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Post by RichGuy on Jan 2, 2017 19:27:55 GMT -5
A good power supply won't benefit much from a conditioner and slightly larger power supply. I think that line conditioners are highly overrated. But if you feel better in spending your money on it, go for it. I bet you couldn't tell the difference in a DBT though. Our favorite topic! I did a lot of testing, researching and auditioning of quite a few different power conditioners as well as power strips in my system when I bought mine. I have 11 components plugged into its 12 rear outlets, It has excellent filters, excellent protection, excellent isolation among my components, triggers some of my components completely OFF and others into standby and some with delays, features LED current monitoring of all or individual outlet banks, looks good as well as helps with my cable organization and my system sounds its best using this power conditioner. I tested around a dozen different power conditioners and strips with prices ranging from $20-$100 power strips and $99 - over $2,000 power conditioners. Some made my system sound worse while others improved the sound. The one I found which was best for me cost me $200 and I'm very happy with it. |
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Post by Jim on Jan 2, 2017 21:04:55 GMT -5
RichGuy - not to continue going too far OT -- but would you mind sharing what power conditioner you've found and like? Perhaps I've been too dismissive of power conditioners. I do have to admit that most are junk --- but I have seen the guts of some and do agree that the "capability" of cleaner power is there.
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Post by ac2011 on Jan 2, 2017 21:39:00 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. Seems I have (re)opened quite the discussion  As I noted in my original post, I assumed that Emotiva provided a cable that was sufficient for the unit, but it still seemed weird that it was just the ordinary 2-plug cord, rather than a 3-prong and bigger gauge. Even though I realize the BAS-X line is "more entry level", I kind of thought that all Emo amps would have more heavy duty cords on them. I plug all my Emo amps into the CMX-2's, so I'm thinking I don't necessarily have an issue with line interference. As for DIY, personally I don't have great confidence in my abilities to make my own electrical cord - I really don't want to burn my house down. |
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Post by RichGuy on Jan 2, 2017 22:41:00 GMT -5
RichGuy - not to continue going too far OT -- but would you mind sharing what power conditioner you've found and like? Perhaps I've been too dismissive of power conditioners. I do have to admit that most are junk --- but I have seen the guts of some and do agree that the "capability" of cleaner power is there. No problem, it's in my signature, my favorite and the power conditioner I am using is the Belkin PureAV PF60. It's no longer made but still can be found used and occasionally I see new ones come up available. It originally had an MSRP of around $800 but then dropped to $549 and was easy to find for around $200 it was even available for around $130 when it was being closed out. I see someone is trying to get over $1,200 for a new ones on ebay right now. Anyway it's a great power conditioner and I have still seen some good deals on them pop up occasionally. Oh and the front LCD is a great looking dimmable Emotiva blue and it looks great with Emotiva gear. Here's a pic with the inside. The right side are the six individual isolated banks going from picture bottom to top where the outlets are.  and a pic of the back panel.   |
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Post by novisnick on Jan 2, 2017 23:17:40 GMT -5
RichGuy - not to continue going too far OT -- but would you mind sharing what power conditioner you've found and like? Perhaps I've been too dismissive of power conditioners. I do have to admit that most are junk --- but I have seen the guts of some and do agree that the "capability" of cleaner power is there. No problem, it's in my signature, my favorite and the power conditioner I am using is the Belkin PureAV PF60. It's no longer made but still can be found used and occasionally I see new ones come up available. It originally had an MSRP of around $800 but then dropped to $549 and was easy to find for around $200 it was even available for around $130 when it was being closed out. I see someone is trying to get over $1,200 for a new ones on ebay right now. Anyway it's a great power conditioner and I have still seen some good deals on them pop up occasionally. Oh and the front LCD is a great looking dimmable Emotiva blue and it looks great with Emotiva gear. Here's a pic with the inside. The right side are the six individual isolated banks going from picture bottom to top where the outlets are. and a pic of the back panel. Yep! A really good piece of gear! Well built and was a bargain when I bought mine at almost full retail! |
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Post by leonski on Jan 3, 2017 0:20:52 GMT -5
My Panamax LISTED for around 1400$ and INCLUDES a 400va Isolation Transformer. This is a VERY good addition and I run several low-current pieces thru it including my DAC and small dish receiver.
Included with all the time delay features is a low and high voltage CUT OFF. Below about 95vac or above 135vac the conditioner shuts off.
The Panamax also has telephone I/O as well as f-connectors for cable and maybe small dish.
I find the voltage and current meters USELESS and turn the illumination off.
Also? The high current outlets tend to suck the life out of MOST amps so I skip that, too. Besides, my amps are into a separate 20amp circuit using a PSAudio Soloist Outlet. (about 200$ when available)
The BELKIN, pictured above looks REAL nice. The 5 little black boxes near the 'front' would appear to be time-delay relays. The ONLY thing I'd change on just this look is that inductors should be at right angles to
one another as much as is feasible. This prevents 'crosstalk' between them.
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Post by RichGuy on Jan 3, 2017 1:08:22 GMT -5
The PF60 has the telephone I/O also, they are dark in the pic but located just to the left of the f-connectors, one IN and two OUT.
