Emotiva XSP-1 - First thoughts and impressions

[rvsixer]

I was hunting for a moderately priced affordable digital preamp that had HT bypass, full bass management (including time domain adjustment), and a great final DAC/volume control stage.  Unfortunately there is no "XDSP-1" equivalent to the XSP-1 from Emotiva, the closest device I could find was the HK 990 (I needed a good amp for the mains anyway so this was fine).  But these HK's are rare birds, and expensive when they do go up for sale.

I also thought of just going XMC-1 even if a little out of my budget, but I just could not justify buying another unit whose multichannel audio/video WILL become outdated at some point and those are $$$ wasted been there done that (I mean despite the upgrade boards, at some point a new tech will come along that it just can't support).

So I opted for the next best solution I could think of, the XSP-1.  I could have a nice relatively timeless stereo setup, and upgrade only the HT side of things when needed.  I really did not want to deal with all the analog wiring chaos that goes with it, and the analog bass management via two pots on the back of the unit with no time domain adjustments and inaccurately marked crossover points (learned of this through the thread here),  But I took the plunge on a well priced mint unit here at the lounge, and it arrived safe and sound.

Okay so unit in hand, where to start?  Figure out what the subwoofer pots do of course.  Hooked up my USB soundcard with REW, and off to the races.  I decided on trying 80Hz (-6dB on both low and high pass) as a starting point.  And my oh my are those pot markings not only off, but don't even match each other at all.  The lowpass was at about 10:00 position, and the highpass at 1:30 position WTH.  Oh well the measurements don't lie so on to hooking things up.

First impression, noise floor.  This thing can't be this quiet.  I mean really.  Turn the damn volume knob up all the way, no noise.  Okay I was impressed even with all the analog wiring hell I just went through.

Second impression, sound quality.  Oh yea, sounds good took me by surprise again.  But it was obvious the sub integration was off.  Sounded like it was blooming majorly around the crossover area.

REW to the rescue again, time for in room measurements (mind you my AVR bass management is all dialed in, so the room/speaker/setup is already known good).  Yep lots of blooming in the 80-100Hz range, and major dropouts/spikes that don't exist with my AVR's 24dB lowpass/12dB highpass bass management setup.  So pull out the XPS-1 to get to those DAMN pots, and just start tweaking via RTA.  Got the frequency domain as good as I could, and even without time domain adjustments there is only about a 7ms overall group delay between proper SEALED subs/SEALED mains (BUT I have one huge group time delay right below the crossover I could not tweak out, such are the issues without the flexibility of being in the digital domain).

But it is sounding pretty damn good.  My HTPC outputs two audio streams concurrently, so I was able to subjectively A/B compare XSP-1 (fed via Schiit Modi) to my Yamaha A1020 AVR (fed via HDMI).  I could tell the bass management was better on the AVR, but in all other subjective listening impressions the XSP-1 sounds better.

Happy camper at this point.  Emotiva please think about a XDSP-1 (far less of a cabling mess, with full on proper bass management), we could pair with a MC-700 for a SWEET cost effective stereo/HT setup (and only have to spring for a new HT processor when the standards change, and keep the stereo side of things as is).

XSP-1 highly recommended  .  Skeptic going in, but this could definitely work until I find my XDSP-1 LOL.

[Gary Cook]

Good choice, nice review, glad you like it. You might want to give a very at running the main speakers full range and then trimming in the sub woofer. The added advantage is with the switch to the left (Full Range) the main speakers output will be discrete/balanced. From memory the Crown 1502 accepts balanced inputs so worth a try.


Cheers
Gary

[rvsixer]

Mar 19, 2017 21:36:21 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

Good choice, nice review, glad you like it. You might want to give a very at running the main speakers full range and then trimming in the sub woofer. The added advantage is with the switch to the left (Full Range) the main speakers output will be discrete/balanced. From memory the Crown 1502 accepts balanced inputs so worth a try.

Thanks for your input and thoughts.  Back when I was setting up the AVR I did try running the mains full range, but my left main is in a terrible spot for bass (which in turn led me to the multisub approach, which solved not only the mains bass issue but several other bass issues in my room).  I pretty much have to the run the sub amps full steam for HT use, and unfortunately the XSP-1 lacks a sub level control.  Right now I have the Crown gain dialed down so the XSP-1 stereo setup mains/sub output levels are matched, and for HT use the AVR's digital trims are used to level match everything (therefore no changing of any amp gain controls switching between stereo/HT use).

Can you clarify the balanced output only when set to full range comment?  According to the manual both the balanced & unbalanced outputs are always active, regardless of the full/highpass/lowpass switch position.  Or did I misunderstand?

[garbulky]

In full range the signal is fully balanced (different from just having XLR inputs and outputs).

When the crossover is in use the signal isn't fully balanced though it does output via XLR. However...your crown isn't fully balanced either and your DAC is single ended. So it probably won't make a difference.

