Another Tube vs. Solid State thread...

[milsap195]

Mar 10, 2017 7:26:50 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Maybe, maybe not vneal - Some tube preamps (and I specifically refer to the Conrad Johnson ET3 that I had) don't seem to do their best into solid state power amps. I believe that it's an impedance-matching thing. Most solid state power amps have input impedances of 5 to 15 K ohms. But most tubed power amps have input impedances approaching 300 K ohms. Keeping a preamp that is voiced for one power amp impedance sounding the same into a very different power amp input impedance is a trick that most manufacturers can't do.

My experience is that most solid state preamps, when played into high-impedance tube amps, sound flat, dynamically. This isn't always the case, but most often seems to be. When a tube preamp (intended for use with high-input-impedance tube power amps) is played with a solid state power amp (of low input impedance), it sometimes sounds more vivid dynamically. This isn't necessarily a good thing.

The CJ preamp (played into any SS power amp) sounded bass-heavy and bright (or, as my audio amigo garbulky called it - "It's a rock-and-roll preamp!"). How differently might that preamp have sounded if played with a tubed power amp? I don't know.

So SOME tube preamps play well with solid-state amps just as SOME SS preamps play well with tube amps - but the match is NEVER a sure one. You've just got to try & then decide if you like the match.

Boom

PS: One solid state preamp that seems to do pretty well with tube power amps is Emotiva's PT-100. It does lose some dynamics with my tube power amps, but not as much as most other solid-state preamps. Why? I don't know. But that's what I hear.

I have a xsp-1 and a dc1 and both are not a good match for my tube Carvers. Both sound flat and lifeless. The best sound sound I get is source directly to the amps. Both pre's sound good with other ss amps that I have had.

[Boomzilla]

My Oppo BDP-105 played directly into my tube amps sounds very good. I had a (Stereophile Class-A rated) PS Audio preamp that wasn't at its best into tube amps either. I had a McIntosh C220 tube preamp that sounded pretty good into solid-state power amps, but that sounds better into the tube amps.

One combo that works well (despite the impedance mismatch) is the Emotiva PT-100 into the Heathkit tube amps (300K ohm input impedance). Yes, the dynamics suffer a bit, but the frequency response of the Heathkits is smoothed out by the preamp.

But the PT-100 really comes into its own when driving the Crown PSA-2 solid-state amp. Wheeeee!

[tweed]

"I may yet buy a VTA-120 kit - if nothing else it'll keep my soldering skills sharp. Can they be used for day to day amps?"

Surely,that is what they are for!

[bluemeanies]

Scott and general forum members please take no offense.
This topic or topics has been discuss countless times over and over again.
Scott I think your system would be hard missed not to sound FANTASTIC as many of the other forum members. You all have terrific systems.
Scott, I agree with all three of your orginal bullet points. What I think is missing is the point that ALL RECORDINGS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL, therefore no matter what pre amp or amplifier tube or SS that recording will sound no better or no worse than how it was recorded.
I do think that it is cool listening and being able to do comparisons but I don't think the music nirvana will hit you in the face by constantly changing out components. I was on that road less traveled for many years since the mid 70's to be exact when I was becoming interested in LIFELIKE reproduction of music involving all genres.
Perhaps my ears being a bit older are less sensitive to those micro differences that you hear or pick up in a recording.
My speakers do double duty in my dedicated room. Home Theater and 2 Channel. I love my SS processor/amplifier combo. Outlaws 990&7700. They have served me well for over ten years and I have no intention of getting rid of them unless forced by a breakdown that is financially unrealistic to have them repaired. My 7700 was inspected for a cleaning after many years to Falcone's Electronics in Media Pa. and Frank who owns the repair shop said whoever designed the 7700 knew what they were doing. It was one of the best built and designed amplifiers that he has work on and he has had many hi-end amplifiers in his shop.
My experience with tube amplifiers is relatively new but I have listened to many...McIntosh, Rogue, Prima Luna and PS Audio BHK signature 250 to name a few. Financially McIntosh was out of the question and I personally do not think the extra $$ are not worth it compared to less expensive tube amplifiers I listened too. Prima Luna And Rogue were very nice and affordable but both of those tube amplifiers did not overwhelm me with goosebumps. Don't misunderstand they are both good tube amplifiers but for MY taste I did not pull the trigger on either of these amplifiers. PS Audio is in a different class by itself and I felt it out paced the McIntosh with its sonic appeal especially with Jazz and classical at a bit more of price compared to the McIntosh.
I was smitten with Bob Latinos m125 mono blocks that were feeding a pair of 20 year old kit based speakers from Dynaudio.
I was so excited that I found a system that met my standards and just as important one that I would not break the bank.
There were a few pieces of equipment that I was intending to sell simply b/c I was on a different road so I put them up for sale and with a matter of about ten days sold a Fathom 112 sub, Sony multi disc/CD,SACD,DVD player, Monster line conditioner and a pair of pristine B&W804S speakers.
My m125's, Grace Design Moniteoring System, Gratrix switch boxes and two sets of of Nakamichi speaker cables and an HSU sub and B&W 803 diamonds were purchased with little out of pocket funds. My 804's resale value was amazing to me. I was able to sell them with orginal cartons packing and manuals for better than have the price I paid for them. Not bad for owning them for 8-9 years.
I guess what I am trying to say is although the hobby is a journey that never seems to end I think that ultimately you should have satisfaction for what you hear today in your sysrem because tomorrow that NEW system might just lead you down the road of never being content with your listening pleasure.

Blue