One very nice thing about the PF60 is the amount of isolation it has, with six separate isolated filtered banks for the PF60, most others have one, two or three banks and four banks was the most I'd seen from any other model.
I use the PF60's two "High Current" outlets for both my XPA-2 and XPA-5 there is no degradation in the power or sound quality at all, most other models there was a very noticeable degradation using them for amps.
I also auditioned the top of the line Panamax and Furman models in my system and preferred the PF60.
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Post by leonski on Jan 3, 2017 1:28:24 GMT -5
Nice job. Just be ready to swap out the MOV surge protection devices at maybe the 10 or 15 year mark. This depends on how many times they are called upon to 'protect'.
Such devices are CHEAP (like commodity cheap) and easily replaced. Good luck getting the data from Belkin. I know Panamax simply WON'T tell me anything about my MOVs.
They DO wear out, and more quickly if given a few good ZAPs.
I'll trade some of YOUR features for the Iso Transformer.
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Post by RichGuy on Jan 3, 2017 2:29:05 GMT -5
While it is a smaller different style, I believe the Belkins iso transformer is found on the right, maybe I'm wrong. In any case I couldn't be any happier with the PF60 it worked the best of everything I tried and had the best specs as well. 7114 joules of surge protection, 369,000 amp maximum spike amperage and six isolated filtered banks, 2 outlets per bank. It also had the nicest sound with the best working high current outlets.  |
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Post by leonski on Jan 3, 2017 2:47:57 GMT -5
I like the layout. But NO, it doesn't have an iso transformer. Those transformers would appear to be for 'housekeeping'. Providing
drive for the time delay relays and juice for the display and associated electronics.
My small transformer of 400 VA is a TOROID of 5" or so in Diameter and is a fairly heavy chunk of iron.
When I sold TVs / Stereo, I always tried to get 'em to go home with SOME KIND of surge protection device. Even a 30$ one with minimal protection and no power conditioning is
much better than NOTHING and might save an expensive repair or junk-out.
I live in an area which DOES NOT have a lightning problem. Large summer demand CAN cause brownouts and we DID have a major outage (12 hours at my house) in 2011
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Post by RichGuy on Jan 3, 2017 3:07:02 GMT -5
Oh well pretty much every component in my system has its own toroid iso transformer both XPA amps, my processor, my XSP-1, and my MHDT Havana dac all have one, I think only my Panasonic display, HTPC and Oppo 103 don't have one of their own.
Yeah I have always had my systems protected with some kind of surge protection.
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Post by leonski on Jan 3, 2017 12:12:03 GMT -5
If I lived in Florida or some other place which was Non-Stop thunder storm, no doubt I'd ALSO have a whole-house surge protector. WHOLE HOUSE. The PC will have some kind of SMPS (Switch Mode Power Supply). This is the way EMO leaned with some of their new amp designs. Lighter with a few other characteristics. You have to be careful to keep the switching noise OUT of the audio part of the circuit for devices that use one. I think my PLASMA TV has one or more. I can hear them on my AM Radio out to maybe 25 or 30 FEET. When I shut the TV Off, the noise mostly disappears. An ISOLATION TRANSFORMER is unique. It features the SAME voltage OUT as IN. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformerHere's link to the WIKI. I have ZERO noise in my system, partly I hope, as a result of the ISO transformer 'lifting' the grounds. |
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Post by ac2011 on Jan 3, 2017 12:23:50 GMT -5
If I lived in Florida or some other place which was Non-Stop thunder storm, no doubt I'd ALSO have a whole-house surge protector. WHOLE HOUSE. I got a whole house surge protection a couple of years back. One of the Mike Holmes model - it takes up two breaker slots in my panel. Decided to install this after the circuit board on our dryer got fried when the tail end of a hurricane blew through our area - nothing like they get in Florida, of course (or Bermuda, where I lived for 5 years). |
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 3, 2017 12:32:09 GMT -5
Power Cables
Elrod Power Systems
Diamond
$10,000.00 / 7 foot length.....
I want to thank another poster here for this valuable info.
I mean....THIS IS THE ANSWER! I Just ordered 2 for both my XMC and my multichannel amp.
Can't wait until they get here
Bill
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Post by leonski on Jan 3, 2017 19:34:12 GMT -5
I see No Mention of the technology used in the Mike Holmes (EATON surge protector? is it MOV based?
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Post by RichGuy on Jan 3, 2017 21:06:53 GMT -5
I have ZERO noise in my system, partly I hope, as a result of the ISO transformer 'lifting' the grounds. Yes same here I go a little extra to make the noise floor of my system absolute black, the only thing you will ever hear was recorded to the source. |
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As I noted in my original post, I assumed that Emotiva provided a cable that was sufficient for the unit, but it still seemed weird that it was just the ordinary 2-plug cord, rather than a 3-prong and bigger gauge. Even though I realize the BAS-X line is "more entry level", I kind of thought that all Emo amps would have more heavy duty cords on them. I plug all my Emo amps into the CMX-2's, so I'm thinking I don't necessarily have an issue with line interference. As for DIY, personally I don't have great confidence in my abilities to make my own electrical cord - I really don't want to burn my house down.
