fmzip
Minor Hero
Posts: 85 
|
Post by fmzip on Jan 12, 2017 12:27:05 GMT -5
My current processor is an Anthem D1 with ARC with a 5.1 setup. What is there to be gained for me if I were to upgrade to the XMC-1? I plan to keep it 5.1 forever. My main first and foremost interest will always be 2.1 audio quality. Currently, I stream lossless hi res music out of my Oppo BDP-105 via analog out. What am i to gain with a newer process like the XMC-1? If I use Dirac for setup, do I do a full 5.1 setup, then do another 2.1 setup? I understand you can only load one at a time. How does one handle 2.1 audio with this piece? Is the 11 band PEQ usable like an old style graphic equalizer? Can you tinker with each setting while playing audio to hear the differences? Forgive my newb-ness, somewhat old-school here  |
|
|
|
Post by fbczar on Jan 12, 2017 14:02:15 GMT -5
My current processor is an Anthem D1 with ARC with a 5.1 setup. What is there to be gained for me if I were to upgrade to the XMC-1? I plan to keep it 5.1 forever. My main first and foremost interest will always be 2.1 audio quality. Currently, I stream lossless hi res music out of my Oppo BDP-105 via analog out. What am i to gain with a newer process like the XMC-1? If I use Dirac for setup, do I do a full 5.1 setup, then do another 2.1 setup? I understand you can only load one at a time. How does one handle 2.1 audio with this piece? Is the 11 band PEQ usable like an old style graphic equalizer? Can you tinker with each setting while playing audio to hear the differences? Forgive my newb-ness, somewhat old-school here Let me make sure I understand. You are using your Oppo 105 to send music to your Anthem processor via analog outputs, right? If you are doing that you are using the DAC in the Oppo 105. However, I am a bit confused. If you are using the Oppo 105 via analog connection how is it possible for ARC to work? If you used the same setup with the XMC-1 Dirac would not work. For the XMC-1 to utilize Dirac you would need to connect the Oppo 105 via HDM to the XMC-1, bypassing the XMC-1 DAC's, which I assume you are doing with your present setup's analog connection. Even though it is older, the Anthem is a near state of the art piece of equipment relative to its volume control and all the other things a preamp should do. Therefore, as a pure preamp for 2.1 it will be hard to beat in an analog set up. Do you have the latest version of ARC or is it the 2008 version the D1 was originally supplied with? Lets say you have a pretty good room and only lower frequencies need equalization. If so, and your version of ARC and the version of Dirac Full in the present XMC-1 have the same sampling rate I doubt the XMC-1 will offer much improvement for 2.1. If, on the other hand mid and high frequencies are a problem in your room Dirac could be a plus. I own an XMC-1 and use Dirac to set everything up in home theater mode. It works very well for stereo too, but it is possible to get better results for stereo with a measuring technique that utilizes the microphone pointed toward the stereo speakers rather than toward the ceiling as you would use for muti-channel systems. (At least this is what Dirac says). You are correct that you could do two Dirac measurements and switch them as necessary, but it would be a bit inconvenient. The XMC-1 does offer balanced stereo channels if you have balanced amps to take advantage of them, so that might be a plus for you. The DAC in the XMC-1, a Burr Brown DSD1796 sounds different than the ESS 9018 DAC in the Oppo 105. The Oppo is more detailed, the XMC-1 is more neutral. If budget is a concern you might consider a miniDSP unit with Dirac. That would give you a sampling rate of 96/24 instead of 48/24 and I believe you would be in good shape. All that said, the the XMC-1 is very convenient to use and it certainly sounds fantastic for both music and movies. I understand the upcoming XMC-2 may have 96/24 Dirac and the front three channels will all be balanced, plus you will have the option to use Atmos and DTS-X. That might be a better overall choice for you. It seems to me you will have great sound no matter what you decide. |
