Speaker Crossover Feature

[joswald21]

The Onkyo TX-8270 and Outlaw Audio 2160 receivers include a Speaker Crossover feature(i.e., Bass Management) - e.g., low frequencies can be excluded from the signal to the main speakers. The feature makes sense on-the-surface, but what are the real-life benefits in a 2.1 system?

[lehighvalleyjeff]

Real benefits in a 2.1 channel system are significant and tangible. First off by taking the sub frequencies out of the mix for your main speakers the mids and highs will be significantly cleaner bc the amp powering them doesn't have to struggle with also amplifying the difficult low frequencies.

Further the power requirements to drive the frequencies in the low (sub) bass are different from the power needed to drive the mids and highs. 2.1 allows you to power your sub bass with one amp and the mids n highs with another amp.

Depending upon your sub you can also adjust phase, gain and crossover points too.

[leonos]

This is good news!  I think we might see more 2 channel receiver sales if more manufacturers offered more options with bass management.

[405x5]

May 28, 2017 11:08:16 GMT -5 joswald21 said:

The Onkyo TX-8270 and Outlaw Audio 2160 receivers include a Speaker Crossover feature(i.e., Bass Management) - e.g., low frequencies can be excluded from the signal to the main speakers. The feature makes sense on-the-surface, but what are the real-life benefits in a 2.1 system?

Those receivers are designed for users who want to do everything the average AV user does, but using only 2 mains and one (or 2) subwoofers. 

When watching movies with lots of low frequency effects, you still need an LFE channel run to a sub. So the mains don't take a hit from all the action.

If the main speakers don't reach low enough to supply really deep bass and stuff like organ pedal tones, then this receiver coupled with the right subwoofer can really bring a moderately priced pair of "full range" speakers into the big leagues. That's the greatest benefit of all in this particular case.


Bill

[MusicHead]

The low open E string on a bass is around 41Hz.

The lowest C in a 88-key piano is ~32Hz.

The tuba can reach ~16Hz and an organ could in theory go down to 8Hz.

On the other hand, I think it is fair to say that only large bookshelf speakers can reach down to 40Hz (and most likely at -3dB) and it takes a well engineered tower to go down to 30Hz.

I'd say there is certainly a good case for a sub when listening to music.

Not to mention that physically separating the Mid and High frequencies transducers from those for the Low ones will make easier to position them, optimizing bass quality while preserving imaging and soundstaging.

IMHO a well integrated main speakers + sub system will run circles around a couple of towers, even with music. The key being "well integrated", otherwise even with movie sound quality will suffer.

Now, this should stir some good debate... :-)

[joswald21]

In light of the realities mentioned and getting back to the original question, is a Crossover Feature in a receiver/pre-amp essential, nice-to-have, or irrelevant for acheiving a "well integrated" 2.1 system? For example the BasX PT-100 does NOT have the feature. Is that a showstopper?

May 28, 2017 21:08:16 GMT -5 MusicHead said:

The low open E string on a bass is around 41Hz.

The lowest C in a 88-key piano is ~32Hz.

The tuba can reach ~16Hz and an organ could in theory go down to 8Hz.

On the other hand, I think it is fair to say that only large bookshelf speakers can reach down to 40Hz (and most likely at -3dB) and it takes a well engineered tower to go down to 30Hz.

I'd say there is certainly a good case for a sub when listening to music.

Not to mention that physically separating the Mid and High frequencies transducers from those for the Low ones will make easier to position them, optimizing bass quality while preserving imaging and soundstaging.

IMHO a well integrated main speakers + sub system will run circles around a couple of towers, even with music. The key being "well integrated", otherwise even with movie sound quality will suffer.

Now, this should stir some good debate... :-)

[DYohn]

May 29, 2017 14:08:55 GMT -5 joswald21 said:

In light of the realities mentioned and getting back to the original question, is a Crossover Feature in a receiver/pre-amp essential, nice-to-have, or irrelevant for acheiving a "well integrated" 2.1 system? For example the BasX PT-100 does NOT have the feature. Is that a showstopper?

It's nice to have at best, and irrelevant if you know how to setup a subwoofer in a 2.1 system. Just make sure the subwoofer amp has a low pass filter, a phase control and good level adjustment.

[leonski]

I can only think of ONE Organ piece scored with a 16hz note. Saint Sans Symphony #3 'With Organ'. Others?

Tuba @ 16hz? That's one HECK of a huge Tuba. Must take 3 people to tote that around.    Not to mention somebody with lungs of huge size.

Bosendorfer Imperial Grand, has an extra octave in the BASS and goes well into the 20s. It is 1200lb + and HUGE in all other dimensions.


The one benefit of a proper sub is that it helps stereo imaging and width. The stage collapses should i turn my sub off.

Crossing over low enough ensures you will be hard put to 'localize' it by ear.


Now that I've got it, I won't be without a good 2.1 'system'.      Even my panels which should drop into the 30s benefit.    

The future is here and bass management should be a part of systems above the 'basic' level.