DYohn
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Post by DYohn on May 6, 2017 11:38:19 GMT -5
So, put all the functionality I have into 1 box with at most 1 wire in (or wireless in) and 1 wire out to my DAC...and with an interface as easy as Sonos and controllable via an app on my tablet/phone...that would be special. For me. Mark If you are talking about one box as in your music library resides on the same box as your player and is not on a separate server, then your HTPC is likely the best readily-available solution but you just may not be using the right software. I'd suggest an SSD running a Linux-based OS and Roon Core. You can control this using any manner of phone tablet or PC and the Roon Control interface. If you are talking about Sonos-like functionality in a device controlling your library that is housed in a server elsewhere in your network (or on an NAS) then there are literally hundreds of options including some made by Sonos and all with various control interfaces (including Roon, which is my current favorite although it is not inexpensive.) This would be the R Pi-based home brew solution, or if you want something with better reliability, ergonomics, appearance and warranty look at Aurender, Salk's Streamplayer, SoTM products, etc. There are solutions ranging in price from $100 to $10000. Emotiva jumping into this market would require something very "special" indeed to differentiate themselves from the pack. |
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Post by petew on May 6, 2017 11:49:09 GMT -5
Everyone has very unique and specific needs and wants. I'd like to see Emotiva offer a line of "hacker chassis". The 1U box would have a power supply suitable to drive any of the SBC's. It would have a front panel power button and USB port with header. The back would have an array of "knockouts" that will accept whatever jacks the user wants - RCA, XLR, network, etc. The rear knockouts would have blank plates installed that the hacker would have to machine for their chosen connectors. The base of the box would get a tray that the hacker could modify to mount their chosen cards - could be Pi, DSP cards, whatever. Spare back plates and board trays would be available at nominal cost. The 3U box would be built to standard PC chassis dimensions. Front panel gets a power switch, reset button, cutout for a slot load optical drive, USB header or two, and that's about it. What goes inside is up to the user. Someone in the internet machining business could modify the front panels and re anodize per users needs, and do custom machining on the back plates and trays for hackers that weren't equipped for that. Here's a line of expensive HTPC cases. Emotiva could do better! atechfabrication.com/products/Heatsink_3500.htm |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 6, 2017 12:34:25 GMT -5
If you are talking about one box as in your music library resides on the same box as your player and is not on a separate server, then your HTPC is likely the best readily-available solution but you just may not be using the right software. I'd suggest an SSD running a Linux-based OS and Roon Core. You can control this using any manner of phone tablet or PC and the Roon Control interface. I am indeed talking 1 box for my whole library...and I have looked at Roon. Nice, but crazy pricey. Short of that, I am left with my PC and the display woes I have documented elsewhere on the Lounge. If you are talking about Sonos-like functionality in a device controlling your library that is housed in a server elsewhere in your network (or on an NAS)... "Sonos-like" is key. And by that, I mean the way Sonos lists all the source options and allows choice from them in a single user-friendly interface. For me, it does not need the multi-room integration Sonos offers as my needs for other rooms can be met via Sonos at this point. Controllable via an easy and reliable interface available via my phone tablet is a must. Emotiva jumping into this market would require something very "special" indeed to differentiate themselves from the pack. Yep. Exactly my point. If it doesn't do what I lay out, I likely won't be interested. Others may. But me? No. Mark |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on May 6, 2017 16:02:14 GMT -5
If you are talking about Sonos-like functionality in a device controlling your library that is housed in a server elsewhere in your network (or on an NAS)... "Sonos-like" is key. And by that, I mean the way Sonos lists all the source options and allows choice from them in a single user-friendly interface. For me, it does not need the multi-room integration Sonos offers as my needs for other rooms can be met via Sonos at this point. Controllable via an easy and reliable interface available via my phone tablet is a must. Roon has the best tablet or PC user interface for music I have seen, and it is media format independent. I bit the bullet and purchased a lifetime license, installed on my server, and all my music library and network troubles caused by the Logitech Media Server and iTunes environments I was using disappeared. FLAC, WAV, ALAC, MP3, high-res, it no longer mattered I got them all, and I have had absolutely zero issues. I've become a Roon fanboy. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 6, 2017 16:31:49 GMT -5
"Sonos-like" is key. And by that, I mean the way Sonos lists all the source options and allows choice from them in a single user-friendly interface. For me, it does not need the multi-room integration Sonos offers as my needs for other rooms can be met via Sonos at this point. Controllable via an easy and reliable interface available via my phone tablet is a must. Roon has the best tablet or PC user interface for music I have seen, and it is media format independent. I bit the bullet and purchased a lifetime license, installed on my server, and all my music library and network troubles caused by the Logitech Media Server and iTunes environments I was using disappeared. FLAC, WAV, ALAC, MP3, high-res, it no longer mattered I got them all, and I have had absolutely zero issues. I've become a Roon fanboy. Roon is tempting, but the price of a lifetime license is pretty high for something I can't hold in my hand. I have a fear that if I paid for it, suddenly Roon would go out of business and it would stop working and there would be nobody to call to solve the issue. Irrational? Maybe. For $100 lifetime, I would do it. $500? Not right now. Mark |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 6, 2017 16:42:23 GMT -5
I also just looked more into Roon, and it seems all is not rosy with Tidal and MQA at Roon. That would be a key driver for me to consider Roon. Strikeout...Without that, not worth it vs. what I have.
