vmac72
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 9 
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Post by vmac72 on Oct 15, 2016 13:30:03 GMT -5
Hi all, just on the hunt for a new DAC, looking for any advise as long as you have experience with dac. It will be hooked up to XPA-1 gen 2's. Preferably a dac/pre. So far the Mytek dsd stereo dac and the Nuprime dac 9 or 10 preferably the 9 as i am looking for a dac with the AKM 4490 chip, is what has caught my eye. Please chime in. Thanks to all who help me out.
regards vinniemac hey guys quick edit here..........Does or has anyone heard if Emo is gonna give us a DSD dac to play with?
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Post by mnyankee on Oct 15, 2016 17:53:42 GMT -5
I would look at the Hugo Chord and the Chord 2Qute DAC's. The 2Qute is the Hugo without the headphone amp so it is cheaper. There is a used Hugo for sale here for a great price- www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=146076.0They use a Field Programable Gate Array. They have a slightly warmer romantic sound without losing detail. I almost bought one after doing home auditions of the PS Audio DSD direct stream dac, Marantz NA11s1, Cary Audio 200t and a few others until I bought my Luxman DA-06. The Chord DAC's have a big following and great reviews. Don't let its small size fool you. That used Hugo is a great price. If I had the extra cash I would buy it and use it in my secondary system. Larry Some times you can find a used 2Qute on Audiogon for a great price. |
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Post by yves on Oct 15, 2016 18:16:54 GMT -5
DAC untis that use the AKM 4490 chip all usually sound different from eachother because the DAC chip alone makes up much less than 10% of the sound signature, in many cases only around 5%. In fact the implementation matters so much more than the chip itself that it would be fair to conclude you are doing yourself a big disservice by judging DAC performance mainly on the chip it uses, and, to me, personally, it just means you are not really looking for DAC advice from people who have experience with DACs because you have already made up your own mind regardless of what experience with DACs those people might have.
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Post by solidstate on Oct 16, 2016 16:03:59 GMT -5
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Post by sahmen on Oct 16, 2016 16:45:04 GMT -5
If XLR inputs or outputs are not a requirement, then Massdrop/Grace Design M9XX : "D/A Magic The digital section of the m9XX utilizes a top-of-the-line AKM chip. Part of the newest generation of converters from AKM, the AK4490 features 256x oversampling, 32-bit processing, and sample rate compatibility from 44.1kHz all the way to DSD128. The m9XX even offers a variety of anti-aliasing filters to choose from, something that is rarely included in this price range or physical size. The digital USB controller is an 8-core XMOS processor that operates in asynchronous mode and is immune to USB buss jitter, which can adversely affect sound quality in the transfer. The m9XX is also capable of receiving a digital signal up to 96kHz/24 bit via Toslink."   It comes in a small, transportable form factor, and can be used independently as an amp/DAC if needed. |
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Post by solidstate on Oct 16, 2016 16:59:35 GMT -5
I wonder how you change filters on that DAC sahmen. The volume/encoder is prob a push button and mode is reflected on the segment display? Definitely has some kinda microcontroller paired with the encoder and front panel/display to set DAC modes/filters.
Any idea sahmen how it attenuates the line outs?
