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Post by copperpipe on Feb 21, 2017 19:58:30 GMT -5
My sparkling new sub 8 was just delivered this afternoon. I'm far from being a reviewer but thought I'd leave some comments anyway.
First - the reason I picked this sub. I never listen to loud music. I listen to mostly classical music, including organ music. I do have a mix of country, dance, and light rock that I listen to from time to time. But mostly classical, and movies. So my goal was to simply extend the bass on my bookshelfs. I don't need loud volume levels, but I do want more in the bottom end.
My setup is a linux computer running VLC, DAC is Emotiva Big Ego, then into a passive volume knob, then into a pair of Mini-X A-100's. Bookshelfs are Kef R300. I vertically bi-amp simply because through a series of events (which I won't get into) I ended up with 2 mini's, and I figured I may as well use the extra power since it's there now anyway. I have rca splitters connected to the volume knob "out", the splitters are used to split the left into 2 left channels, and the right into 2 right channels; the 2 left channels go into 1 mini, the 2 right into the other mini. The sub inputs are then connected to the "output" jacks on the minis. So the volume knobs on the mini's and the sub are "set and forget", and the main/passive volume knob on my desk nicely controls both minis and sub at the same time.
The mini's/Kef's do most music perfectly well on their own. Bass is tight, exceptionally clean, and quite deep for a bookshelf. I do miss the lower frequencies mainly in movies and organ music. The sub 8 fills this gap very nicely. It plays much lower than I had anticipated, and I'm now getting what I consider a "full range" of sound. Others will disagree, based on spec, especially if you crave bass. But it does dig quite deep for it's size, pretty much indistinguishable from my ultra 12 which is also in the same room (though attached to a different system). The only difference I've heard so far is that the ultra 12 can get louder.
A word of caution, it will distort at high volumes. At these volumes the mini's and kefs are still playing somewhat effortlessly, so the system is a little unbalanced that way. But these are volumes I never ever reach. I've been listening to random music for about 2 hours now, and most of the time I can't tell the sub is on. But every once in a while there comes a track (ace of base, organ) which would have been lacking before, and is now clear and played back with authority.
This is "the little sub that can", provided you match your expectations with reality. Keeping in mind that it's an 8 inch driver, 150 watts, for $200 - operating within its limits, it sounds very, very nice. I don't hear the port noise, droning, or sloppy bass that is typically found in entry level subs. The bass is smooth and quite tight. Bass/party junkies will obviously need bigger guns.
Do I wish I had gone bigger? Depends... you can always find something that is bigger and better and more powerful, but I have a budget and goals for things other than audio, so I waited and waited until I found a sub that would hopefully work for me with a price that I could afford. The sub 8 does it very well. At some point I will probably upgrade, but in the meantime I have a system which is a joy to listen to.
No regrets.
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Post by niuguy on Feb 21, 2017 21:53:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the review. I'm interested in hearing more from Emotiva sub buyers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 11:33:38 GMT -5
Thanks copperpipe for your honest evaluation. I particularly like your "The Little Sub That Can" descriptor, as that's always been my impression of its performance. It reminds me very strongly of the old STF-1 from HSU (no longer available), and I had that in the back of my mind as I was designing the cabinet, although we provide more power and play deeper.
The bigger BasX models, 10" and 12", will play louder, cleaner, than the 8" model does. No surprise there - more watts, more driver in the bigger models. However, in terms of "depth" of bass, only the 12" model has a clear edge over the 8"; the 10" and 8" are evenly matched for bass extension, with the 10" providing more "punch". The 8" model plumbs down to the upper 20's with ease, so with most music - even electronic music - you won't miss anything. I feel the S8 model turned out quite well, and it is the true sleeper of the line at its price point. It's even affordable enough that you can play with multi-sub arrangements like the ones recommended by Toole and Geddes, without breaking the bank.
