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Post by Loop 7 on Dec 9, 2016 11:46:29 GMT -5
Talk me off the ledge... My friend asked me for holiday gift recommendations for her husband (long time buddy of mine since college) so I had her order a pair of Airmotiv 4s monitors and a Little Ego. I'm now full of regret because I just remembered the the system he'll open up xmas morning will have lossy volume control which just bugs me to no end (he will be connecting the Little Ego to his PC workstation). Buying a Control Freak is out of the budget so are there are any super inexpensive gain control devices out there? Or, should I have recommended she purchase Schiit's new Fulla product that solves the problem with it's cool volume control? Maybe I should bite the bullet and send him a Control Freak but that means cable purchases. ugh!  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 9, 2016 12:01:47 GMT -5
Build one from Radio-Shag parts. Nothing to it (if you can solder).
And despite your reservations, I'm not sure that the digital volume control will be as harmful as you fear. Listen to the system before making any further decisions.
If you still think it should sound better, the Emotiva PT-100 preamp ($299) is a great option.
Boom
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Post by Loop 7 on Dec 9, 2016 12:08:51 GMT -5
Build one from Radio-Shag parts. Nothing to it (if you can solder). And despite your reservations, I'm not sure that the digital volume control will be as harmful as you fear. Listen to the system before making any further decisions. If you still think it should sound better, the Emotiva PT-100 preamp ($299) is a great option. Boom The system's recipient is not at all an audiophile. He's a music fanatic (5,000+ CDs plus streaming) so maybe he won't notice. This will be an upgrade from a pair of $50 computer speakers. |
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Post by copperpipe on Dec 9, 2016 12:08:55 GMT -5
The little ego is not lossy! The headphone jack is what he would end up plugging the airmotivs into, and it has a digitally controlled lossless volume. I believe he would just have to set the media player to 100% volume and then use windows main volume control to turn volume up/down.
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 9, 2016 13:43:00 GMT -5
The little ego is not lossy! The headphone jack is what he would end up plugging the airmotivs into, and it has a digitally controlled lossless volume. I believe he would just have to set the media player to 100% volume and then use windows main volume control to turn volume up/down. Exactly, if the source is a Mac then tell him to set the iTunes volume to max and control the volume with the OS master volume. That uses the resister ladder in the Ego, hence analogue volume control. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Loop 7 on Dec 9, 2016 13:53:29 GMT -5
The little ego is not lossy! The headphone jack is what he would end up plugging the airmotivs into, and it has a digitally controlled lossless volume. I believe he would just have to set the media player to 100% volume and then use windows main volume control to turn volume up/down. Exactly, if the source is a Mac then tell him to set the iTunes volume to max and control the volume with the OS master volume. That uses the resister ladder in the Ego, hence analogue volume control. Cheers Gary I think the source will be Google Play Music via Chrome for Windows or possibly Spotify for Windows. Does the OS matter? |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 9, 2016 14:12:45 GMT -5
Exactly, if the source is a Mac then tell him to set the iTunes volume to max and control the volume with the OS master volume. That uses the resister ladder in the Ego, hence analogue volume control. I think the source will be Google Play Music via Chrome for Windows or possibly Spotify for Windows. Does the OS matter? I believe the trick is to use the OS volume control not the source volume control. The OS volume should control the resister ladder in the Ego, hence analogue volume control, whereas the source (Google, Spotify, iTunes etc) volume will be digital volume control. Cheers Gary |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 9, 2016 14:16:41 GMT -5
Actually only CERTAIN sources are able to control the ladder volume control in the DAC (one of those being jRiver). In general the system volume control is the better choice. Of course, the practical differences only matter significantly at very low volume settings (and, if it sounds fine, then it really doesn't matter - right?) I think the source will be Google Play Music via Chrome for Windows or possibly Spotify for Windows. Does the OS matter? I believe the trick is to use the OS volume control not the source volume control. The OS volume should control the resister ladder in the Ego, hence analogue volume control, whereas the source (Google, Spotify, iTunes etc) volume will be digital volume control. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 9, 2016 14:30:10 GMT -5
Actually only CERTAIN sources are able to control the ladder volume control in the DAC (one of those being jRiver). In general the system volume control is the better choice. Of course, the practical differences only matter significantly at very low volume settings (and, if it sounds fine, then it really doesn't matter - right?) I believe the trick is to use the OS volume control not the source volume control. The OS volume should control the resister ladder in the Ego, hence analogue volume control, whereas the source (Google, Spotify, iTunes etc) volume will be digital volume control. Spot on Keith, I noticed the difference mostly when I was listening to music "in the background" whilst concentrating on whatever task I was carry out on the computer at the same time. Cheers Gary |
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Post by copperpipe on Dec 9, 2016 14:46:51 GMT -5
Actually only CERTAIN sources are able to control the ladder volume control in the DAC (one of those being jRiver). In general the system volume control is the better choice. Of course, the practical differences only matter significantly at very low volume settings (and, if it sounds fine, then it really doesn't matter - right?) I believe the trick is to use the OS volume control not the source volume control. The OS volume should control the resister ladder in the Ego, hence analogue volume control, whereas the source (Google, Spotify, iTunes etc) volume will be digital volume control. Cheers Gary Hmm, well if that's the case, then I must be misunderstanding how it works? I thought that if a media player changed it's volume, it was changing the volume internally, so windows would get a softer stream, whereas if you used OS volume you would be changing volume on device. Does JRiver actually change the windows OS overall volume (and thereby directly changing the Ego volume)? (at this point I'm a little confused - no worries, doesn't take much!) |