Mark
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on May 7, 2017 8:37:15 GMT -5
There you go then.  MQA is a flash in the pan that will not be around much longer, but if it's important to you then it's important to you. I don't know what you are talking about re: Tidal integration as that's seamless, but I also am not here to defend Roon. I can only say it works better for me than any other solution I've tried, including Sonos. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 8, 2017 6:17:32 GMT -5
There you go then. MQA is a flash in the pan that will not be around much longer, but if it's important to you then it's important to you. I don't know what you are talking about re: Tidal integration as that's seamless, but I also am not here to defend Roon. I can only say it works better for me than any other solution I've tried, including Sonos. If MQA is a flash in the pan, then all the more reason to not spend a lot of $ to make it more integrated on my system. The issue I read about with Room and Tidal is that if Tidal has a regular version and an MQA version available, both show up with no ability to tell which is which. With my PC, a little icon shows on the MQA one so I know which to select. You can, on Roon, ensure you get the mqa one by searching only in the Masters library, but then you have to scroll through to find what you want (vs. leverage the search power). Posts about that were as recent as this week. If Room were free or $100 lifetime...maybe. Mark |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on May 8, 2017 10:11:53 GMT -5
Ah, now I follow. Thanks.
re: Roon's cost. You are correct it is darn expensive, especially when compared to free solutions like Logitech Media Server. But after being a LMS user since it was started by Slim Devices (I owned a first generation Squeezebox and every model made through Touch) the difference I experienced in ease of use, no-fuss integration of media, and improved sound quality was startling. To me it was the best audio investment I've made since I bought my 2 Schiit Yggdrasil DACs. Roon has made music listening more enjoyable and easy in ways I had not anticipated. YMMV.
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Post by Casey Leedom on May 8, 2017 10:15:20 GMT -5
Not taking any side in the MQA Wars, and not really wanting to derail the Raspberry Pi Streamer thread, but the Roon issue you report sounds like a nice little Bug Report that you can submit to Roon.
But back to the Raspberry Pi (or any platform for that matter) Music Streaming Device. Here's what I'd like to see from whomever were to produce such a device — Emotiva or one of you guys if you decide to make a go of it:
1. Since it's Digital Data, I don't want fancy "audiophile quality" anything. I just
want it well engineered, not emitting a ton of EMI, etc.
2. I'd prefer an internal shielded Power Supply with an IEC Power Connector.
3. Gigabit Ethernet in. If one insists on Wireless Networking, just go cheap
and reasonably fast; don't do the fanciest, highest bandwidth, blah, blah,
blah.
4. All the standard Digital Audio Outputs: Optical and Coaxial S/PIDIF,
USB 3.0.
5. No Display.
6. Just run all the popular clients. Don't try to pick a "winner".
Squeeze Client, Roon End Point, DLNA Client, etc.
7. Halfway reasonable cost. I'll throw down $300 for a nice implementation
of the above.
Casey
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on May 8, 2017 10:18:06 GMT -5
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Post by Casey Leedom on May 8, 2017 10:35:17 GMT -5
Wow. Pretty close ...