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Post by copperpipe on Feb 22, 2017 12:13:01 GMT -5
I feel the S8 model turned out quite well, and it is the true sleeper of the line at its price point. It's even affordable enough that you can play with multi-sub arrangements ... Now you're just tempting me ...   |
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Post by copperpipe on Feb 22, 2017 12:17:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the review. I'm interested in hearing more from Emotiva sub buyers. It's a brand new line, I'm probably one of the first to get it, so that's why I thought I'd leave a few comments since I also kind of depend on forum members for reviews and info on other stuff here. Would be nice to have more comparison reviews though. Not just reviewing X, but X vs Y vs Z; eg basX 8 vs basX 10 etc. |
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Post by novisnick on Feb 22, 2017 12:28:16 GMT -5
I feel the S8 model turned out quite well, and it is the true sleeper of the line at its price point. It's even affordable enough that you can play with multi-sub arrangements ... Now you're just tempting me ... twins are twice as much Fun! |
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Post by vneal on Feb 22, 2017 13:13:36 GMT -5
JL Audio----subs
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Post by copperpipe on Feb 22, 2017 15:15:48 GMT -5
We're all welcome to our own opinion... but their cheapest sub is an 8 inch for $800. At that price, I can move up into Emotiva's 12 inch airmotiv and still save $100. So Emotiva's most expensive sub is still cheaper than the least expensive JL Audio. I'm not enough of a bass head to justify a 4 times increase in cost, even if their subs are 4 times better than E's stuff (which remains to be seen). |
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Post by beardedalbatross on Feb 22, 2017 18:35:59 GMT -5
Thanks for your impressions. I may pick up a BasX S8 (or two of them). Currently I'm using two of the BasX S10 subs and enjoy them. My criticism would not be with the sound quality but with the "auto" feature. There is a noticeable *click every time they turn on from standby. Not a problem but they seem to turn on and off pretty dang often. Pretty distracting when I was watching Neon Demon. I may have to switch them both on before every movie.
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Post by copperpipe on Feb 22, 2017 21:05:49 GMT -5
That's odd, I don't hear any click when mine turns on; it's just "on" all of a sudden and playing music. My mini's make and audible click, which sounds like a relay clicking. Never ever bothered me though.
Actually one other thing I wanted to point out is that this sub has crossover dial, phase dial, and line outputs. So pretty nice features for an entry level sub!
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Post by beardedalbatross on Feb 22, 2017 23:18:36 GMT -5
That's odd, I don't hear any click when mine turns on; it's just "on" all of a sudden and playing music. My mini's make and audible click, which sounds like a relay clicking. Never ever bothered me though. Actually one other thing I wanted to point out is that this sub has crossover dial, phase dial, and line outputs. So pretty nice features for an entry level sub! It sounds similar to a relay clicking but more....satisfying. Like I said, wouldn't have a problem with the noise at all if they stayed on for like a half hour. Nowhere near enough of a deal-breaker to have returned them. The line outputs are definitely nice to have since I can very easily link the two subs. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 10:10:05 GMT -5
That's odd, I don't hear any click when mine turns on; it's just "on" all of a sudden and playing music. My mini's make and audible click, which sounds like a relay clicking. Never ever bothered me though. Actually one other thing I wanted to point out is that this sub has crossover dial, phase dial, and line outputs. So pretty nice features for an entry level sub! It sounds similar to a relay clicking but more....satisfying. Like I said, wouldn't have a problem with the noise at all if they stayed on for like a half hour. Nowhere near enough of a deal-breaker to have returned them. The line outputs are definitely nice to have since I can very easily link the two subs. The BasX 10 and 12 do have an internal relay on the amplifier output, to suppress turn-on transients. You should not hear a 'pop' sound from the driver but with your ear close to the unit you may hear the relay click when the unit powers on. This should only occur after 15-30 minutes of silence where no signal is sent to the subwoofer. If it is objectionable, you can set the amplifier to the "on" state; because the amplifier is Class-D, power draw in the "on" state is also extremely low - only a few watts - unless there is a low frequency signal present. The "auto" mode is only needed to meet EU requirements for power usage so we can sell our products globally. |
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Post by garbulky on Feb 23, 2017 10:21:01 GMT -5
Nice review! Do you think it kept up in definition of its sound with the KEFs or did you notice when the bass came in? Like it's not as defined? I have considered the sub 8 due to its price but m worry was exactly what you mentioned about it running out of head room. The Axiom m80 speakers I use are slightly larger than medium towers and have significant slam and dynamics especially wit m XPA-1's. However with all the room treatments, they have lost a bit of the low end and I've been wanting something to fill it out and get that botom octave (below 40 hz) back with authority. If I do get subs, it will be two of them one per speaker and them having the 8's it would be like adding an 8 inch woofer per speaker. However could it keep up is m question when dynamics get loud? What if I got four of them?! Two per speaker? Do you think then that issue of running out of head room would come up? I assume not... but I would want the same bass definition the m80's can do. So if you were really really critical... how much definition do these have? How big are they? Also I see they are rated to only 28 hz which is I guess lower than what I've got but not quite filling out that last octave. But I guess if it sounds pretty strong down to there I may be satisfied. My other alternative has been two of these www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/sealed-subwoofers/products/15sThe sealed 15" units. But two of them run up at about 1600! Though it will guarantee me full range sound...they are also big and my living room does not have much space in it for two. They will have to go behind my couch with lots of disapproving spousal shade thrown my way. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 11:24:14 GMT -5
Hello garbulky,
Lots of questions.
