DAC/Tablet

[gus4emo]

Hi all, just curious, how much better would a DAC improve the sound connected through the analog output from a tablet?

[beardedalbatross]

You can't connect a DAC to the analog output since the tablet already made the digital to analog conversion. If your tablet supports USB audio then you can try the $20 signtek DAC on Amazon.

[Boomzilla]

Excuse me, beardedalbatross, but I think that there is an exception - If using an iPad, I believe that there's an optical TOSLINK output in the same socket as the headphones plug into. If you buy an adapter cable, you can plug digital TOSLINK output from the iPad into any outboard USB DAC. But I might be mistaken...

If you can't get digital from the optical connector, then here's two other ways:

Another thing to keep in mind is that you can easily, through 2 different methods, output a standard digital s/pdif signal from an Ipad.

This means you can pipe the raw digital sound data straight to an outboard D/A converter of your choice, or a digital input of your receiver if it has one, and at that point the Ipad's D/A converter and sound circuitry is not factored into the equation at all.

Method 1 (wireless)
1-Purchase an Apple Airport Express ($100) and connect it to your home's existing wi-fi network

2-Use the "airplay" function on the Ipad to wirelessly pipe the Ipad's audio signal from the Ipad to the airport express. This function is system-wide so it will work with any audio app you are using on the Ipad

3-Connect an optical Toslink cable, from the optical output of your Airport Express, to an optical input of your D/A converter.

This method is handy because it's wireless. I have an Airport Express hooked up to the input of my Onko Home Theater Receiever, and can sit and read on my Ipad, while at the same time piping audio from Pandora or a Google Play Music App, wirelessly to the stereo.

Another bonus is that on any mac laptop running system 10.8 on up, it can also pipe the audio from the laptop to the same airport express. So a mac laptop can also be a wireless sound source as well, not just the Ipad. Iphones too. On the Windows side, the Windows version of Itunes can play audio out to the airport express.

Method 2 (Wired)
1-Purchase a $30 "Ipad Camera Connection Kit", which connects to the Ipad's connector, and gives it a standard full sized female USB port. For newer Ipad's and Ipad minis there is a newer version of this accessory that connects to the lightning connector.

2-Purchase a "USB Audio Class" class compliant USB audio interface with a s/pdif output. This is basically a driverless computer audio interface that connects to the USB port of the above accessory, and offers a s/pdif output. One mainstream $30 option is the Behringer UCA202

3-Connect the s/pdif output of your audio interface to the s/pdif input of your D/A converter or Receiver. The Ipad will automatically output it's stereo signal out of the s/pdif connector of the attached interface

Of the two connections, I like the wireless option better (even though it costs a bit more) because:

-It's wireless, which is always a more flexible solution. You can actually sit and use the Ipad for other functions, from another spot in the room, while it is sending audio to your converter.

-This solution does not tie up the Ipad's connector, which means the connector is free to eventually recharge the Ipad. With the wired solution, once its time to charge it the music would have to stop.

-The Airport Express can be useful for other things since it is also a general purpose travel sized wireless router

-With the "airplay" function, other devices like mac laptops and iphones, and the Windows version of Itunes can all send audio to the airport express connected to your stereo.

All of the above functions have been tested, by assorted folks out there, to be bit accurate.

Thanks!

[beardedalbatross]

I'm not aware of the iPad having a combo socket.

I actually think the best way to do something like this is to buy a Chromecast audio. It's cheap and you can either use the 3.5mm out(which I find to be fine) or connect a mini toslink to toslink cable. From there you can add a Fiio D03k if a DAC is insisted upon.

Edit: BTW if you wanted to know how much of a benefit an external DAC would be over a tablet well that would depend on your tablet. Hook up a good pair of headphones and listen. Is there a high noise floor, is there hissing or buzzing? If not then the answer is not much benefit. IMO of course.

[gus4emo]

Only analog outputs on my tablet, how about an analog to digital converter, then connect it to the DAC?

[garbulky]

I thought the camera connection kit for the ipad would enable it to trasmit USB digital audio to a DAC?
blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838

Oh and the whole analog digital converter to a DAC thing is useless. The DAC can't improve the sound after it's been converted to analog by the ipad

[beardedalbatross]

Jun 11, 2017 14:19:28 GMT -5 gus4emo said:

Only analog outputs on my tablet, how about an analog to digital converter, then connect it to the DAC?