Casey
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Post by gld3gld3 on May 8, 2017 10:59:11 GMT -5
There you go then. MQA is a flash in the pan that will not be around much longer, but if it's important to you then it's important to you. I don't know what you are talking about re: Tidal integration as that's seamless, but I also am not here to defend Roon. I can only say it works better for me than any other solution I've tried, including Sonos. If MQA is a flash in the pan, then all the more reason to not spend a lot of $ to make it more integrated on my system. The issue I read about with Room and Tidal is that if Tidal has a regular version and an MQA version available, both show up with no ability to tell which is which. With my PC, a little icon shows on the MQA one so I know which to select. You can, on Roon, ensure you get the mqa one by searching only in the Masters library, but then you have to scroll through to find what you want (vs. leverage the search power). Posts about that were as recent as this week. If Room were free or $100 lifetime...maybe. Mark This is indeed an issue currently with the Tidal and MQA using Roon, one that I hope will be fixed soon. Roon does update pretty frequently, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is already in the works to be fixed. They just had a major software update, so I'm sure they are busy working through all of those bugs with that major release. But this MQA issue has been brought up and I am sure it's on their radar. Heck, Tidal's very own app had this problem until very recently, so I'm not surprised that Roon hasn't gotten to it yet. There are workarounds in Roon if you want to separate MQA from non-MQA versions using tags. I haven't done that yet because I don't want to put the time in on something that could be fixed by Roon/Tidal in one fell swoop. |
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Post by qdtjni on May 8, 2017 11:08:25 GMT -5
Ah, now I follow. Thanks. re: Roon's cost. You are correct it is darn expensive, especially when compared to free solutions like Logitech Media Server. But after being a LMS user since it was started by Slim Devices (I owned a first generation Squeezebox and every model made through Touch) the difference I experienced in ease of use, no-fuss integration of media, and improved sound quality was startling. To me it was the best audio investment I've made since I bought my 2 Schiit Yggdrasil DACs. Roon has made music listening more enjoyable and easy in ways I had not anticipated. YMMV. +1 |
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Post by Casey Leedom on May 8, 2017 12:01:39 GMT -5
Yeah, I have a close friend who adores Roon and is trying to convince me to go with it. His big thing is the "deep meta-data" that Roon offers up. Tidal is nice as well, but only his second reason for going with Roon. The User Interface is his third tier reason.
But all of the above is why I said I want an Ethernet -> S/PDIF & USB Bridge solution which is Media Client Agnostic. Don't pick winners. Just provide a mechanism for getting streaming music data off Ethernet and into one of the formats accepted by audio equipment.
For instance, one very real possibility may end up being my new Oppo UDP-203. It has an unadvertised Squeeze Media Client in it. I'm pretty sure it also has a DLNA client. They could just go ahead and add a few other streaming media clients like Roon to the mix. Seems a bit crazy for me to turn on my Bluray player to get music streaming, but whatever ... It's one less box that I have to keep provisioned with power, etc. in the "rack".
Casey
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Post by wilburthegoose on May 8, 2017 12:18:43 GMT -5
Other than my Emotiva XMC-1, my lifetime sub to Roon is the best $$$ I've ever spent in this area.
Right now, I'm in my home office listening to my music:
- Roon android app running on a cheapie 7" Samsung tablet. All the tablet does is control what songs I play and metadata for currently playing
- My old Denon AVR-4311 with Emotiva monitor speakers.
- A Raspberry Pi - ethernet in and digital (cable) out to the Denon. This has a HiFi Berry Digi+ card. Cost was under $100.
Sum it up and you have bliss.
In my home theater, I'm running a USB from my PC to my XMC-1. Controlled thru an iPad/iPhone/PC.
Even better bliss.
The Raspberry PI is a key factor in great audio quality in my home office. Air Play just doesn't cut it.
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Post by millst on May 9, 2017 2:35:44 GMT -5
3. Gigabit Ethernet in. If one insists on Wireless Networking, just go cheap and reasonably fast; don't do the fanciest, highest bandwidth, blah, blah, blah. 4. All the standard Digital Audio Outputs: Optical and Coaxial S/PIDIF, USB 3.0. 3. GBE doesn't make a ton of sense on the current Pis. The existing 100Mb Ethernet is chained off the USB bus, which is USB 2.0 and has a total max of 480Mb (theoretical, not real world). Even if you get a speed increase over 100Mb, it's nowhere near 1Gb and at the expense of everything else on the bus e.g. disk performance. 4. See previous, currently only USB 2.0. -tm |
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Post by Casey Leedom on May 9, 2017 10:00:15 GMT -5
That's why I want USB 3.0. But that's pushing this beyond the Raspberry Pi as it's configured now, so this is probably a Thread Hijack. Sorry!
Casey
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on May 9, 2017 10:04:19 GMT -5
That's why I want USB 3.0. But that's pushing this beyond the Raspberry Pi as it's configured now, so this is probably a Thread Hijack. Sorry! Casey Does USB 3.0 exist on any audio devices yet? |
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Post by millst on May 9, 2017 10:52:14 GMT -5
There's not much need for audio only: 8 uncompressed channels of 192/32 takes less than 50Mbps.
-tm
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MQA is a flash in the pan that will not be around much longer, but if it's important to you then it's important to you. I don't know what you are talking about re: Tidal integration as that's seamless, but I also am not here to defend Roon. I can only say it works better for me than any other solution I've tried, including Sonos. 