|
|
|
Post by qdtjni on Jan 12, 2017 15:32:36 GMT -5
The XMC-1 will provision Dirac for analogue input as long as the Dirac Preset is used any mode except Reference Stereo and Direct is used. |
|
|
|
Post by fbczar on Jan 12, 2017 15:58:31 GMT -5
The XMC-1 will provision Dirac for analogue input as long as the Dirac Preset is used any mode except Reference Stereo and Direct is used. According to Keith Levkoff of Emotiva the the 7.1 analog inputs of the XMC-1 cannot be processed by Dirac. Here is his post on the subject: The XMC-1 treats the 7.1 analog inputs as analog only - they are NOT converted into digital, and so cannot be processed in any way. (Most people use these inputs as a way to get audio from some other device which is already doing the processing - like from the analog outputs on an Oppo when they want to let the Oppo use its DACs and processing.) |
|
|
|
Post by qdtjni on Jan 12, 2017 18:28:51 GMT -5
The XMC-1 will provision Dirac for analogue input as long as the Dirac Preset is used any mode except Reference Stereo and Direct is used. According to Keith Levkoff of Emotiva the the 7.1 analog inputs of the XMC-1 cannot be processed by Dirac. Here is his post on the subject: The XMC-1 treats the 7.1 analog inputs as analog only - they are NOT converted into digital, and so cannot be processed in any way. (Most people use these inputs as a way to get audio from some other device which is already doing the processing - like from the analog outputs on an Oppo when they want to let the Oppo use its DACs and processing.) I forgot about the 7-1 inout since I never used it nor do I think I will. However, all the other analogue inputs can be used with Dirac Why are you assuming the 7.1 inputs are being used in the OPs case? |
|
fmzip
Minor Hero
Posts: 85
|
Post by fmzip on Jan 12, 2017 19:53:43 GMT -5
This says that ARC is performed on all analog and digital sources www.anthemav.com/downloads/ARC-1_PDS.pdfI have the latest 3.02 ARC software that I am using with the D1 So am I understanding this correctly, the XMC-1 cannot perform the same feat on the 6 channel output on the Oppo? It would only work if I used the HDMI/optical/digital? Here are my latest ARC results  |
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,867
|
Post by LCSeminole on Jan 12, 2017 22:33:19 GMT -5
So am I understanding this correctly, the XMC-1 cannot perform the same feat on the 6 channel output on the Oppo? It would only work if I used the HDMI/optical/digital? That is correct. The 7.1 input on the XMC-1 is a pure analog pass-through with volume control. Any bass management that you would want to perform would need to be done in your Oppo BDP-105 "Speaker Configuration" menu, as well as crossovers. |
|
|
|
Post by fbczar on Jan 13, 2017 0:47:02 GMT -5
According to Keith Levkoff of Emotiva the the 7.1 analog inputs of the XMC-1 cannot be processed by Dirac. Here is his post on the subject: The XMC-1 treats the 7.1 analog inputs as analog only - they are NOT converted into digital, and so cannot be processed in any way. (Most people use these inputs as a way to get audio from some other device which is already doing the processing - like from the analog outputs on an Oppo when they want to let the Oppo use its DACs and processing.) I forgot about the 7-1 inout since I never used it nor do I think I will. However, all the other analogue inputs can be used with Dirac Why are you assuming the 7.1 inputs are being used in the OPs case? Because the OP said he had connected his Oppo 105 via analog. There are two ways to do that. One way is to use the stereo analog inputs and the other is to use the 7.1 analog inputs. The most likely connection would be via the 7.1 inputs since it is reasonable to assume the OP would want to listen to music and to watch movies or play SACD's so he would want multichannel sound. The reason a person buys an Oppo 105 is to take advantage of its ESS DAC. The only way to do that is via the analog connections. Keith did not address the stereo inputs, but I cannot understand how any analog connection could work with Dirac either, but I stand to be corrected. |