That would just degrade the signal further and you would have something inferior to your original signal. How audibly inferior it would be is up in the air. I'm assuming you have a DAC with multiple digital and no analog inputs so you can't use your tablet? Try out the Chromecast audio and mini toslink to toslink method I mentioned.

[Boomzilla]

Rule of thumb: Once the signal is analog, NEVER convert it back to digital. Every back and forth DOES degrade the signal.

[gus4emo]

Jun 11, 2017 14:08:55 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Excuse me, beardedalbatross, but I think that there is an exception - If using an iPad, I believe that there's an optical TOSLINK output in the same socket as the headphones plug into. If you buy an adapter cable, you can plug digital TOSLINK output from the iPad into any outboard USB DAC. But I might be mistaken...

If you can't get digital from the optical connector, then here's two other ways:

Another thing to keep in mind is that you can easily, through 2 different methods, output a standard digital s/pdif signal from an Ipad.

This means you can pipe the raw digital sound data straight to an outboard D/A converter of your choice, or a digital input of your receiver if it has one, and at that point the Ipad's D/A converter and sound circuitry is not factored into the equation at all.

Method 1 (wireless)
1-Purchase an Apple Airport Express ($100) and connect it to your home's existing wi-fi network

2-Use the "airplay" function on the Ipad to wirelessly pipe the Ipad's audio signal from the Ipad to the airport express. This function is system-wide so it will work with any audio app you are using on the Ipad

3-Connect an optical Toslink cable, from the optical output of your Airport Express, to an optical input of your D/A converter.

This method is handy because it's wireless. I have an Airport Express hooked up to the input of my Onko Home Theater Receiever, and can sit and read on my Ipad, while at the same time piping audio from Pandora or a Google Play Music App, wirelessly to the stereo.

Another bonus is that on any mac laptop running system 10.8 on up, it can also pipe the audio from the laptop to the same airport express. So a mac laptop can also be a wireless sound source as well, not just the Ipad. Iphones too. On the Windows side, the Windows version of Itunes can play audio out to the airport express.

Method 2 (Wired)
1-Purchase a $30 "Ipad Camera Connection Kit", which connects to the Ipad's connector, and gives it a standard full sized female USB port. For newer Ipad's and Ipad minis there is a newer version of this accessory that connects to the lightning connector.

2-Purchase a "USB Audio Class" class compliant USB audio interface with a s/pdif output. This is basically a driverless computer audio interface that connects to the USB port of the above accessory, and offers a s/pdif output. One mainstream $30 option is the Behringer UCA202

3-Connect the s/pdif output of your audio interface to the s/pdif input of your D/A converter or Receiver. The Ipad will automatically output it's stereo signal out of the s/pdif connector of the attached interface

Of the two connections, I like the wireless option better (even though it costs a bit more) because:

-It's wireless, which is always a more flexible solution. You can actually sit and use the Ipad for other functions, from another spot in the room, while it is sending audio to your converter.

-This solution does not tie up the Ipad's connector, which means the connector is free to eventually recharge the Ipad. With the wired solution, once its time to charge it the music would have to stop.

-The Airport Express can be useful for other things since it is also a general purpose travel sized wireless router

-With the "airplay" function, other devices like mac laptops and iphones, and the Windows version of Itunes can all send audio to the airport express connected to your stereo.

All of the above functions have been tested, by assorted folks out there, to be bit accurate.

Thanks!

It's a Samsung tablet, not ipad.....

[gus4emo]

I occasionally use the tablet to listen to YT Music, connected to the receiver, sounds OK but the volume on the receiver has to be pushed to around 3pm to sound acceptable....

[novisnick]

This is a headphone out to optical cable connection.

[frisco]

Boom, my understanding is that the 3.5mm headphone  output in the iPads and I phones is analogue only, but both the iMacs and the airport express have the dual use output port. So you have to use a USB adapter with the ipad. I've been able to use both the dragonfly and schiit mimby as dacs with out an external USB power supply using the stream from the iPad.

[garbulky]

Jun 11, 2017 18:29:27 GMT -5 frisco said:

Boom, my understanding is that the 3.5mm headphone  output in the iPads and I phones is analogue only, but both the iMacs and the airport express have the dual use output port. So you have to use a USB adapter with the ipad. I've been able to use both the dragonfly and schiit mimby as dacs with out an external USB power supply using the stream from the iPad.

