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Post by brutiarti on Feb 8, 2017 10:02:13 GMT -5
I had a few hours with the sonica. I'm not sure if i'm gonna keep this dac. It sounds good, little more natural and a tiny more instrument separation compared to the 105. But eventough it has a better 3d presentation and is more involving, it feels like the sweet spot is really small. If you move your head the sound dramatically changes and the speakers don't disappear anymore. Definitely need more time with it to articulate a little better.
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 8, 2017 10:11:07 GMT -5
Well I don't hear any switching noise and the DAC sounds as good or better than my DC-1 in the same set up. I am dissapointed that hi res files wireless transmitted from my Olive 4 through my Linksys Velum mesh network to the OPPO Sonica is not tolerable due to drop outs. But 44.1Khz stuff is great. I guess the high res part is supposed to take place through direct inputs!
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Post by badronald on Feb 8, 2017 10:13:38 GMT -5
I had a few hours with the sonica. I'm not sure if i'm gonna keep this dac. It sounds good, little more natural and a tiny more instrument separation compared to the 105. But eventough it has a better 3d presentation and is more involving, it feels like the sweet spot is really small. If you move your head the sound dramatically changes and the speakers don't disappear anymore. Definitely need more time with it to articulate a little better. I agree with ya! I think mine is going back. I think the 105 also has better transparency. I see you have a audio GD product. I've been comparing the Sonica to my Audio GD NFB-1.32 DAC and so fare the Audio GD wins. I will give the Sonica another 50hrs or so to see if it opens up. If if doesn't I will just continue to be happy with the Audio GD and may upgrade to the NFB-7 DAC. i Think Audio GD Stuff is really good. |
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Post by garbulky on Feb 8, 2017 13:28:10 GMT -5
That's a pity. I was hoping this was going to be a very nice DAC! brutiarti you likely need to optimise the speaker position o get a better sweet spot because you changed to a different DAC. |
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 8, 2017 14:20:11 GMT -5
That's a pity. I was hoping this was going to be a very nice DAC! brutiarti you likely need to optimise the speaker position o get a better sweet spot because you changed to a different DAC. I will play around with speaker placement while the sonica gets more hours. |
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Post by vneal on Feb 8, 2017 14:25:45 GMT -5
No dropouts, no hand shakes, internal DAC, internal memory, automatic downloads from J River program = Sony HAP Z1ES Media player
Now I will never know if this DAC or that DAC has a smaller sweet spot but then I don't have to screw with that or hand shake issues or drop outs
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 8, 2017 16:51:25 GMT -5
The sonica will not pass SACD either as DSD or a PCM conversion due to DRM. Bad news for me!
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 8, 2017 17:42:03 GMT -5
And a modern switching supply should operate at above-audible frequencies; so, even if it did make noise, only your dog, or perhaps a bat, will hear it. So this explains why my dog ran away and the pet bat I kept in the mancave killed himself trying to fly out of his cage after I bought my nCores! Mark |
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Post by novisnick on Feb 8, 2017 17:46:19 GMT -5
And a modern switching supply should operate at above-audible frequencies; so, even if it did make noise, only your dog, or perhaps a bat, will hear it. So this explains why my dog ran away and the pet bat I kept in the mancave killed himself trying to fly out of his cage after I bought my nCores! Mark Would that be in your Bat Cave?  |
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Post by vneal on Feb 8, 2017 18:03:09 GMT -5
Holy big screen Batman!
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 8, 2017 22:28:02 GMT -5
Would that be in your Bat Cave? If I told you, I'd have to kill you. Let's just leave it that...ok? FYI, Boomzilla is my local "helper". You... Haven't eaten or drank at his house lately...have you? If so...did it taste OK? Mark |
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 8, 2017 23:00:37 GMT -5
Tested the sonica with my headphone rig. Very good results. Actually kind of make sense with my initial findings regarding a small sweet spot.