|
|
|
Post by fbczar on Jan 13, 2017 1:02:41 GMT -5
This says that ARC is performed on all analog and digital sources www.anthemav.com/downloads/ARC-1_PDS.pdfI have the latest 3.02 ARC software that I am using with the D1 So am I understanding this correctly, the XMC-1 cannot perform the same feat on the 6 channel output on the Oppo? It would only work if I used the HDMI/optical/digital? Here are my latest ARC results You have a nice setup. ARC Is a very good program. I like Dirac a lot and could argue its virtues, especially the Dirac versions with higher sampling rates like the 96/24 in the upcoming XMC-2 and the 192/24 in the RMC-1. Even so ARC is a great program for subwoofers, and an Anthem D1 is often cited as direct competition, performance wise, for the XMC-1. I like the neutral sound of the DAC in the XMC-1, but the DAC in the Oppo is equally great. The two are just different. Obviously, you could buy an XMC-1 and use your Oppo 105 connected via analog for stereo and via hdmi to take advantage of the DAC is the XMC-1, for multichannel if you wanted to. I would advise downloading the XMC-1's operating manual and the companion Dirac manual. They are thorough and will give you a lot of good info as will folks like Keith at Emotiva. Best of luck. |
|
|
|
Post by fbczar on Jan 13, 2017 1:10:44 GMT -5
fmzip, I noticed your version of ARC does provide higher sampling rates than the version of Dirac Full in the XMC -1. I think that is a significant advantage. Also remember the standard XMC-1 will not play DSD downloads, only SACD's. However, the new $499.00 ATMOS upgrade also includes DSD capability.
|
|
|
|
Post by qdtjni on Jan 13, 2017 9:24:56 GMT -5
I forgot about the 7-1 inout since I never used it nor do I think I will. However, all the other analogue inputs can be used with Dirac Why are you assuming the 7.1 inputs are being used in the OPs case? Because the OP said he had connected his Oppo 105 via analog. There are two ways to do that. One way is to use the stereo analog inputs and the other is to use the 7.1 analog inputs. The most likely connection would be via the 7.1 inputs since it is reasonable to assume the OP would want to listen to music and to watch movies or play SACD's so he would want multichannel sound. The reason a person buys an Oppo 105 is to take advantage of its ESS DAC. The only way to do that is via the analog connections. Keith did not address the stereo inputs, but I cannot understand how any analog connection could work with Dirac either, but I stand to be corrected. Actually there are there are three ways to hook up the Opportunity 105, XLR, stereo RCA and through the 7.1 analogue out, but I get your point. As for analogue in with Dirac on the XMC-1, it just goes through the built-in ADC to the DSP with Dirac and then to the built in DAC. You just need to use the Stereo Mode with the Dirac speaker preset for that to happen. It's all the manual. |
|
|
|
Post by qdtjni on Jan 13, 2017 9:41:03 GMT -5
This says that ARC is performed on all analog and digital sources So am I understanding this correctly, the XMC-1 cannot perform the same feat on the 6 channel output on the Oppo? It would only work if I used the HDMI/optical/digital? Yes, you need to either of the digital outs (inc. HDMI) for multi-channel sound if you want to use Dirac. Then again, that avoids one extra DA and one extra AD conversion, which would have to be done for any analogue input if you want to use Dirac, ARC, or any other DSP. So if you use your Anthem with Oppo's 7.1 out and ARC, you first use the DAC in the Opportunity, then the ADC in the Anthem including possible re-sampling then the DSP in the same and finally the Anthem's DAC. |
|
fmzip
Minor Hero
Posts: 85
|
Post by fmzip on Jan 13, 2017 20:43:32 GMT -5
Thanks for all the input.
The best sound for music and DVDS come through the 6 channel analog out of the Oppo to the Anthem. When I switch to dig coax to the DVD input out from the Oppo instead, the sound pales in comparison.
