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Post by StoneGlad on Feb 11, 2017 12:21:46 GMT -5
Keith:
I'm about to purchase 2 XPA-1 Gen 2's.
I currently have an XPR-5 on a dedicated 20AMP line.
I have a second dedicated 20AMP line with a Furman PF-20 20AMP power conditioner and than all of my other gear into the Furman (Mytek DAC, Aurender music server, oppo 105 disk player, cable box, Integra Pre/Processor, 3 100 watt linear power supplies, my 3 front Martin Logan electrostatic speakers,,,, and a 2100 Watt Martin Logan Descent i sub).
I have a 3rd dedicated 20AMP outlet (this one not behind my rack) which has a second Furman PF 20, and that has my Plasma TV a 2nd Martin Logan Descent i 2100 Watt sub, 2 side surround Martin Logan towers going into it.
Last, I do have a 4th 20AMP line, which IS NOT dedicated, it's the original line in my room and it's shared with about 5 other outlets and 3 hall lights (1970's electric:) ). Going into that line 4th non dedicated line, I have my Cable Modem, my Router, 2 Martin Logan Rear surround Towers, and the fan system for my rack (my thoughts were to remove as much unwanted noise as possible in system by putting these noisy items on the non-dedicated line, the 2 rear surround speakers were unavoidable since one of those 5 other outlets on this line is in the back of the room).
So,,,, my dilemma , where do a plug the 2 new XPA-1's into??
Do I even have enough available power on any of the 3 dedicated lines?
I don't think its a good idea to put them on the 4th non-dedicated line due to noise from router and fan and cable box?
Is it best for me to have an electrician install a fourth dedicated 20AMP line behind my rack??
Should I put the subs on the non dedicated line and put one XPA-1 into each of the Furman's or those outlets but into wall?
Can I put one of them on same line that has only the XPR-5 on it??
Ideally I know another dedicated line for the XPA-1's would be best, but the cost to install another line could be $800 -$900 (guesstimate), since it requires a very long and very difficult run of wire.
Thanks anyone for thoughts or help, but it seems like I need help with this decision!
Lastly, would it be better to not put the XPA-1's in my crowded rack and put them on Amp stands? I know it's better for heat, but I'm not sure about the aesthetics, this is a multi use room?
Thanks!!
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Post by garbulky on Feb 11, 2017 13:27:43 GMT -5
I'd stick it on the XPR-5 line 20 amp. Directly to the wall bypassing your furhmans. This way you bypass the components that are digital.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 11, 2017 14:29:12 GMT -5
If this helps, I have an XPR-2 and an XPR-5 on a dedicated 20a circuit, and it doesn't even begin to sweat at reference levels.
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Post by StoneGlad on Feb 11, 2017 16:00:58 GMT -5
If this helps, I have an XPR-2 and an XPR-5 on a dedicated 20a circuit, and it doesn't even begin to sweat at reference levels. Thanks for the input! Perhaps I'll put one in the XPR-5 line and one on the Furman line (direct to wall, but same outlet) , based on your experiences, seems like that may be fine? |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 11, 2017 16:07:47 GMT -5
If this helps, I have an XPR-2 and an XPR-5 on a dedicated 20a circuit, and it doesn't even begin to sweat at reference levels. Thanks for the input! Perhaps I'll put one in the XPR-5 line and one on the Furman line (direct to wall, but same outlet) , based on your experiences, seems like that may be fine? I think you'll be fine do that. |
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Post by StoneGlad on Feb 11, 2017 18:50:15 GMT -5
Thanks for the input! Perhaps I'll put one in the XPR-5 line and one on the Furman line (direct to wall, but same outlet) , based on your experiences, seems like that may be fine? I think you'll be fine do that. Hopefully, I'm sure an additional dedicated 20AMP line would be ideal, but the expense of an electrician added to the cost of the 2 XPA-1's (not to mention also needing 2 new upgraded power cords and 2 new XLR cables!), is all I can budget right now!! Now all I need to do is figure out how in the world I'm going to fit 2 XPA-1's into my rack which basically has no free space left in it to begin with😜 |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 11, 2017 19:05:41 GMT -5
Amp stands I've noticed in other Lounge members pictures are definitely an option!
