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Post by vcautokid on Jun 24, 2017 16:15:13 GMT -5
If you leave the peels on, the Bananas last longer, but really, yeah Bananas can lose there springy-ness if they are inserted and pulled out allot, but I mean really allot. Most that I have used including Paladins and singles seem to fare very well. Some are made better than others no doubt. A nice snug fit is always the desired state when going Bananas. Er... we are talking audio here, right?   Maybe |
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Post by annjones13 on Jun 24, 2017 16:32:19 GMT -5
Actually there are many uses for banana... They are good w/peanut butter in a sandwich.. Great in a cream pie... In your breakfast cereal... Bait when trapping monkeys...As a lubricant on a sidewalk...But if you are plugging a hole (think hole in a dike) it is best to use a very green banana
Ann
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 24, 2017 17:02:57 GMT -5
And a quick question for the audio-literati - About to move the equipment rack over about five feet or more. So I'll need new speaker wires.
Better to go 8-gauge with bananas or to go 12-gauge with bare wires?
The resistance decrease that I'd gain from going with the heavier-gauge wire will (likely) be offset by the solder interface to the bananas. So (maybe?) the 12-gauge will have the lower resistance?
Wire lengths will be five feet and 15 feet.
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Post by RichGuy on Jun 24, 2017 17:13:20 GMT -5
8 gauge is completely overkill unless you are running extremely long lengths 12 gauge should be fine. Most bananas allow for screwing or non soldering methods to install and this is considered better for sound quality than soldering them on.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 24, 2017 17:18:12 GMT -5
What, are you running megawatt amplifiers? 8-AWG? That's good for 50 amps, or approximately 10000 watts into 4-ohms. Unless you just like the look of fat wires, there is no electrical need to exceed 16 AWG in most audio setups.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 24, 2017 17:19:00 GMT -5
8 gauge is completely overkill unless you are running extremely long lengths 12 gauge should be fine. Most bananas allow for screwing or non soldering methods to install and this is considered better for sound quality than soldering them on. I agreed with you until that last... Unless the connection is soldered (or better yet, welded), the ambient air (with its moisture and dust) increase the likelihood of oxide forming on the wire and the connector. Further, if there are dissimilar metals in the wire and the connector, galvanic corrosion is an eventual certainty. Soldering/welding doesn't absolutely prevent galvanic corrosion, but it does delay it significantly. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 24, 2017 17:20:48 GMT -5
Solder is not good for audio even if using pure silver. Friction is best (as is wire-to-wire.)
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Post by monkumonku on Jun 24, 2017 18:00:42 GMT -5
Solder is not good for audio even if using pure silver. Friction is best (as is wire-to-wire.) Out of curiosity, why is that? So then, it is better to connect the speaker wire to the banana plug with the set screws that come with the plug, rather than soldering the plugs to the wire? |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 24, 2017 18:07:26 GMT -5
Solder is not good for audio even if using pure silver. Friction is best (as is wire-to-wire.) Out of curiosity, why is that? So then, it is better to connect the speaker wire to the banana plug with the set screws that come with the plug, rather than soldering the plugs to the wire? In general yes. It's because solder can introduce solvents and other chemicals that will can cause corrosion over time, especially commercial solders that contain flux. But the more viable reason is compressing a stranded wire together such as in a crimp or screw-down connection forms a homogeneous cross-section and ensures the best signal transfer. Soldering is fine when done properly, but crimp is generally better. Plus also most people can't do it properly so there's that. -edit- and, of course, this is my opinion. Others will disagree. But I will say that I first learned the quality of a proper crimp when I was an electrician in the Nuclear Navy. US Navy Nuclear Submarines use crimped connections for wire. |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jun 24, 2017 19:20:29 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, why is that? So then, it is better to connect the speaker wire to the banana plug with the set screws that come with the plug, rather than soldering the plugs to the wire? In general yes. It's because solder can introduce solvents and other chemicals that will can cause corrosion over time, especially commercial solders that contain flux. But the more viable reason is compressing a stranded wire together such as in a crimp or screw-down connection forms a homogeneous cross-section and ensures the best signal transfer. Soldering is fine when done properly, but crimp is generally better. Plus also most people can't do it properly so there's that. -edit- and, of course, this is my opinion. Others will disagree. But I will say that I first learned the quality of a proper crimp when I was an electrician in the Nuclear Navy. US Navy Nuclear Submarines use crimped connections for wire. I concur. Also there's no chance of a dry solder joint with crimping. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jun 24, 2017 20:11:16 GMT -5
Agree 100%, skip soldering.