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Post by Loop 7 on Oct 16, 2016 17:27:50 GMT -5
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Post by sahmen on Oct 16, 2016 17:30:17 GMT -5
SolidState: Filter/Setting changes are all done via various ways of combining pushes and turns of the volume dial. It is really not complicated at all. I'm not sure how to interpret your second question, but if it is about lineout attenuation when an external amp (with independent volume control) or preamp is being used, then Grade Design advises setting the volume dial of the M9XX at the 90db position, so that it can send out a fixed/non-variable signal to that external unit. When the M9XX is acting both as a DAC and Amp, all attenuation is done via the volume dial, obviously. I hope I've addressed all your questions  |
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Post by solidstate on Oct 16, 2016 17:38:53 GMT -5
SolidState: Filter/Setting changes are all done via various ways of combining pushes and turns of the volume dial. It is really not complicated at all. I'm not sure how to interpret your second question, but if it is about lineout attenuation when an external amp (with independent volume control) or preamp is being used, then Grade Design advises setting the volume dial of the M9XX at the 90db position, so that it can send out a fixed/non-variable signal to that external unit. When the M9XX is acting both as a DAC and Amp, all attenuation is done via the volume dial, obviously. I hope I've addressed all your questions Mostly I was inquiring about it's "amp" function and by that I mean the line level out volume attenuation not the headphone amp's output. Must be a chip volume if the UI is an encoder connected to a microcontroller or perhaps it's done in the DAC on it's current dif out. That wouldn't be very good if trying to use it as an "amp" meaning attenuating the line level outs. Their suggestion to set it to 90dB when connected to a pre suggests the line level out is weak in terms of V. PS since when does including a volume attenuation in a DAC constitute calling it an amp? Oh I guess if it has a headphone amp onboard? The lexicon is changing like it did way back when when the "receiver" was born by combining a preamp with a radio tuner. |
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Post by solidstate on Oct 16, 2016 17:42:26 GMT -5
Loop 7 that look expensive to me! It's also Sabre based... I find most Sabre implementations to be uh... sharp, at times shrill, and for the most part lifeless and to clinical. The sure measure well and all but there is something about them I simply don't like. It's prob for the most part the I/V line drive stages and the difficulty of working with it's analog out into a line stage for than the DAC itself. I like the AD1955 better and the TI DSD/PCM series even more like what's used in the XMC-1. |
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Post by sahmen on Oct 16, 2016 17:43:25 GMT -5
SolidState: Filter/Setting changes are all done via various ways of combining pushes and turns of the volume dial. It is really not complicated at all. I'm not sure how to interpret your second question, but if it is about lineout attenuation when an external amp (with independent volume control) or preamp is being used, then Grade Design advises setting the volume dial of the M9XX at the 90db position, so that it can send out a fixed/non-variable signal to that external unit. When the M9XX is acting both as a DAC and Amp, all attenuation is done via the volume dial, obviously. I hope I've addressed all your questions Mostly I was inquiring about it's "amp" function and by that I mean the line level out volume attenuation not the headphone amp's output. Must be a chip volume if the UI is an encoder connected to a microcontroller or perhaps it's done in the DAC on it's current dif out. That wouldn't be very good if trying to use it as an "amp" meaning attenuating the line level outs. Their suggestion to set it to 90dB when connected to a pre suggests the line level out is weak in terms of V. PS since when does including a volume attenuation in a DAC constitute calling it an amp? Oh I guess if it has a headphone amp onboard? The lexicon is changing like it did way back when when the "receiver" was born by combining a preamp with a radio tuner. Well here's the lowdown on technical details regarding the amp section of the M9XX: "High Quality Head Amp Drawing on the technical know-how earned by creating headphone amplifiers usually priced in the thousands, the Grace m9XX is a direct-coupled design with no capacitors in the signal path. The output amplifier is DC servo controlled which ensures zero phase shift for the ultimate in clarity and resolution. High-quality resistors in the circuit path help the m9XX deliver a low-noise, low-distortion signal as well as dynamic accuracy and excellent channel matching to the headphones. The amplifier section is built around the TI THS6012 current feedback chipset, but has been modified with a proprietary circuit topology to zero output impedance for a maximized damping factor, even with sensitive IEMs. This allows the m9XX to deliver all of the ultra-high resolution and clarity of a current feedback amp with all of the control and dynamics of a zero-output impedance headphone amplifier. The compact m9XX even includes new crossfeed circuitry that sonically distributes the stereo image across a headphone’s soundstage and in turn helps reduce listening fatigue over time (toggle on or off from the device menu)." More technical info may be found here: www.massdrop.com/buy/grace-design-x-massdrop-m9xx-dac-amp |
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Post by Loop 7 on Oct 16, 2016 17:56:15 GMT -5
The PS Audio NuWave DSD is $1,299 so yes I agree it's expensive. However, it's silky smooth. I tend to think the DAC chip is much less important than design decisions and tuning.
