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Post by soundharvest on Mar 8, 2017 23:09:02 GMT -5
I wanted the warmth of tubes in my rig, so i did some research and purchased a Yaqin CD3 Tube buffer. Im running it between my Denon preamp and XPA 100's. Love the sound, pardon the dust please. I had to take down my stereo and relocate to my basement. House is getting rehabbed   |
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Post by pedrocols on Mar 8, 2017 23:43:21 GMT -5
There is not an alternative. Stick with the real thing. I am being bias of course.
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Post by unsound on Mar 9, 2017 0:02:04 GMT -5
There is not an alternative. Stick with the real thing. I am being bias of course. At least you're self-biasing  |
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Post by vneal on Mar 9, 2017 3:29:05 GMT -5
I guess if the sound is pleasing to you that is all that matters. Back in the day I used a DBX 3BX Range expander and liked the results
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 9, 2017 8:10:44 GMT -5
The Yaqin is an inexpensive way to determine whether one likes "tube sound" or not. I do, but not exclusively. For my Tekton Pendragons, tubes sound better. But for my KEF LS50s, the Emotiva PT-100 driving the Crown PSA-2 rules.
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Post by bluemeanies on Mar 9, 2017 9:35:25 GMT -5
The Yaqin is an inexpensive way to determine whether one likes "tube sound" or not. I do, but not exclusively. For my Tekton Pendragons, tubes sound better. But for my KEF LS50s, the Emotiva PT-100 driving the Crown PSA-2 rules. Well I heard the KEF's 50's at the NEW YORK AUDIO SHOW a few years ago when they were being introduced into the market and the setup driving them were TUBES. It was a very large room and sound from those speakers 🔊 and Tubes filled the entire space. In addition there were high ceilings. I do not remember what brand tube amplifier or pre but I am sure the pre was SS. The cost for the entire setup was 5k. Again it comes down to what an individual hears and what they like. |
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Post by mgbpuff on Mar 9, 2017 13:30:07 GMT -5
It doesn't matter what produces pure sine waves and enough of them - you'll like it when you hear it!
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Post by drtrey3 on Mar 9, 2017 13:58:16 GMT -5
Mmm, not so sure I agree. Most of my tube amp listening is through a guitar amp actually, but there are large differences between solid state and tube amps to my and many guitarists ears. Now some of that is the sound of tube distortion, for some of us at least, and I have never been close enough to a sine wave to pet one, but musicians notice differences between tube and solid amplification.
Trey
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Post by mgbpuff on Mar 9, 2017 14:07:28 GMT -5
Musicians like any noise THEY make! And, a guitar amplifier is a source creation device, not a source replication device!
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Mar 9, 2017 14:12:32 GMT -5
There's a big difference between a guitar amp and a high fidelity amp. And there's a big difference between PRODUCING music and REPRODUCING music. When you play an electric guitar, the sound of the amplifier is part of the sound of the music. A guitar amp is supposed to distort; that's what gives each guitar amp its character; it's also why they have all sorts of options to control and modify the distortion. (If you didn't want the distortion from the amp and speaker, then you could just jack your guitar straight into the mixer.... ) And the sound typical tube circuits make when they distort is VERY differently from the sound most solid state circuits make. A perfectly clean tube amp would sound exactly the same as a perfectly clean solid state amp - because clean is clean. Of course, it's not just the amplifier; the speakers in the guitar amp also have a characteristic sound, also usually because of how and how much they distort. But, of course, by definition, the distortion your guitar amp makes is PART OF THE MUSIC. Just like the strings you pick, and the pickups you use, whatever sounds right to the musician is what's right.... HOWEVER, when you're reproducing music, the goal is to NOT change the sound, but to deliver it exactly as it was recorded. And, while guitar amps are designed to have a characteristic sound, hi-fi amps are supposed to sound neutral. Well, some people don't seem to agree with that, but most audiophiles consider that the job of the amplifier is to recreate the original sound, without editorializing on it. (Even most audiophiles who like tube equipment usually claim that it makes music sound "more like the original", by replacing or adding something that they believe is missing from the recording.) Mmm, not so sure I agree. Most of my tube amp listening is through a guitar amp actually, but there are large differences between solid state and tube amps to my and many guitarists ears. Now some of that is the sound of tube distortion, for some of us at least, and I have never been close enough to a sine wave to pet one, but musicians notice differences between tube and solid amplification. Trey |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 9, 2017 14:15:02 GMT -5
Schiit Audio also has several inexpensive tube pieces.... Including the Lyr (which sounds quite tubey) and their new Saga. The Yaqin is an inexpensive way to determine whether one likes "tube sound" or not. I do, but not exclusively. For my Tekton Pendragons, tubes sound better. But for my KEF LS50s, the Emotiva PT-100 driving the Crown PSA-2 rules. |
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Post by drtrey3 on Mar 9, 2017 14:53:13 GMT -5
I agree, but think you guys are missing the point. Musicians prefer one type of amp over the other because they sound different! Sound creation, sound reproduction, whatever, they sound different, we agree, which is incompatible with the pure sine wave hypothesis.