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00882U782/ref=s9_dcacsd_dcoop_bw_c_x_3_w
this one^^
$99

[Gary Cook]

Both iPads and iPhones have digital output, via the lightning connector (or 32 pin if it's an old model) and I use a lightning to USB cable (the original Apple charging cable works guys fine). The one problem is there isn't enough power output (as in amps) from the lightning connector to power a USB DAC (like an Ego for example). So you either need a DAC with its own power supply or you can plug the iDevice into a powered USB hub and connect that to the DAC which them supplies power to the DAC.

iDevice -------> USB Hub -------> Ego --------> Airmotive 4's


To answer the original question, yes the sound improvement from using an external DAC is very noticeable.

Cheers
Gary

[gus4emo]

Jun 11, 2017 18:29:27 GMT -5 frisco said:

Boom, my understanding is that the 3.5mm headphone  output in the iPads and I phones is analogue only, but both the iMacs and the airport express have the dual use output port. So you have to use a USB adapter with the ipad. I've been able to use both the dragonfly and schiit mimby as dacs with out an external USB power supply using the stream from the iPad.

I don't have an ipad

[garbulky]

Jun 11, 2017 20:58:03 GMT -5 gus4emo said:

Jun 11, 2017 18:29:27 GMT -5 frisco said:

Boom, my understanding is that the 3.5mm headphone  output in the iPads and I phones is analogue only, but both the iMacs and the airport express have the dual use output port. So you have to use a USB adapter with the ipad. I've been able to use both the dragonfly and schiit mimby as dacs with out an external USB power supply using the stream from the iPad.

I don't have an ipad

The product I linked IS a dac - the audioquest dragonfly red. It's $99. It works on an android tablet or anything android OR iphone. You do not use your headphone out. The info goes direct to the dac through your charger cable in digital format. That's it. The DAC will play it back in high quality analog. It also is a headphone amp!


Here it is: $99
www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonFly-Black-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B01DP5JHHI

Your current plan of going through your headphone port is more complicated and lower quality because the signal is converted to analog by your ipad instead of your DAC.

[vcautokid]

Gus easy peasy my man. The Android family of products follows this simple protocol called OTG. That means "On The Go", protocol. Basically you need the OTG cable and some software to manage your host Android device to your peripheral device, in this case, your USB device of your choosing. This case a DAC. And you are golden.

To learn more please see. blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838

Also please see Garbulky'so post with the YouTube video for more too.

If you want the long hair stuff see Android.com, and read all the ins and outs of how an Android device manages USB devices coming and going. It is geeky stuff though. Just do a search on what you want to know like how to connect a DAC to an Android mobile device.

[bootman]

A quick write up on the Drangonfly products.

www.whathifi.com/news/audioquests-new-dragonfly-usb-dacs-work-phones-and-tablets

You will also need this to hook up the DAC to your android tablet.

www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonTail-Adaptor-Android-Devices/dp/B01DP60SRK/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1497262727&sr=1-1&keywords=dragontail+usb+adapter

[gus4emo]

Jun 12, 2017 4:41:02 GMT -5 vcautokid said:

Gus easy peasy my man. The Android family of products follows this simple protocol called OTG. That means "On The Go", protocol. Basically you need the OTG cable and some software to manage your host Android device to your peripheral device, in this case, your USB device of your choosing. This case a DAC. And you are golden.

To learn more please see. blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838

Also please see Garbulky'so post with the YouTube video for more too.

If you want the long hair stuff see Android.com, and read all the ins and outs of how an Android device manages USB devices coming and going. It is geeky stuff though. Just do a search on what you want to know like how to connect a DAC to an Android mobile device.

Thanks@

[gus4emo]

Jun 12, 2017 5:18:10 GMT -5 bootman said:

A quick write up on the Drangonfly products.

www.whathifi.com/news/audioquests-new-dragonfly-usb-dacs-work-phones-and-tablets

You will also need this to hook up the DAC to your android tablet.

www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonTail-Adaptor-Android-Devices/dp/B01DP60SRK/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1497262727&sr=1-1&keywords=dragontail+usb+adapter

Thanks, how about a DACMAGIC?