Using multiple subwoofers (4 or more) is actually recommended by two experts, Floyd Toole (Harman) and Earl Geddes, for obtaining flatter in-room frequency response. Driving the room's acoustics from multiple points reduces the impact of room modes because the modes as driven from different points partially cancel each other out while the output from the subwoofers themselves is additive. Toole recommends placing the subwoofers in the four corners of the room, and Geddes recommends random placement. I think a good compromise between the two is to place two subwoofers in the front corners, or along the front wall an equal distance from the corners, and then place the other two subwoofers about 2/3 of the way back along the side walls. If you have a home theater processor like the XMC-1 that can process bass management for stereo subwoofers, then you could connect the subs along the left side as left channel subs, and the subs along the right side as right channel subwoofers. Beyond four subwoofers, more subs will obtain flatter bass response throughout the room but eventually there would be diminishing returns.
Two BasX S8 subwoofers per speaker (four total) should be able to keep up with any main speaker. Regarding bass depth, your room will also provide some support to the subs in the bottom octave, and the BasX S8 subs sound like they play lower than they do. What they will not do is outplay a pair of 15" powered subs. Four 8" drivers roughly approximate a 15" driver for cone area (not quite 16") but their excursion will also be more limited so overall displacement will be a bit less, although the four smaller drivers can more efficiently drive their respective boxes because there is a greater ratio of motor force to cone area. The 15" sub will probably play somewhat lower. Bass definition from the 8" drivers is actually excellent, so with careful integration with your main speakers I don't think you would sacrifice "slam".
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 23, 2017 11:36:07 GMT -5
Hello garbulky, Lots of questions. Using multiple subwoofers (4 or more) is actually recommended by two experts, Floyd Toole (Harman) and Earl Geddes, for obtaining flatter in-room frequency response. Driving the room's acoustics from multiple points reduces the impact of room modes because the modes as driven from different points partially cancel each other out while the output from the subwoofers themselves is additive. Toole recommends placing the subwoofers in the four corners of the room, and Geddes recommends random placement. I think a good compromise between the two is to place two subwoofers in the front corners, or along the front wall an equal distance from the corners, and then place the other two subwoofers about 2/3 of the way back along the side walls. If you have a home theater processor like the XMC-1 that can process bass management for stereo subwoofers, then you could connect the subs along the left side as left channel subs, and the subs along the right side as right channel subwoofers. Beyond four subwoofers, more subs will obtain flatter bass response throughout the room but eventually there would be diminishing returns. Two BasX S8 subwoofers per speaker (four total) should be able to keep up with any main speaker. Regarding bass depth, your room will also provide some support to the subs in the bottom octave, and the BasX S8 subs sound like they play lower than they do. What they will not do is outplay a pair of 15" powered subs. Four 8" drivers roughly approximate a 15" driver for cone area (not quite 16") but their excursion will also be more limited so overall displacement will be a bit less, although the four smaller drivers can more efficiently drive their respective boxes because there is a greater ratio of motor force to cone area. The 15" sub will probably play somewhat lower. Bass definition from the 8" drivers is actually excellent, so with careful integration with your main speakers I don't think you would sacrifice "slam". Regarding your comment about a 15" sub will "probably play somewhat lower" - Being one using a sealed sub with a 15" driver (PSA), what would you say would be a practical or real world difference I'd hear with the 15" going lower, versus the smoothing effect of using 4 of the 8" subs? |
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Post by copperpipe on Feb 23, 2017 13:04:16 GMT -5