Not only for the reasons listed, which are probably the most important, but why add another go between into the mix when you don't have to? Bare wire is most direct. Plugs with a good wire locking techinque is next. Soldering is like adding a third link in the chain. I'm not a fan.
Besides boom, have you not already determined the blue jeans sonic weld thing they do provides the least resistance? Why not just buy some nice 10 gauge ones the length you need and be done?
Or get the angled locking stacking plugs I recommended above? Trust me, they are nice.
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Post by geebo on Jun 24, 2017 20:12:16 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, why is that? So then, it is better to connect the speaker wire to the banana plug with the set screws that come with the plug, rather than soldering the plugs to the wire? In general yes. It's because solder can introduce solvents and other chemicals that will can cause corrosion over time, especially commercial solders that contain flux. But the more viable reason is compressing a stranded wire together such as in a crimp or screw-down connection forms a homogeneous cross-section and ensures the best signal transfer. Soldering is fine when done properly, but crimp is generally better. Plus also most people can't do it properly so there's that. -edit- and, of course, this is my opinion. Others will disagree. But I will say that I first learned the quality of a proper crimp when I was an electrician in the Nuclear Navy. US Navy Nuclear Submarines use crimped connections for wire. VW has a recall campaign that calls for the removal of a plug connection under the seat. The recall REQUIRES crimped butt connectors after applying some Stabilant 22A. Soldering is NOT allowed. And this is for a very important airbag connection. If it fails it could cause loss of life. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jun 24, 2017 20:45:53 GMT -5
And a quick question for the audio-literati - About to move the equipment rack over about five feet or more. So I'll need new speaker wires. Better to go 8-gauge with bananas or to go 12-gauge with bare wires? The resistance decrease that I'd gain from going with the heavier-gauge wire will (likely) be offset by the solder interface to the bananas. So (maybe?) the 12-gauge will have the lower resistance? Wire lengths will be five feet and 15 feet. Putting the new sub dead center eh? 😉 One thing. My rack is way over to one side, which means 2 different distances to the speakers, and sounds like what you may be doing. I did a lot of research on this, and asked everyone I knew at the time about it. The general thought is that even though it means TWO longer speaker wire runs, make sure they are the same length. Don't run one wire 5 feet and the other 15 feet. They should both be 15 feet. Of course if this isn't what you are doing just disregard. |
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Post by monkumonku on Jun 24, 2017 21:05:21 GMT -5
And a quick question for the audio-literati - About to move the equipment rack over about five feet or more. So I'll need new speaker wires. Better to go 8-gauge with bananas or to go 12-gauge with bare wires? The resistance decrease that I'd gain from going with the heavier-gauge wire will (likely) be offset by the solder interface to the bananas. So (maybe?) the 12-gauge will have the lower resistance? Wire lengths will be five feet and 15 feet. Putting the new sub dead center eh? 😉 One thing. My rack is way over to one side, which means 2 different distances to the speakers, and sounds like what you may be doing. I did a lot of research on this, and asked everyone I knew at the time about it. The general thought is that even though it means TWO longer speaker wire runs, make sure they are the same length. Don't run one wire 5 feet and the other 15 feet. They should both be 15 feet. Of course if this isn't what you are doing just disregard. Practically speaking, is anyone really going to hear any difference between a 5 foot versus 15 foot wire? You will get more difference from the effect of the placement of the speaker and the room acoustics than you will hearing anything from the wires. My suggestion is to use two different lengths of wire. Then if you hear a difference in speakers, switch the wires around and see if the difference moves from one speaker to the other. |
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Post by RichGuy on Jun 24, 2017 21:18:59 GMT -5
The general thought is that even though it means TWO longer speaker wire runs, make sure they are the same length. Don't run one wire 5 feet and the other 15 feet. They should both be 15 feet. Of course if this isn't what you are doing just disregard. There is no need for equal speaker cable lengths and keeping them equal will do nothing except allow for room rearrangement later. I prefer my cables to be the proper length with no extra length clutter and less chance of unwanted noise being picked up from the mess and coils of extra cable. The speed the signal travels in the cable it would take a huge amount of difference in lengths before it could make an effect in sound. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 25, 2017 3:42:13 GMT -5
THANK YOU all for the feedback - it's appreciated. Several other issues affect my choices:
1. I change equipment often (and never know what's next) and the convenience of bananas is important to me.
2. Because my setup changes often, having flexibility in wire length is more important to me than to most
3. I've concluded that 12 gauge OFC two-strand, PVC-insulated wire is more than sufficient
4. I've concluded that identical wire lengths probably won't matter at all
5. My least expensive option will be to buy a roll of 12-gauge wire and cut it as needed, crimping on bananas without soldering
6. As the system changes, label the different lengths & throw them in the spare parts bin for later use if needed
7. If any show corrosion, cut a foot off and re-crimp some new plugs
8. Since many of my lengths won't be used but on an ad-hoc basis, I don't need locking plugs - standard friction plugs will work fine
9. In a pinch, I can either cut new lengths from the spool or use female-to-female banana unions to add WIRE length. (clarification added for the rest of you Pre-Verts - LOL)
10. These conclusions and solutions are sufficient to my needs, but others are welcome to prefer other options.
Boomzilla
PS: Looking it up, there's a $3 difference between 100 feet of 12 gauge and the same length of 10 gauge. Why not go 10? The only negative I can think of is that if I wish to make bi-wire cables two 12 gauge strands will be easier to crimp to a single banana than two 10s...
AND apologies to Loop 7 for hijacking his thread.
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Post by vneal on Jun 25, 2017 7:35:38 GMT -5
THANK YOU all for the feedback - it's appreciated. Several other issues affect my choices: SEE BELOW 1. I change equipment often (and never know what's next) and the convenience of bananas is important to me. GO BANANAS 2. Because my setup changes often, having flexibility in wire length is more important to me than to most 8 GA 3. I've concluded that 12 gauge OFC two-strand, PVC-insulated wire is more than sufficient 8GA (pennies more) 4. I've concluded that identical wire lengths probably won't matter at all TRUE 5. My least expensive option will be to buy a roll of 12-gauge wire and cut it as needed, crimping on bananas without soldering (8GA PENNIES MORE) 6. As the system changes, label the different lengths & throw them in the spare parts bin for later use if needed WASTE OF $$$ 7. If any show corrosion, cut a foot off and re-crimp some new plugs BANANAS 8. Since many of my lengths won't be used but on an ad-hoc basis, I don't need locking plugs - standard friction plugs will work fine BANANAS 9. In a pinch, I can either cut new lengths from the spool or use female-to-female banana unions to add WIRE length. (clarification added for the rest of you Pre-Verts - LOL) BANANAS 8GA 10. These conclusions and solutions are sufficient to my needs, but others are welcome to prefer other options. Boomzilla PS: Looking it up, there's a $3 difference between 100 feet of 12 gauge and the same length of 10 gauge. Why not go 10? The only negative I can think of is that if I wish to make bi-wire cables two 12 gauge strands will be easier to crimp to a single banana than two 10s... AND apologies to Loop 7 for hijacking his thread. ME, I USE KIMBER KABLE 12TC AND WOULD NOT USE ANYTHING ELSE. WHY AM I YELLING? Sorry. |
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Post by Loop 7 on Jun 25, 2017 16:15:26 GMT -5
For anyone who makes their own cables or anyone who wants to start... Would you mind posting which brand/model cable sleeves and pants you buy and from where? |
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Post by RichGuy on Jun 25, 2017 17:21:39 GMT -5
For anyone who makes their own cables or anyone who wants to start... Would you mind posting which brand/model cable sleeves and pants you buy and from where? Sure Cable Pants - Parts Express both direct and thru Amazon (still Parts Express selling thru Amazon) Tech Flex Sleeving - I have bought from many sources, one of the best is from ebay an ebay seller named "furryletters". Another good source is www.wirecare.com they have a very large selection to choose from. The "Clean Cut" style is one of the nicest, it is softer, nicer looking and easier to work with. Shrink Tube - Flat black I buy from many sources. For nice Glossy Black or Glossy Red and other colors I buy from www.wirecare.com they have a nice Glossy selection that is hard to find. Note the glossy black and glossy red are what is on the twisted ends on my speaker cables. |
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Post by novisnick on Jun 25, 2017 17:54:27 GMT -5
Would you mind posting which brand/model cable sleeves and pants you buy and from where? Sure Cable Pants - Parts Express both direct and thru Amazon (still Parts Express selling thru Amazon) Tech Flex Sleeving - I have bought from many sources, one of the best is from ebay an ebay seller named "furryletters". Another good source is www.wirecare.com they have a very large selection to choose from. The "Clean Cut" style is one of the nicest, it is softer, nicer looking and easier to work with. Shrink Tube - Flat black I buy from many sources. For nice Glossy Black or Glossy Red and other colors I buy from www.wirecare.com they have a nice Glossy selection that is hard to find. Note the glossy black and glossy red are what is on the twisted ends on my speaker cables. Thanks |
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