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Post by pknaz on Feb 12, 2017 16:47:49 GMT -5
I think you'll be fine do that. Hopefully, I'm sure an additional dedicated 20AMP line would be ideal, but the expense of an electrician added to the cost of the 2 XPA-1's (not to mention also needing 2 new upgraded power cords and 2 new XLR cables!), is all I can budget right now!! Now all I need to do is figure out how in the world I'm going to fit 2 XPA-1's into my rack which basically has no free space left in it to begin with😜 Put the XPA-1's next to your mains, on amp stands, they're meant to be displayed proudly!  Unless you regularly are pushing the full power from the amps, you probably don't need dedicated circuits. I have an XPA-7, two XPA-2's, four Dayton SA1000's and all of my front end equipment on a single 15amp circuit. Perfectly capable of hitting over 100dbc on the meters with no distortion, though, the amps are barely hitting 25-30% output. |
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Post by StoneGlad on Feb 12, 2017 18:05:31 GMT -5
Hopefully, I'm sure an additional dedicated 20AMP line would be ideal, but the expense of an electrician added to the cost of the 2 XPA-1's (not to mention also needing 2 new upgraded power cords and 2 new XLR cables!), is all I can budget right now!! Now all I need to do is figure out how in the world I'm going to fit 2 XPA-1's into my rack which basically has no free space left in it to begin with😜 Put the XPA-1's next to your mains, on amp stands, they're meant to be displayed proudly! Unless you regularly are pushing the full power from the amps, you probably don't need dedicated circuits.  I have an XPA-7, two XPA-2's, four Dayton SA1000's and all of my front end equipment on a single 15amp circuit. Perfectly capable of hitting over 100dbc on the meters with no distortion, though, the amps are barely hitting 25-30% output. I regularly push my XPR-5 to full power!! I've even tripped the isolated / dedicated 20AMP line it's in a few times!! I have 6 Martin Logan top of the line Electrostatic Towers and the largest Martin Logan Electrostatic center and 2 Martin Logan Descent i subwoofers! All my speakers dip down to 1 OHMs and 2 OHMs, so the are power hungry beasts!! This is why I'm adding the two XPA-1's to get more power:) Amp Stands are an option, but unfortunately buying high end XLR Interconnect Cables that are 5vMeters (what I would need if Amps not in rack) cost a fortune! (Prob more than the pair of XPA-1's), so since I already have 1.5 meter Audioquest Columbia XLR's and the long expensive Audioquest Rocket Speaker Cables, I'd prefer to save the money and figure out how to squeeze these into my Rack:) I'll keep everyone posted and post pics once they arrive end of this week:) |
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Post by hooked on Feb 13, 2017 15:30:30 GMT -5
Nothing better than a full "rack"
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Post by hooked on Feb 13, 2017 15:30:58 GMT -5
Please send pictures
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Post by garbulky on Feb 13, 2017 15:40:04 GMT -5
Put the XPA-1's next to your mains, on amp stands, they're meant to be displayed proudly! Unless you regularly are pushing the full power from the amps, you probably don't need dedicated circuits. Â I have an XPA-7, two XPA-2's, four Dayton SA1000's and all of my front end equipment on a single 15amp circuit. Perfectly capable of hitting over 100dbc on the meters with no distortion, though, the amps are barely hitting 25-30% output. I regularly push my XPR-5 to full power!! I've even tripped the isolated / dedicated 20AMP line it's in a few times!! I have 6 Martin Logan top of the line Electrostatic Towers and the largest Martin Logan Electrostatic center and 2 Martin Logan Descent i subwoofers! All my speakers dip down to 1 OHMs and 2 OHMs, so the are power hungry beasts!! This is why I'm adding the two XPA-1's to get more power:) Amp Stands are an option, but unfortunately buying high end XLR Interconnect Cables that are 5vMeters (what I would need if Amps not in rack) cost a fortune! (Prob more than the pair of XPA-1's), so since I already have 1.5 meter Audioquest Columbia XLR's and the long expensive Audioquest Rocket Speaker Cables, I'd prefer to save the money and figure out how to squeeze these into my Rack:) I'll keep everyone posted and post pics once they arrive end of this week:) Well I got some bad news. The reasons the XPR-5's are tripping is because Emotiva amps are 2 ohm stable. Below 1 ohm (or maybe a bit less than that), I believe will trigger a trip of the protection circuits due to the impedance being too low. This doesn't necessarily mean you pushed the XPR-5 to full power but that the impedance dipped too