Guess, the Anthem is going to stay in the cabinet for the time being. Maybe I'll snag up the XMC-1 when the prices drop further with their newer release
|
|
russb
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 5
|
Post by russb on Jan 16, 2017 17:26:21 GMT -5
I like Dirac a lot and could argue its virtues, especially the Dirac versions with higher sampling rates like the 96/24 in the upcoming XMC-2 and the 192/24 in the RMC-1. Wasn't the Atmos upgrade for the XMC-1 supposed to be capable of 96/24 Dirac? I thought Dan L had stated as much in a post earlier this year, although I can't find it now. I hope there wasn't a problem with either the hardware or the licensing. |
|
|
|
Post by fbczar on Jan 17, 2017 9:56:44 GMT -5
I like Dirac a lot and could argue its virtues, especially the Dirac versions with higher sampling rates like the 96/24 in the upcoming XMC-2 and the 192/24 in the RMC-1. Wasn't the Atmos upgrade for the XMC-1 supposed to be capable of 96/24 Dirac? I thought Dan L had stated as much in a post earlier this year, although I can't find it now. I hope there wasn't a problem with either the hardware or the licensing. That would be great if true, but I think the 96/24 is going to be reserved for the XMC-2. I know they said there would be Dirac for the new Atmos channels. I think it is a processing power issue. Maybe Keith can confirm? |
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,276
|
Post by KeithL on Jan 17, 2017 10:50:45 GMT -5
The Atmos upgrade for the XMC-1 will do Dirac Live on all channels at 48k. There MAY be a future upgrade that will allow it to do Dirac at 96k. Wasn't the Atmos upgrade for the XMC-1 supposed to be capable of 96/24 Dirac? I thought Dan L had stated as much in a post earlier this year, although I can't find it now. I hope there wasn't a problem with either the hardware or the licensing. That would be great if true, but I think the 96/24 is going to be reserved for the XMC-2. I know they said there would be Dirac for the new Atmos channels. I think it is a processing power issue. Maybe Keith can confirm? |
|
|
|
Post by fbczar on Jan 17, 2017 11:02:45 GMT -5
The Atmos upgrade for the XMC-1 will do Dirac Live on all channels at 48k. There MAY be a future upgrade that will allow it to do Dirac at 96k. That would be great if true, but I think the 96/24 is going to be reserved for the XMC-2. I know they said there would be Dirac for the new Atmos channels. I think it is a processing power issue. Maybe Keith can confirm? Keith, an upgrade to 96K would be a very big deal. Any word as to whether or not the XMC-2 or RMC-1 will be able to store multiple custom room curves? |
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,276
|
Post by KeithL on Jan 17, 2017 11:08:22 GMT -5
The world has indeed gotten a lot more complicated. While you can listen to the results of your PEQ changes while you make them, a PEQ is somewhat more complicated to operate than an old graphic equalizer. You should also be aware that some of the things you mentioned affect each other. For example, you're currently using the analog outputs on your Oppo BDP-105... which you may have chosen to do because you prefer the sound of the DACs in the Oppo. However, whenever you use the analog inputs in ANY preamp/processor, you are requiring that processor to convert the analog input to digital, apply the EQ, then convert it back. (This is also true if you use Dirac). This means that you are no longer listening to the DACs in the Oppo alone (your audio is being converted to analog by the Oppo, back into digital by the pre/pro, then back to analog again by the pre/pro). (In that situation you'd be better off using the DIGITAL output from the Oppo and letting the pre/pro just convert the signal once.) One of the advantages of moving up to the XMC-1 would be FLEXIBILITY. The XMC-1 offers three independent "presets" - two manual ones and one for Dirac. Each preset can be configured separately so, for example, you could set the Dirac preset to do 5.1 channel, manual preset #1 to be 2.1 channel (with bass management), and manual preset #2 to be Reference Stereo (which is pure analog with no processing). Another advantage is simply that the XMC-1 really does sound as good as a high quality analog preamp (which most other pre/pros do not). To configure the XMC-1 to do "2.1 audio" you simply set one of the presets to have "2 front speakers; 1 sub; and all other speakers=none. My current processor is an