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Post by solidstate on Oct 16, 2016 18:05:08 GMT -5
The PS Audio NuWave DSD is $1,299 so yes I agree it's expensive. However, it's silky smooth. I tend to think the DAC chip is much less important than design decisions and tuning. Oh for sure a well designed Sabre is nothing like what I suggested of it though it could be said to still be "bright" WTF that means eh. LOL The problem with Sabre DACs is there are so many out there and prob 80% of them have the properties I suggest IMHO. |
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Post by Soup on Oct 16, 2016 18:06:40 GMT -5
The Nuwave can be found for $800 used.
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Post by solidstate on Oct 16, 2016 18:13:52 GMT -5
If spending $1300 bucks heck why not go to the $2k level? www.audioalchemy.com/products/ddp-1I'd take that weird unheard GUSTARD A20H over everything mentioned so far because on paper it's the best and without actually hearing them... Plus it's under a grand!  ![]()        • The latest top-level decoding chip AKM AK4497EQ x2,left/right channel independent, isolated interference,the sound is more pure; • CPLD programmable logic chip,the logic of its own construction of digital integrated circuits,clock management,2nd PLL digital shaping,DOP demodulation,PCM/DSD depop switch exclusive technology.For excellent sound quality and laid a solid foundation; • Full Discrete Component High Current Pure Class A balanced headphone amplifier,each channel uses two independent amplification units to form a symmetrical output line,single-ended and balanced output at the same time,providing an excellent listening platform for the majority of headphone lovers; • Native fully balanced architecture,from DA to the amplifier circuit,without any conversion,the full four-way output volume; • DAC and headphone amplifiers each use a custom 50W audio dedicated toroidal transformer,fully independent power supply. • Analog LPF circuit using independent development of discrete lines,carefully adjust the parameters of each level,until the best working condition; • High/low selectable gain in preamp mode.Supports 60 analog lossless volume adjustment.Remote control with the post-amplifier,active speaker;can also turn off the pre-function,DA line straight out.RCA single-ended and XLR balanced output at the same time; • A20H use Native full-balanced design,from decoding to volume control,including the amp section are fully balanced design. • Full interface support DSD hardware decode:IIS supports DSD64,DSD128,DSD256,DSD512; SPDIF,Optical,AES/EBU support DSD64(DOP mode); USB support DSD64,DSD128,DSD256; • Digital filtering,DSD provides Wide BW/Narrow BW;PCM provides Short Delay Shar /Short Delay Slow/Sharp/Slow/Low- • XOMS U8,Support PCM384/DSD256; • Adjustable screen brightness.If no operation after 30 seconds to restore the default brightness; • All-aluminum chassis. • DAC Size: 330（L)* 260（W)* (H) 65MM (without protruding parts); • Package size: 420 (L) * 360 (W) * 175MM (H); • With packaging weight: 6.5KG; • International voltage AC100V-240V; • Frequency response: 20Hz-20kHz +/- 0.1dB • Line Output (off-stage): RCA Output Level: 2.0Vrms @ 0dBFS, XLR Output Level: 4.0 Vrms @ 0dBFS • XLR interface definition: US standard • Headphone AMP maximum output power：2400mW @ 32Ω Load power： 32Ω 2400mW 64Ω 1230mW 150Ω 530 mW 300Ω 264 mW |
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Oct 16, 2016 18:36:50 GMT -5