As for bass management if you are having trouble, try tweaking it by ear. I'm not entirely sure your measurements are going to reflect your real life listening. (Not saying you shouldn't try both of course).

[KeithL]

Thanks for the generally positive review.

There is one thing that I'd like to point out, though..... trying to measure the performance of an electronic crossover using speakers, in a room, with a microphone, is both ineffective and inaccurate. Speakers, including both their crossovers and the speaker drivers and enclosures themselves, have massive amounts of phase shift, group delay, and other nonlinearities - and these factors are even more significant when you take "in room" measurements. If you plan to measure the performance of an amplifier or electronic crossover, and try to do so using acoustic measurements (using speakers and a microphone in a room), the response characteristics of your acoustic components will completely dominate your measurements, to the point where you will get almost no meaningful information about the parts you're trying to measure. The proper way, and the only accurate way, to measure the response of the electronic circuitry is to do so directly (compare the input to the output directly).

There is various software and hardware that is specifically designed for doing this - and I'm pretty sure you can convince REW to do it. (Please note that the crossover controls on the XPS-1 are not calibrated for frequency, so I'm not claiming that their settings are especially accurate, but, if you want to measure their accuracy, and get valid measurements, then you really need to measure them directly.)

Mar 19, 2017 19:12:01 GMT -5 rvsixer said:

I was hunting for a moderately priced affordable digital preamp that had HT bypass, full bass management (including time domain adjustment), and a great final DAC/volume control stage.  Unfortunately there is no "XDSP-1" equivalent to the XSP-1 from Emotiva, the closest device I could find was the HK 990 (I needed a good amp for the mains anyway so this was fine).  But these HK's are rare birds, and expensive when they do go up for sale.

I also thought of just going XMC-1 even if a little out of my budget, but I just could not justify buying another unit whose multichannel audio/video WILL become outdated at some point and those are $$$ wasted been there done that (I mean despite the upgrade boards, at some point a new tech will come along that it just can't support).

So I opted for the next best solution I could think of, the XSP-1.  I could have a nice relatively timeless stereo setup, and upgrade only the HT side of things when needed.  I really did not want to deal with all the analog wiring chaos that goes with it, and the analog bass management via two pots on the back of the unit with no time domain adjustments and inaccurately marked crossover points (learned of this through the thread here),  But I took the plunge on a well priced mint unit here at the lounge, and it arrived safe and sound.

Okay so unit in hand, where to start?  Figure out what the subwoofer pots do of course.  Hooked up my USB soundcard with REW, and off to the races.  I decided on trying 80Hz (-6dB on both low and high pass) as a starting point.  And my oh my are those pot markings not only off, but don't even match each other at all.  The lowpass was at about 10:00 position, and the highpass at 1:30 position WTH.  Oh well the measurements don't lie so on to hooking things up.

First impression, noise floor.  This thing can't be this quiet.  I mean really.  Turn the damn volume knob up all the way, no noise.  Okay I was impressed even with all the analog wiring hell I just went through.

Second impression, sound quality.  Oh yea, sounds good took me by surprise again.  But it was obvious the sub integration was off.  Sounded like it was blooming majorly around the crossover area.

REW to the rescue again, time for in room measurements (mind you my AVR bass management is all dialed in, so the room/speaker/setup is already known good).  Yep lots of blooming in the 80-100Hz range, and major dropouts/spikes that don't exist with my AVR's 24dB lowpass/12dB highpass bass management setup.  So pull out the XPS-1 to get to those DAMN pots, and just start tweaking via RTA.  Got the frequency domain as good as I could, and even without time domain adjustments there is only about a 7ms overall group delay between proper SEALED subs/SEALED mains (BUT I have one huge group time delay right below the crossover I could not tweak out, such are the issues without the flexibility of being in the digital domain).

But it is sounding pretty damn good.  My HTPC outputs two audio streams concurrently, so I was able to subjectively A/B compare XSP-1 (fed via Schiit Modi) to my Yamaha A1020 AVR (fed via HDMI).  I could tell the bass management was better on the AVR, but in all other subjective listening impressions the XSP-1 sounds better.

Happy camper at this point.  Emotiva please think about a XDSP-1 (far less of a cabling mess, with full on proper bass management), we could pair with a MC-700 for a SWEET cost effective stereo/HT setup (and only have to spring for a new HT processor when the standards change, and keep the stereo side of things as is).

XSP-1 highly recommended  .  Skeptic going in, but this could definitely work until I find my XDSP-1 LOL.

[kauai82]

I also have a XSP-1 and love it. I noticed from your signature that you have DIY Sunflowers by Paul C.  I have his Core 2 speakers and love them. Do you like the Sunflowers and what speaker did you  have before them ? I am interested in doing another DIY speaker project. Matt

[KeithL]

Both the balanced and unbalanced outputs are active for both balanced and unbalanced inputs - and for any options you may select to use.

