to PARASOUND or maybe even ADCOM or OUTLAW. Some USED gear is probably available by checking AudioGon or even (BE REAL CAREFUL) Craig'sList or EPray. I personally DOUBT you need more power except when trying to get evicted but good power never hurts, either.
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Post by benbvan on Jan 1, 2017 20:45:59 GMT -5
I have plenty of power now, but one wouldn't hurt, that's why I'm thinking double wide when they're available. I will get the meter and definitely run a new circuit. Would 15 amp be enough with 12awg, or should I run 20 amp?
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Post by dwaleke on Jan 1, 2017 21:01:18 GMT -5
I have plenty of power now, but one wouldn't hurt, that's why I'm thinking double wide when they're available. I will get the meter and definitely run a new circuit. Would 15 amp be enough with 12awg, or should I run 20 amp? If you are going through the trouble of physical labor run 10 gauge wire. That way you can run up to a 30 amp breaker if you ever needed it. Start with a 20. The higher gauge wire will help prevent voltage droop under load. |
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Post by leonski on Jan 1, 2017 22:20:44 GMT -5
I don't know about 30 amp breakers fitting in a standard box, but 20s are all over the place, even in 1/2 width sizes.
The OTHER factor is the service to the house. I don't know that anything under a 100 amp service is built these days.
If you do NOT have at least a 100 amp service, or maybe RENT an apartment, that's gonna be a limit.
A larger service might help and even SOLAR which might help voltage drops during peak usage in Summer.
My house, for example can see as low as 114 VAC at which point I've begun shutting stuff off and even unplugging.
Normally? 116 or 117 VAC even during summer. Right now? 119 VAC and very low strain on the 'grid'.
Experience has shown that the chance of a brownout or outright interruption rises dramatically below 114vac.
That's HERE, so I don't know about your or anyone elses situation.
The MARGINAL COST of running a 20 amp circuit VS a 15 amp circuit is not even worth talking about. Go 20.
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Post by benbvan on Jan 9, 2017 23:13:09 GMT -5
Just picked up a Kill-a-watt meter. On an outlet not connected to my equipment I have 116.5-115. I wanted to see if I had a voltage drop thru the house while playing the music on a different circuit. The varying voltage doesn't seem to be affected by the volume level. It just goes up and down. All my equipment on and most of the lights in the house. I'm going to start the clothes dryer and see what happens.
But I still have a question ... I have a 3200 watt power supply.. since on a 110v circuit I can't get that many watts out of it, and hardly that from a 220v circuit... how does the power supply , supply the amps with up to 3200 watts/Va, and how much wall power is need to feed the power supply at full draw?
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Post by benbvan on Jan 9, 2017 23:16:58 GMT -5
Thank you guys for your responses. OK, I turned it up louder.. lol. When it's kicking hard I got down to 113.5 on an outlet not ran to my equipment, but I'm not sure if it's on the same circuit. There was still room to go on the volume but it's late and I don't want to wake the neighbors.
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Post by dwaleke on Jan 9, 2017 23:19:38 GMT -5
Just picked up a Kill-a-watt meter. On an outlet not connected to my equipment I have 116.5-115. I wanted to see if I had a voltage drop thru the house while playing the music on a different circuit. The varying voltage doesn't seem to be affected by the volume level. It just goes up and down. All my equipment on and most of the lights in the house. I'm going to start the clothes dryer and see what happens. But I still have a question ... I have a 3200 watt power supply.. since on a 110v circuit I can't get that many watts out of it, and hardly that from a 220v circuit... how does the power supply , supply the amps with up to 3200 watts/Va, and how much wall power is need to feed the power supply at full draw? Breakers are not brick walls. You can pull over 80 amps through a 20 amp breaker for short amount of time before the breaker will trip. |
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Post by benbvan on Jan 9, 2017 23:52:59 GMT -5
OK, it had to be on the same circuit, when I plugged into an outlet in the kitchen I had 122.5 volts, will check if that drops when the music is turned up. It did drop when I turned on the microwave. It dropped to 113 volts and it pulls 17.5 amps and the meter was beeping lol. 1885 watts and 1995va it was pulling for a 1200 watt microwave... so is it the same for the amplifier? Do I need to be able to provide 5000 watts for this amp to provide 3200?
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Post by leonski on Jan 10, 2017 2:35:07 GMT -5
The chance of needing redline power from all channels AT ONCE is ZERO.