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Post by Loop 7 on Dec 9, 2016 14:56:23 GMT -5
I guess KeithL is saying the volume will be lossy as I assumed (He won't be using JRiver). Darn. I'll have my pal return the Little Ego and order the new Schiit Fulla. An unbalanced Control Freak would solve the problem perfectly but those are tough to find. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 9, 2016 15:10:03 GMT -5
I would suggest that he LISTEN to it first...... I haven't actually heard the Fulla.... but the Egos sound very good... (the Schiit Saga also happens to essentially be a two-input version of the unbalanced Control Freak - for $49) While, in theory, you will hear a loss of quality with even a good digital volume control, it tends not to be noticeable unless you're set at very low volume levels. And analog potentimeter volume controls, like the Fulla uses, ALSO have disadvantages. (For one thing, while digital volume controls track almost perfectly at all volume settings; analog potentiometers tend to track poorly at low settings.) I guess KeithL is saying the volume will be lossy as I assumed (He won't be using JRiver). Darn. I'll have my pal return the Little Ego and order the new Schiit Fulla. An unbalanced Control Freak would solve the problem perfectly but those are tough to find. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 9, 2016 15:17:54 GMT -5
I guess KeithL is saying the volume will be lossy as I assumed (He won't be using JRiver). I don't believe that he is, what your friend needs to do is control the volume using the Windows operating system volume control( the one at the bottom right of the screen), not whatever player/streaming software he is using. The volume control on most keyboards is linked to the operating system volume, try that for a start. I just don't see any need for an external volume control when using an Ego, you simply need to spend a few minutes and make sure the resistor ladder in the Ego is responding to the control that you have selected. It should be relatively easy to pick at lower volumes, not so easy as the volume increases. Cheers Gary |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 9, 2016 15:29:14 GMT -5
The short answer is that it gets very complicated and it's sometimes difficult to tell exactly which way it's happening. The ladder volume control in the Egos is controlled by metadata from the computer. Some programs, like jRiver, are able to control it - at least when you choose the correct Volume Control option. Windows 10 seems to USUALLY control it directly with a lot of different programs (but I can;t promise it does so with EVERY program). The system Volume control in Windows 7 does not. In other situations, it's a lot more complicated, and can depend on what other programs are running at the time, and how Windows and your player program are configured. In general, if the volume control in your player is locked to the Volume setting in Windows, then there's a good chance you're using the Volume control in the Ego. And, if the volume in your program, like VLC, can be changed independently, and the system volume control doesn't move with it, then you're probably using a software volume control. You also need to know that various software volume controls work a lot better than others. For example, the Volume control in jRiver (when you pick the setting for software Volume control) still sounds fine. However, if you have the Windows mixer enabled (which is what you have when you pick "non exclusive mode" so you can hear music AND your computer beeps and boops out of your speakers), you're going through the WIndows mixer - which can really mess things up. I would also stress that, while the ladder volume control is a nice feature, and should yield some improvement in sound, it's far from the ONLY thing that matters. A good DAC through a middling volume control may still sound a lot better than a poor quality DAC with a great volume control. IN GENERAL, IN WINDOWS:
1) make sure you're using WASAPI mode 2) if it's an option, pick WASAPI EXCLUSIVE mode 3) if your program has a setting to synch its Volume control to the system Volume control, then pick that Actually only CERTAIN sources are able to control the ladder volume control in the DAC (one of those being jRiver). In general the system volume control is the better choice. Of course, the practical differences only matter significantly at very low volume settings (and, if it sounds fine, then it really doesn't matter - right?) Hmm, well if that's the case, then I must be misunderstanding how it works? I thought that if a media player changed it's volume, it was changing the volume internally, so windows would get a softer stream, whereas if you used OS volume you would be changing volume on device. Does JRiver actually change the windows OS overall volume (and thereby directly changing the Ego volume)? (at this point I'm a little confused - no worries, doesn't take much!) |
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Post by Loop 7 on Dec 9, 2016 18:51:19 GMT -5
The short answer is that it gets very complicated and it's sometimes difficult to tell exactly which way it's happening. The ladder volume control in the Egos is controlled by metadata from the computer. I would also stress that, while the ladder volume control is a nice feature, and should yield some improvement in sound, it's far from the ONLY thing that matters. A good DAC through a middling volume control may still sound a lot better than a poor quality DAC with a great volume control. IN GENERAL, IN WINDOWS:
1) make sure you're using WASAPI mode 2) if it's an option, pick WASAPI EXCLUSIVE mode 3) if your program has a setting to synch its Volume control to the system Volume control, then pick that Thanks for adding some much needed clarity even though I'm guessing you had done so in other threads. I will, in fact, not mention the lossy/lossless issue to the gift recipient. He is running Windows 10 and I'll make certain he follows your recommended configuration. The Schiit Fulla seems like an elegant solution but, to be honest, I prefer the way Emotiva voices their budget DACs (the upper end Schiit is awesome). |
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