low. The XPA-1's are fully balanced units. What this means is that unlike a non balanced amp (the XPR-5) it sees half the impedance. So 2 ohms it will see as 1 ohm. And 1 ohm it will see 0.5 ohms. It is stable in to 2 ohms putting out something huge like 1700 (!!) watts of power that that 2 ohm impedance but not stable at a whole lot less than that. Therefore if you are already tripping the XPR-5's, you may wind up tripping the XPA-1's more often. My friend used XPA-1 L's - which do not have as as robust of a power supply as the XPA-1's - and his $15k Martin Logan speakers tripped them due to impedance swings. Having said that the XPA-1's ARE fully balanced which means they completely eliminate a type of distortion that is present in the XPR-5, and it also has 60 watts of class A. Which means that up to 60 watts of power it will have no cross over notch distortion. Those features plus it's a monoblock and non class H power supply means it's "supposed" to be better sounding. Now is it? Well that's up to you to decide. But I was just throwing that out there in case you are wondering what's the point of the XPA-1's. Good luck! |
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Post by pknaz on Feb 13, 2017 21:37:28 GMT -5
I think you'll be fine do that. Hopefully, I'm sure an additional dedicated 20AMP line would be ideal, but the expense of an electrician added to the cost of the 2 XPA-1's (not to mention also needing 2 new upgraded power cords and 2 new XLR cables!), is all I can budget right now!! Now all I need to do is figure out how in the world I'm going to fit 2 XPA-1's into my rack which basically has no free space left in it to begin with😜 No cables are worth the price of an XPA-1 |
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Post by StoneGlad on Feb 13, 2017 23:31:23 GMT -5
I regularly push my XPR-5 to full power!! I've even tripped the isolated / dedicated 20AMP line it's in a few times!! I have 6 Martin Logan top of the line Electrostatic Towers and the largest Martin Logan Electrostatic center and 2 Martin Logan Descent i subwoofers! All my speakers dip down to 1 OHMs and 2 OHMs, so the are power hungry beasts!! This is why I'm adding the two XPA-1's to get more power:) Amp Stands are an option, but unfortunately buying high end XLR Interconnect Cables that are 5vMeters (what I would need if Amps not in rack) cost a fortune! (Prob more than the pair of XPA-1's), so since I already have 1.5 meter Audioquest Columbia XLR's and the long expensive Audioquest Rocket Speaker Cables, I'd prefer to save the money and figure out how to squeeze these into my Rack:) I'll keep everyone posted and post pics once they arrive end of this week:) Well I got some bad news. The reasons the XPR-5's are tripping is because Emotiva amps are 2 ohm stable. Below 1 ohm (or maybe a bit less than that), I believe will trigger a trip of the protection circuits due to the impedance being too low. This doesn't necessarily mean you pushed the XPR-5 to full power but that the impedance dipped too low. The XPA-1's are fully balanced units. What this means is that unlike a non balanced amp (the XPR-5) it sees half the impedance. So 2 ohms it will see as 1 ohm. And 1 ohm it will see 0.5 ohms. It is stable in to 2 ohms putting out something huge like 1700 (!!) watts of power that that 2 ohm impedance but not stable at a whole lot less than that. Therefore if you are already tripping the XPR-5's, you may wind up tripping the XPA-1's more often. My friend used XPA-1 L's - which do not have as as robust of a power supply as the XPA-1's - and his $15k Martin Logan speakers tripped them due to impedance swings. Having said that the XPA-1's ARE fully balanced which means they completely eliminate a type of distortion that is present in the XPR-5, and it also has 60 watts of class A. Which means that up to 60 watts of power it will have no cross over notch distortion. Those features plus it's a monoblock and non class H power supply means it's "supposed" to be better sounding. Now is it? Well that's up to you to decide. But I was just throwing that out there in case you are wondering what's the point of the XPA-1's. Good luck! To clarify, I have tripped my 20AMP circuit breaker a few times,, not tripped the XPR-5's internal protection (I've done that plenty of times too:) ). The XPR-5 is not fully balanced differential, but the soon to come XPA -1's are and all my other gear in the system is fully Balanced, so I'm definitely hoping that the XPA-1 monos will be more stable and drive my $15,000 Martin Logan's more efficiently then the XPR-5 is currently?? If your friend is tripping the XPA-1L's , that makes sense, they are no where near as powerful as the XPA-1's. My Martin Logans are rated as 4 OHM's but I've read numerous places that they're