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 9, 2017 1:06:21 GMT -5
Pea brain?  |
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 9, 2017 17:16:25 GMT -5
So this explains why my dog ran away and the pet bat I kept in the mancave killed himself trying to fly out of his cage after I bought my nCores! Mark Would that be in your Bat Cave? Crap Nick, you know better than to post stuff like that on this forum. Now someone here is going to say what an over opulent disgusting waste of money that theater is because there is no way it sounds good, which is of course always the most important thing to everyone. (insert negatively slanted sarcasm emogie here)  You forgot the opposing view.  Or what about this one?  Or this?  I've always been partial to this Nautilus one here.    |
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Post by novisnick on Feb 9, 2017 18:41:21 GMT -5
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Post by badronald on Feb 10, 2017 1:00:58 GMT -5
I really doubt that how it sounds (if you don't like it) has much to do with switching noise. ALL power supplies are subject to noise. Switching supplies CAN make noise at the frequency they switch at, or related frequencies. Linear power supplies CAN pass noise at the 60 Hz line frequency or multiples of it. And any regulator whatsoever DOES produce some minor amount of noise (random noise - just like the low level hiss in a power amp). However, with any power supply, if it's properly designed, the noise should be inaudible. (And a modern switching supply should operate at above-audible frequencies; so, even if it did make noise, only your dog, or perhaps a bat, will hear it.) I would also remind everyone that a streamer is basically a computer. This means that there's all sorts of digital processing going on inside it in order for it to work. (So, even if you disable the display, MOST of the digital circuitry inside must still be running or it wouldn't work.) Apparently you are the expert. The voltage is not what worries me or the display. I can give to rats about the display, all I care about is the sound. What worries me is the switching noise, not the voltage. I will be purchasing a Audio GD NFB-7 and this will be going back to Oppo. Well, You kinda answered why I prefer not to have a switching supply in audio gear. Switching supplies have output ripple. Even though it may be switching higher then we can hear, it can induce noise into the digital end of things and comprimise the audio at the other end. Sort of like how you don't want jitter in your digital stream. I'm not saying that this is the case with the sonica or why it doesn't sound any better the the 105, just an observation that i notice in the sonica box and I would prefer all linear supplies in such a product. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 10, 2017 9:52:17 GMT -5
All power supplies have some output ripple after the rectification stages. With linear supplies that noise is at 60 Hz or 120 Hz (or 50/100 for you Euro folks). This low frequency is somewhat difficult to filter out, and rather annoying to hear. With switching supplies, at least modern ones, this noise is at much higher - and usually ultrasonic - frequencies. Higher frequencies are much EASIER to filter out, but it requires more careful design to keep them from "creeping" into other nearby circuitry - because they capacitively couple and radiate better. However, in a headphone amp, the output of either type of power supply should be regulated anyway, which should remove any ripple of whatever type that finds its way through the supply. It's really more a matter that designing things that use switching supplies requires more careful design, and someone who is familiar with the design differences required to get it right. (If you accept that an equally well designed power supply of either type is going to have the same amount of hum or ripple, and that amount is small in a well built one, then you're better off with a tiny bit of noise you can't hear than with a tiny bit of noise that's highly audible and annoying hum. However, because more people are familiar with designing the old type of linear supply, it may not be a fair assumption that all devices with switching supplies will in fact be well designed... and the flaws in a sloppy design may take a little longer to notice.) I really doubt that how it sounds (if you don't like it) has much to do with switching noise. ALL power supplies are subject to noise. Switching supplies CAN make noise at the frequency they switch at, or related frequencies. Linear power supplies CAN pass noise at the 60 Hz line frequency or multiples of it. And any regulator whatsoever DOES produce some minor amount of noise (random noise - just like the low level hiss in a power amp). However, with any power supply, if it's properly designed, the noise should be inaudible. (And a modern switching