Anthem D1 with ARC with a 5.1 setup. What is there to be gained for me if I were to upgrade to the XMC-1? I plan to keep it 5.1 forever. My main first and foremost interest will always be 2.1 audio quality. Currently, I stream lossless hi res music out of my Oppo BDP-105 via analog out. What am i to gain with a newer process like the XMC-1? If I use Dirac for setup, do I do a full 5.1 setup, then do another 2.1 setup? I understand you can only load one at a time. How does one handle 2.1 audio with this piece? Is the 11 band PEQ usable like an old style graphic equalizer? Can you tinker with each setting while playing audio to hear the differences? Forgive my newb-ness, somewhat old-school here |
|
|
|
Post by fbczar on Jan 17, 2017 11:30:05 GMT -5
The world has indeed gotten a lot more complicated. While you can listen to the results of your PEQ changes while you make them, a PEQ is somewhat more complicated to operate than an old graphic equalizer. You should also be aware that some of the things you mentioned affect each other. For example, you're currently using the analog outputs on your Oppo BDP-105... which you may have chosen to do because you prefer the sound of the DACs in the Oppo. However, whenever you use the analog inputs in ANY preamp/processor, you are requiring that processor to convert the analog input to digital, apply the EQ, then convert it back. (This is also true if you use Dirac). This means that you are no longer listening to the DACs in the Oppo alone (your audio is being converted to analog by the Oppo, back into digital by the pre/pro, then back to analog again by the pre/pro). (In that situation you'd be better off using the DIGITAL output from the Oppo and letting the pre/pro just convert the signal once.) One of the advantages of moving up to the XMC-1 would be FLEXIBILITY. The XMC-1 offers three independent "presets" - two manual ones and one for Dirac. Each preset can be configured separately so, for example, you could set the Dirac preset to do 5.1 channel, manual preset #1 to be 2.1 channel (with bass management), and manual preset #2 to be Reference Stereo (which is pure analog with no processing). Another advantage is simply that the XMC-1 really does sound as good as a high quality analog preamp (which most other pre/pros do not). To configure the XMC-1 to do "2.1 audio" you simply set one of the presets to have "2 front speakers; 1 sub; and all other speakers=none. My current processor is an Anthem D1 with ARC with a 5.1 setup. What is there to be gained for me if I were to upgrade to the XMC-1? I plan to keep it 5.1 forever. My main first and foremost interest will always be 2.1 audio quality. Currently, I stream lossless hi res music out of my Oppo BDP-105 via analog out. What am i to gain with a newer process like the XMC-1? If I use Dirac for setup, do I do a full 5.1 setup, then do another 2.1 setup? I understand you can only load one at a time. How does one handle 2.1 audio with this piece? Is the 11 band PEQ usable like an old style graphic equalizer? Can you tinker with each setting while playing audio to hear the differences? Forgive my newb-ness, somewhat old-school here Keith, How would you do the setup of the preset for Reference Stereo? |
|
russb
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 5
|
Post by russb on Jan 17, 2017 14:14:02 GMT -5
The Atmos upgrade for the XMC-1 will do Dirac Live on all channels at 48k. There MAY be a future upgrade that will allow it to do Dirac at 96k. Arghh, well, I really appreciate you being honest about this. The reason I asked is, I ordered an XMC-1 during the Holiday Sale (the special offer with the older boards) based on the previous comment that the upgraded board would likely support 96/24. My unit is, I assume, still being built as I haven't gotten a shipping notice yet. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to seriously think about returning it, or trying to cancel the order before it ships, if the future 96/24 upgrade is only a maybe. I had really thought that I would be able to upgrade my way into the features that I'll be wanting needing in the next few years but if there's not going to be an upgrade path I should consider other options--including saving up for an XMC-2. EDITED TO ADD: What ended up being the holdup, was it Dirac licensing or getting it to run on the hardware? I'd assumed that the board would just be the same between the XMC-2 and the upgraded XMC-1 for simplicity's sake. |
|