notorious for dipping down to 2Ohms at peaks , and in some rear instances could even dip down into 1 Ohm. I do play them with dual stereo sub-woofers too, so hopefully that helps with some stress in the Amps (usually crossed over about 60). What I was asking about was if they (the XPA-1's should be on their own dedicated 20AMP line, just as my XPR is currently, from what you've stated, it seems like that may be the best and most stable solution for me? Unfortunately, this means hiring an electrician again, which is expensive, but I don't trust myself to add a new circuit breaker into my breaker box (I do have the experience/ ability to Fisch the very long 12 AWG MC wire (my place is all MC / commercial grade electric, not ROMEX, it's code in my City for any building higher than 3 stories). I also can hook up and install the outlets, etc, but I've never gone inside the breaker box, and don't intend to, that's just too scary for me! |
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Post by StoneGlad on Feb 13, 2017 23:35:50 GMT -5
Pictures of my current rack without the XPA-1's? I won't get them until Friday or Monday? How do I add a picture in this forum?? |
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Post by garbulky on Feb 14, 2017 0:03:48 GMT -5
I'm not entirely sure what you are asking. There is nothing more efficient about fully balanced. However because it is fully balanced - a good thing because of its ability to cancel distortion - it also sees things at half the impedance. In that case, the XPR-5 .... may be a better choice - in terms of impedance - who knows?! See the XPR-5 and the XPA-1's are two different amps entirely. So it's not apples to apples comparison. So I don't have an answer other than who knows! I haven't heard of anybody having trouble with the XPA-1s and it can do a ginormous 1750 watts at 2 ohms. So hopefully you won't encoutner trouble with them. I love my XPA-1's and I think the fully balanced class A architecture coupled to a ginormous power supply and overkill everything else (!) gives it an edge. But here I am talking about sound quality in to my speakers. Not Martin Logans. And not about sheer volume. I don't know what it's like on Martin Logans. All I can say is it is a beast of an amp. And the best most transparent amp I've heard in my system. I hope your results are the same. But I cannot predict such a thing. Hope that helps. As to the 20 amp circuit. I think you probably have more than enough power. Though you have mentioned you've tripped the breaker. So who knows you may not. But I think honestly you'll do just fine Most of the time you'll be listening at about a watt or two of power at best. I heard the 15k Martin Logans I mentioned being driven using a 12 watt tube amp to reasonably loud volumes. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 19:42:01 GMT -5
Ok Stone this one's for you. I had to take a picture of my XPA-1's (Gen-2) sitting on Salamander amp stands with the Stiletto legs. Just so you could see how sexy these babies are. Amp stands are the way to go. They look all Audiofilish. Hope the pics help with your decision.  |
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Post by StoneGlad on Feb 15, 2017 20:44:24 GMT -5
Ok Stone this one's for you. I had to take a picture of my XPA-1's (Gen-2) sitting on Salamander amp stands with the Stiletto legs. Just so you could see how sexy these babies are. Amp stands are the way to go. They look all Audiofilish. Hope the pics help with your decision. View AttachmentThanks Chappie!! The look great! I actually just received my pair of XPA-1's and I have just unboxed them and have them sitting on the floor next to each speaker, and I agree, they look nice even without Amp stands. So, I may go that route, the only issue for me is that I will need to buy expensive 5Meter long XLR cables and buy new speaker wire if I decide to put them on amp stands, whereas if I squeeze them in my rack, I already own good Audioquest XLR cables and Audioquest speaker wire that is the correct length if they go in my rack, so this is no my dilemma:) |
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Post by StoneGlad on Feb 15, 2017 20:46:17 GMT -5
Ok Stone this one's for you. I had to take a picture of my XPA-1's (Gen-2) sitting on Salamander amp stands with the Stiletto legs. Just so you could see how sexy these babies are. Amp stands are the way to go. They look all Audiofilish. Hope the pics help with your decision. View AttachmentChappie: Another Question for you, what are you using for power cables and interconnects with your XPA-1's? |
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Post by garbulky on Feb 15, 2017 21:56:12 GMT -5
make sure u have ventilation
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