supply should operate at above-audible frequencies; so, even if it did make noise, only your dog, or perhaps a bat, will hear it.) I would also remind everyone that a streamer is basically a computer. This means that there's all sorts of digital processing going on inside it in order for it to work. (So, even if you disable the display, MOST of the digital circuitry inside must still be running or it wouldn't work.) Well, You kinda answered why I prefer not to have a switching supply in audio gear. Switching supplies have output ripple. Even though it may be switching higher then we can hear, it can induce noise into the digital end of things and comprimise the audio at the other end. Sort of like how you don't want jitter in your digital stream. I'm not saying that this is the case with the sonica or why it doesn't sound any better the the 105, just an observation that i notice in the sonica box and I would prefer all linear supplies in such a product. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 10, 2017 10:13:37 GMT -5
The way the copy protection works ON PHYSICAL SACD DISCS is that players are forbidden from delivering a full quality copy of the digital original signal to you OVER AN UNSECURED CONNECTION. This means that a player that complies with the license requirements will either down-sample the audio or, more likely in a modern player, simply mute the S/PDIF (Coax or Optical) outputs when you play an SACD. This would presumably apply to USB as well, but, since there's no such thing as an SACD drive for a computer, it doesn't come up. The reason players like the Oppo can give you SACD audio as DSD or PCM over an HDMI connection is that, because the HDMI connection is encrypted, it is a SECURE connection, so it doesn't violate the license requirement. NOTE that this is a DRM requirement of PHSYICAL SACD DISCS. It does NOT apply to DSD or DSF files that you purchase and download, or to ones that you convert yourself, or to ones that someone else has ripped from an SACD after byassing the DRM protection. (In other words, physical SACD discs are protected from being ripped, and the protection is difficult to bypass.) Also NOTE that the new DoP (DSD over PCM) standard is still in its infancy. Most devices don't support it at all; and many that do support it ONLY support it over USB. In theory, DoP should allow you to send a DSD data stream via any standard PCM connection, including S/PDIF, but very few devices support that at the moment. Also NOTE that there are little black box devices that will extract the digital audio signal from an HDMI connection and give it to you in some other digital format. All of the legal ones down-sample the audio, or convert it to analog and re-convert it, both of which result in a much poorer quality than the original. There are almost certainly a few illegal ones, or ones that are sort of "grey area", that actually do give you a proper DSD data stream, or one that's been converted at full quality. I suspect that most of the ones you will find are the bad kind....  (Don't even ask; I don't know which ones do it correctly.  ) Also NOTE that, while it's outside the scope of this discussion, there ARE ways to rip an SACD at full quality - so there are lots of "real" bootleg SACD rips floating around. I will also interject my PERSONAL opinion on the subject, which is that DSD is NOT tehcnically superior to PCM, and so this is all a bit of a waste of time. While many SACDs do sound noticeably different than the CD versions of the equivalent content, I'm quite convinced it's either because they were mastered differently, or because DSDs really are capable of slightly better quality than CDs. (The sample rate on an SACD is roughly equivalent to 24/88k PCM, which is better than a CD, which is 16/44k PCM. However, the obvious solution is to use 24/96k PCM files instead of CDs and CD quality files.) Of course, if you have actual SACDs or DSD files, you are at least somewhat better off playing them as native DSD, and so bypassing an extra conversion before playing them. The sonica will not pass SACD either as DSD or a PCM conversion due to DRM. Bad news for me! |
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Post by goodfellas27 on Feb 12, 2017 0:38:51 GMT -5
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 12, 2017 8:07:48 GMT -5
Well, I am on a 90 day free trial with Tidal and it sounds great on the Sonica DAC! I did say that trying to stream some HD Tracks hi res music from a server on my home wireless system to the Sonica did not work out well, but copying those hi res files to a USB memory stick has resulted in excellent sound. I should have done this before just for back up purposes and easy portability. I may venture in to ripping my SACDs to DSD since I have an Oppo 103 which supposedly can do this with a little external software help.
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