If spending $1300 bucks heck why not go to the $2k level? www.audioalchemy.com/products/ddp-1I'd take that weird unheard GUSTARD A20H over everything mentioned so far because on paper it's the best and without actually hearing them... Plus it's under a grand! ![]() • The latest top-level decoding chip AKM AK4497EQ x2,left/right channel independent, isolated interference,the sound is more pure; • CPLD programmable logic chip,the logic of its own construction of digital integrated circuits,clock management,2nd PLL digital shaping,DOP demodulation,PCM/DSD depop switch exclusive technology.For excellent sound quality and laid a solid foundation; • Full Discrete Component High Current Pure Class A balanced headphone amplifier,each channel uses two independent amplification units to form a symmetrical output line,single-ended and balanced output at the same time,providing an excellent listening platform for the majority of headphone lovers; • Native fully balanced architecture,from DA to the amplifier circuit,without any conversion,the full four-way output volume; • DAC and headphone amplifiers each use a custom 50W audio dedicated toroidal transformer,fully independent power supply. • Analog LPF circuit using independent development of discrete lines,carefully adjust the parameters of each level,until the best working condition; • High/low selectable gain in preamp mode.Supports 60 analog lossless volume adjustment.Remote control with the post-amplifier,active speaker;can also turn off the pre-function,DA line straight out.RCA single-ended and XLR balanced output at the same time; • A20H use Native full-balanced design,from decoding to volume control,including the amp section are fully balanced design. • Full interface support DSD hardware decode:IIS supports DSD64,DSD128,DSD256,DSD512; SPDIF,Optical,AES/EBU support DSD64(DOP mode); USB support DSD64,DSD128,DSD256; • Digital filtering,DSD provides Wide BW/Narrow BW;PCM provides Short Delay Shar /Short Delay Slow/Sharp/Slow/Low- • XOMS U8,Support PCM384/DSD256; • Adjustable screen brightness.If no operation after 30 seconds to restore the default brightness; • All-aluminum chassis. • DAC Size: 330（L)* 260（W)* (H) 65MM (without protruding parts); • Package size: 420 (L) * 360 (W) * 175MM (H); • With packaging weight: 6.5KG; • International voltage AC100V-240V; • Frequency response: 20Hz-20kHz +/- 0.1dB • Line Output (off-stage): RCA Output Level: 2.0Vrms @ 0dBFS, XLR Output Level: 4.0 Vrms @ 0dBFS • XLR interface definition: US standard • Headphone AMP maximum output power：2400mW @ 32Ω Load power： 32Ω 2400mW 64Ω 1230mW 150Ω 530 mW 300Ω 264 mW That looks really nice! |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 16, 2016 18:44:52 GMT -5
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Post by sahmen on Oct 16, 2016 19:04:06 GMT -5
Okay, I think the OP should give us an estimated price range to work with... Otherwise the suggestions are going to be all over the place...
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Post by pdaddy on Oct 16, 2016 19:17:01 GMT -5
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Post by solidstate on Oct 16, 2016 19:42:46 GMT -5
The Chinese brand Gustard A20H is within a hundred bucks of the Nuprime dac 9 and is using the newer AK4497EQ vs. the older lower spec'd AK4490. It lacks an analog in though like the Dac-9. It also doesn't have some weird SRC done on the input into a FPGA to clock and downsample. That aspect of the Dac-9 turns me off it vs doing the upsampling internally in the AK4490 but I guess they know what they're doing. Seems like a similar trip to what Antelope does with it's DACs.
The Chinese are using a good clock to avoid "jitter" in the U8 FPGA module to I2S with Accusilicom femotosecond crystals.
Again on paper the Gustard A20H looks better and is within a $100 bucks of the Dac-9.
It would be nice to see the innards of the Dac-9 to get an idea of it's design.
At times it can be hard to trust these unknown mainland Chinese brands but that unit looks very well engineered.
Anyone heard of this Gustard brand? Their .cn website doesn't seem to be online.
The A20H also has IIS (I2S) input as well on an HDMI header.
I've seen hackers lift I2S from a cheap AVR and pump it to a HDMI header they cut into the chassis thus avoid the sh** analog section of a box store AVR and pumping it into a DAC that has a IIS input for huge improvements in fidelity.
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