Good Job getting the meter. Now you will KNOW stuff others 'guess' at. That microwave of yours is a BRUTE.
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Post by benbvan on Jan 10, 2017 2:42:34 GMT -5
That microwave scared me lol. Thank you for the advice about the meter. I have the XPA 2. But I just realized there's more on the circuit than I thought. I still want some info about the power supply.
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Post by dwaleke on Jan 10, 2017 8:00:10 GMT -5
That microwave scared me lol. Thank you for the advice about the meter. I have the XPA 2. But I just realized there's more on the circuit than I thought. I still want some info about the power supply. Your looking at it from the wrong perspective. Determine how loud you want it at you main listening position, find the efficiency of your speakers, and then calculate how much theoretical power is required to achieve that desired spl. myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.htmlI highly doubt you need anywhere near max power from the gen 3 amp. It is not possible for the amp to pull 5000 watts from the wall. However the voltage droop would be a concern for me. If possible run a dedicated circuit with large gauge (10-12) wire direct to your panel to combat voltage droop. The gen 3 amp will have no problems at 116v though so this is optional. I mention it as it seems you are trying to optimize power to your amp. But even then without knowing how loud you listen it's not possible to determine if there is anything for you to address. Most people use 50 watts or less while listening. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jan 10, 2017 11:13:36 GMT -5
Exactly. You also need to remember that music is very dynamic. With typical music, the average power is somewhere between 1/10 and 1/20 of the peak power. So, if the amp draws 30 amps "maximum - on the test bench - with a test signal", it's probably drawing three to five amps when playing music pretty loudly.  Just picked up a Kill-a-watt meter. On an outlet not connected to my equipment I have 116.5-115. I wanted to see if I had a voltage drop thru the house while playing the music on a different circuit. The varying voltage doesn't seem to be affected by the volume level. It just goes up and down. All my equipment on and most of the lights in the house. I'm going to start the clothes dryer and see what happens. But I still have a question ... I have a 3200 watt power supply.. since on a 110v circuit I can't get that many watts out of it, and hardly that from a 220v circuit... how does the power supply , supply the amps with up to 3200 watts/Va, and how much wall power is need to feed the power supply at full draw? Breakers are not brick walls. You can pull over 80 amps through a 20 amp breaker for short amount of time before the breaker will trip. |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Jan 10, 2017 11:19:29 GMT -5
I should also drop another little fact in here.....
The 3 kW power supply in the XPA Gen3 is REGULATED..... which is something you just won't find in a linear power supply big enough to run a power amp
(at least not one that costs less than your car).
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Post by benbvan on Jan 10, 2017 11:43:14 GMT -5
Thank you dwalwke for the insight. I do understand dynamics, but loud for me is loud and when I see lights dim I know I'm running short of juice and don't want to do that to my electronics so I'm definitely adding a 20amp circuit.
And thank you Keith for the info on the PS.
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Post by benbvan on Jan 10, 2017 13:34:22 GMT -5
So from the wall, with all my equipment including cmX2 plugged thru the meter I was reading 118-117.5 volts at very low volumes. I reconnected just the XPA to the Kill-a-watt meter thru the cmX2 and I lost 2-2.5 volts instantly. I never pulled more than 600 watts from the wall and I had clipping around that point. Though I saw voltages drop to around 111 at that point.
So do I scrap the cmX? I really don't know how much of a difference 2.5 volts would be, but at peak power I would imagine it could be significant. Does anyone know if the voltage drop is common in the cmX products?
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Post by monkumonku on Jan 10, 2017 13:40:25 GMT -5
So from the wall, with all my equipment including cmX2 plugged thru the meter I was reading 118-117.5 volts at very low volumes. I reconnected just the XPA to the Kill-a-watt meter thru the cmX2 and I lost 2-2.5 volts instantly. I never pulled more than 600 watts from the wall and I had clipping around that point. Though I saw voltages drop to around 111 at that point. So do I scrap the cmX? I really don't know how much of a difference 2.5 volts would be, but at peak power I would imagine it could be significant. Does anyone know if the voltage drop is common in the cmX products? I am using a CMX-2 and it causes a voltage drop of nearly 2V. Being that I use a tube amp with recommendations not to exceed 120V, that's fine for me. I was told that power conditioners often decrease the voltage, an intentional part of their design. |
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Post by benbvan on Jan 10, 2017 13:50:03 GMT -5
Intentional for tube amp protection?
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