The distinction is that some of the options on the XSP-1 are internally implemented using circuitry that is not fully balanced; and, if you select them, the signal is converted to unbalanced, and then back again to balanced.
(The fact that some device has balanced inputs and balanced outputs does NOT necessarily mean that the signal may not be converted back and forth at various points on its way through.)
When we refer to a FULLY BALANCED SIGNAL PATH with some settings it means that, with those settings, THE SIGNAL REMAINS BALANCED FROM INPUT TO OUTPUT AND IS NEVER CONVERTED TO UNBALANCED ALONG THE WAY.
(Some audiophiles consider this distinction important.)

Mar 20, 2017 10:18:13 GMT -5 rvsixer said:

Mar 19, 2017 21:36:21 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

Good choice, nice review, glad you like it. You might want to give a very at running the main speakers full range and then trimming in the sub woofer. The added advantage is with the switch to the left (Full Range) the main speakers output will be discrete/balanced. From memory the Crown 1502 accepts balanced inputs so worth a try.

Thanks for your input and thoughts.  Back when I was setting up the AVR I did try running the mains full range, but my left main is in a terrible spot for bass (which in turn led me to the multisub approach, which solved not only the mains bass issue but several other bass issues in my room).  I pretty much have to the run the sub amps full steam for HT use, and unfortunately the XSP-1 lacks a sub level control.  Right now I have the Crown gain dialed down so the XSP-1 stereo setup mains/sub output levels are matched, and for HT use the AVR's digital trims are used to level match everything (therefore no changing of any amp gain controls switching between stereo/HT use).

Can you clarify the balanced output only when set to full range comment?  According to the manual both the balanced & unbalanced outputs are always active, regardless of the full/highpass/lowpass switch position.  Or did I misunderstand?

[rvsixer]

Mar 20, 2017 10:35:31 GMT -5 KeithL said:

Thanks for the generally positive review.

There is one thing that I'd like to point out, though..... trying to measure the performance of an electronic crossover using speakers, in a room, with a microphone, is both ineffective and inaccurate. Speakers, including both their crossovers and the speaker drivers and enclosures themselves, have massive amounts of phase shift, group delay, and other nonlinearities - and these factors are even more significant when you take "in room" measurements. If you plan to measure the performance of an amplifier or electronic crossover, and try to do so using acoustic measurements (using speakers and a microphone in a room), the response characteristics of your acoustic components will completely dominate your measurements, to the point where you will get almost no meaningful information about the parts you're trying to measure. The proper way, and the only accurate way, to measure the response of the electronic circuitry is to do so directly (compare the input to the output directly).

There is various software and hardware that is specifically designed for doing this - and I'm pretty sure you can convince REW to do it. (Please note that the crossover controls on the XPS-1 are not calibrated for frequency, so I'm not claiming that their settings are especially accurate, but, if you want to measure their accuracy, and get valid measurements, then you really need to measure them directly.)

Thanks for your note, I understand and agree.

But nowhere did I try to directly measure the electrical performance of the XPS-1 crossover using acoustics via speakers in a room:
1) Before introducing the XPS-1  into a room/speaker/bass management setup with known good in-room response (i.e. fairly flat, minimal excess group delay, good impulse response, sounds good), as noted above  I did measure and set the XPS-1 crossover directly (direct signal from REW sound card into XPS-1, direct signal out of XPS-1 into REW sound card, setting the crossover to 80Hz -6dB low and high pass).  It was just a place to start before inserting the XPS-1 into the setup (my AVR is set to 80Hz 24dB lowpass 12dB highpass so I thought this was the closest place I could start).
2) As noted this crossover setting did not sound right, and in-room measurements pointed out why (as compared to in-room measurements of the AVR doing the bass management)
3) Next prudent step was to start tweaking the XSP-1 crossover settings in hopes of getting to the same in-room response/integration level of the AVR setup.  At this point, of course, I absolutely don't care what the XSP-1 crossovers are physically set to or direct measure at.  Only trying to achieve the same great in room response before putting the stereo preamp into the mix.

[rvsixer]

Mar 20, 2017 10:41:19 GMT -5 kauai82 said:

I also have a XSP-1 and love it. I noticed from your signature that you have DIY Sunflowers by Paul C.  I have his Core 2 speakers and love them. Do you like the Sunflowers and what speaker did you  have before them ? I am interested in doing another DIY speaker project. Matt

I really enjoy the Sunflowers.  Before building them I have several other DIY builds under my belt (including some self-designed active OB's, so I am plenty familiar with all the things Keith L. pointed out about speakers and rooms LOL).  I think my next project is going to be some Pi Speakers (3pi model).  I used to have a Altec Voice of the Theatre setup, and want to see how todays horn technology compares.