Trey
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 9, 2017 15:35:24 GMT -5
Well, drtrey3, you just hung the "kick me" sign on your own bootie. There is a HUGE difference between music creation and music reproduction. You can use any amp you want to create music, and distort it to the high heavens if you think it sounds better that way. But music REPRODUCTION is about fidelity to the source with nothing added or removed. Reproduction is NOT about modifying the sound until it sounds the way you want it to. Now Emotiva (and most other manufacturers) pay at least lip service to the idea that the mythical "straight wire with gain" should be the goal of their products. But NONE of them achieve that goal. And, ironically, sometimes the gear that measures the least difference from the original signal sounds the worst. So yes, we DO agree that sound creation/reproduction have differing goals. The end result to the home listener, unfortunately, is massively colored at every step by factors that the end listener has absolutely no control over. Such is life. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 9, 2017 15:43:15 GMT -5
I'm not sure I quite understand what your "hypothesis" is. Two pure sound waves at the same frequency SOUND THE SAME. A pure sine wave will sound the same, whether it's being produced by a tube amp, or a solid state amp, or a mechanical tuning fork. Different types of amplifiers, and even different models, sound different BECAUSE THEY ARE *NOT* PRODUCING PURE SINE WAVES. If you feed a pure sine wave into two amplifiers, and what comes out sounds different, then one or both of those amplifiers is producing audible distortion. The distortion is one and the same with the audible difference in sound. If you feed music into two different amplifiers, and what comes out is different, then one or both of them is NOT accurately reproducing what went it. Those two amplifiers sound different because they distort differently (and, if neither one distorted, then they WOULD sound the same). You cannot have two amplifiers, both playing the same clean sine wave, that nevertheless sound different.... it is a physical and logical impossibility. Note that there MAY be some very complex interactions going on. For example, two amplifiers may produce identical clean sine waves when playing into a resistive load, yet may sound different when connected to a speaker because their damping factor is different. Or they may both play with no audible distortion when playing simple sine waves, yet produce different results when playing complex waveforms. And, in that case, it may be difficult to define which one is correct, and under which circumstances. However, if that's the case, it only means that the differences can only be observed under certain circumstances, and may be tricky to determine in detail. Assuming that you accept that the goal of a high fidelity sound system is to reproduce the original signal as accurately as possible, then there is one right, and an infinite variety of wrongs. In real life, odds are nothing is 100.00% right, so you're trying to find out which one is the least wrong, in the least audible or objectionable way. Note that "right" can be determined objectively but "the one I like better" is and will always be purely subjective. The point is that a musician CREATES music, so, for him or her, there is no "right". A system designed to REPRODUCE music does in fact have an original which it is its job to reproduce, so there is an objective reference "'right". The exception would be if you were to say up front that your goal with your music system was to PRODUCE something that you like BASED UPON BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE SAME AS the original. Once you say that, then you're talking about a music PRODUCTION system rather than a REPRODUCTION system, and whatever you prefer is right. You are making something new rather than trying to reproduce something that already exists - so whatever you say is right is right. I agree, but think you guys are missing the point. Musicians prefer one type of amp over the other because they sound different! Sound creation, sound reproduction, whatever, they sound different, we agree, which is incompatible with the pure sine wave hypothesis. Trey |
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Post by audiobill on Mar 9, 2017 21:33:32 GMT -5
Where's the popcorn machine, here we go again........
I will posit once again that we aren't measuring everything we can hear, as much as some believe we can predict sound from measurement. "Don't listen, just read, move on"
We pimp what we sell.........and does what you hear make you smile and your toes tap?
Music and science are only casually related.
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Post by USNRet on Mar 9, 2017 21:50:06 GMT -5
Reproduce the music heard by the playing musician (perhaps in their head) or reproduce the lame crappy engineering that was recorded on a medium that will not accurately reproduce either of the aforementioned?
My personal take is to take the room you have to deal with and then put a system together that sounds the way YOU want it to. Drop mic.
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Post by vcautokid on Mar 9, 2017 23:12:52 GMT -5
Schiit Audio also has several inexpensive tube pieces.... Including the Lyr (which sounds quite tubey) and their new Saga. The Yaqin is an inexpensive way to determine whether one likes "tube sound" or not. I do, but not exclusively. For my Tekton Pendragons, tubes sound better. But for my KEF LS50s, the Emotiva PT-100 driving the Crown PSA-2 rules. Don't forget about her big sister Freya.  |
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Post by mack71 on Mar 19, 2017 10:51:07 GMT -5
On my system, adding a preamp McIntosh C2500 gave excellent results  |
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Post by vcautokid on Mar 19, 2017 11:35:11 GMT -5
There is not an alternative. Stick with the real thing. I am being bias of course. Of course there are Hybrids too. When the Transistors run out gas, they switch over to Tubes.....Uh, wait, yeah what he said, but the choices abound. There are tube front ends in some Solid State amps too. So yeah, options.    |
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Post by simpleman68 on Mar 19, 2017 12:00:08 GMT -5
On my system, adding a preamp McIntosh C2500 gave excellent results Diggin' the open baffle Jamos! I stepped out of the norm a few years ago and got some Legacy Whispers and have been very pleased with the results. Scott |
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