Nice review! Do you think it kept up in definition of its sound with the KEFs or did you notice when the bass came in? Like it's not as defined? I have considered the sub 8 due to its price but m worry was exactly what you mentioned about it running out of head room. The Axiom m80 speakers I use are slightly larger than medium towers and have significant slam and dynamics especially wit m XPA-1's. However with all the room treatments, they have lost a bit of the low end and I've been wanting something to fill it out and get that botom octave (below 40 hz) back with authority. If I do get subs, it will be two of them one per speaker and them having the 8's it would be like adding an 8 inch woofer per speaker. However could it keep up is m question when dynamics get loud? Very hard to say; the bass on the these kefs is terrific, not for depth (first of all), but for how clean and well defined it is. I think they definitely have the edge yet over the sub 8, but I haven't really had time yet to play with sub placement, and my room is in dire need of room treatments, so the sub could probably improve yet in that area. It's actually quite good though "as is" already. I feel it's probably a worse match for full standing (and powerful) speakers due to headroom and sheer volume differences, but maybe the multiple subs can help with that (never had more than 1 sub in my system at a time). For bookshelfs or small towers, the sub 8 is a great match. I've never chased the bottom hz, and as a "connoisseur" (  ) of organ music I'm probably one that would really notice a sub putting out 16 hz. The depth of the sub 8 is far enough for me, can't say I'm lacking in depth at all. |
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Post by slowrey on May 26, 2017 0:16:24 GMT -5
I just got my S8 today and it's perfect size for my office. Gives a bit of low end for my NHT SuperZero 2.1's and tomorrow I get to crank it a bit, tonight the baby is sleeping.
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Post by Boomzilla on May 28, 2017 7:27:13 GMT -5
Regarding...a 15" sub will "probably play somewhat lower" - Being one using a sealed sub with a 15" driver (PSA), what would you say would be a practical or real world difference I'd hear with the 15" going lower, versus the smoothing effect of using 4 of the 8" subs? I can't comment on PSA's sealed subs (which, theoretically, should be able to go slightly lower in frequency response), but I do own two PSA XV-15s. I also, currently, have a pair of Emotiva BASX S12s in the house. My "head to head" conclusion - No significant difference. So you can buy TWO Emotiva S12s for less than the price of a single PSA-XV-15. BUT (and this is significant to some) - the two XV-15s will play louder than the Emotivas. It is NOT significant to me, and so I'd recommend the Emotiva subs for most folks. OTOH, if you're trying to power a cathedral-sized room and/or like your bass at outrageous levels, then the bigger (and more expensive) subs are probably justified. Boom |
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Post by monkumonku on May 28, 2017 14:59:18 GMT -5
Regarding...a 15" sub will "probably play somewhat lower" - Being one using a sealed sub with a 15" driver (PSA), what would you say would be a practical or real world difference I'd hear with the 15" going lower, versus the smoothing effect of using 4 of the 8" subs? I can't comment on PSA's sealed subs (which, theoretically, should be able to go slightly lower in frequency response), but I do own two PSA XV-15s. I also, currently, have a pair of Emotiva BASX S12s in the house. My "head to head" conclusion - No significant difference. So you can buy TWO Emotiva S12s for less than the price of a single PSA-XV-15. BUT (and this is significant to some) - the two XV-15s will play louder than the Emotivas. It is NOT significant to me, and so I'd recommend the Emotiva subs for most folks. OTOH, if you're trying to power a cathedral-sized room and/or like your bass at outrageous levels, then the bigger (and more expensive) subs are probably justified. Boom Thanks. Volume is not a big deal to me either as my PSA sub goes much louder than I ever care to hear it. For my room it is plenty but I always start getting ideas whenever Emo comes out with some new stuff.  |
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Post by garbulky on May 28, 2017 15:09:41 GMT -5
B'zilla, I think there is a difference between the two. The two subs sound quite different though granted they were placed differently. The Basx was more punchy while the PSA was...well it was two PSA's! Those subs are insane! I was most surprised at the resolution of the basx S12 though.
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) of organ music I'm probably one that would really notice a sub putting out 16 hz. The depth of the sub 8 is far enough for me, can't say I'm lacking in depth at all.
