Do Banana Plugs Shrink Or Am I Going Crazy?

[bluemeanies]

Jun 21, 2017 19:29:15 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

It's not the bananas, Loop 7 - you were crazy before! LOL

Forgive me - I couldn't resist...

And now to your question - Yes - Bananas are "snug" when they're new due to the tension of the metal "blades" of the banana plug (basically stretched sheet metal with a gold plating). Over time, the compression of the (much thicker and stronger) jacks will deform the plugs slightly and make them looser.

There are several ways around this (if it bothers you):

1. Use "locking bananas" - These plugs are tensioned not by the sheet metal of the plug, but rather by a "screw-in cone" inside the banana that forces the blades outward against the jacks. With the locking bananas , there's no worry about the elasticity of the banana blades because the screw-plug will retighten them on every insertion.

2. You can (if you're very, very careful) re-bend the blades of the banana plugs to have greater tension. I've used the tip of a knife blade to do this. But it is EASY to damage the plugs with this method and I don't recommend it.

3. Use the "DYohn method" - Cut the bananas off the wires & use just the bare copper strands tightened into your speaker jacks. This isn't as convenient as having bananas, but it probably gives the best connection, and without any additional steel / solder / copper / gold interfaces.

You can use spades, but then you get all the negatives of the bananas without any of their convenience. The best option (if you really want bananas) is to cut off the bananas currently on the wires and solder on some locking bananas. Second best (some convenience, but not as much as bananas) would be to cut off the existing bananas & tin the tips of the bare wires for insertion into your speaker jacks. Third best for convenience (but best for connectivity) is to cut off the bananas & use the bare, stranded wires in your speaker jacks.

Or, of course, you could just quit worrying about & use your bananas as they are. After all, the weight of the wire probably cocks the banana in the sockets sufficiently to ensure a good connection.

Best of luck - Boomzilla

Have to agree with Boom here...not entirely...I found that over the years with using banana plugs they were fine unless one would be in constant change plugging and unplugging. Other than that I nor my friends have never had problems.
Once I got into tubes a couple of years ago I turn to LOCKING PLUGS as Boom has suggested. Just be aware NOT to tighten these plugs but rather just make them snug. What I have found is that after time they become more tight b/c of heat and cooling changes.
The bare wire as Boom has suggested has always been a favorite with old timers going back to the early sixties. Some lay claim that sonics are better heard using this method.
I'm am an old timer LOL so my ears are not like they use to be but there is nothing wrong with this method, and your saving a few bucks.
FYI...with the latter method make sure if using stranded wire that the the strands are twisted tightly so's not to make contact with the chassis. The unit will SHORT just with a single strand of wire touching another terminal or the chassis itself.

[bluemeanies]

Jun 21, 2017 23:44:09 GMT -5 Loop 7 said:

Darn! I just realized Audioquest has banana plugs for $50. That's $50 for a single plug not a pair.

I myself am not into that ESOTERIC group when it comes to cables.
Audio8 I have found make a good product. Nice to look at and reasonably priced.
Over the years I have had Monster Cables when they were at the top of their game, and MIT2 Terminator cables and honestly I could not tell the difference relating to sound.
Cables are subjective or more to the point a person hears what they want to hear.
Granted perhaps a younger persons tuning fork is more in tune but no one has convinced me thus far that spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a meters worth of speaker cable is worth the return.
Of course this is my opinion.
I currently have Nackamichi speakers cables. Good quality, and reasonably priced.

www.nakamichiplug.com/product-c34b25.html

www.8audio-mall.com/

[Bonzo]

Jun 24, 2017 21:05:21 GMT -5 monkumonku said:

Jun 24, 2017 20:45:53 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Putting the new sub dead center eh? 😉

One thing. My rack is way over to one side, which means 2 different distances to the speakers, and sounds like what you may be doing. I did a lot of research on this, and asked everyone I knew at the time about it. The general thought is that even though it means TWO longer speaker wire runs, make sure they are the same length. Don't run one wire 5 feet and the other 15 feet. They should both be 15 feet. Of course if this isn't what you are doing just disregard.

Practically speaking, is anyone really going to hear any difference between a 5 foot versus 15 foot wire? You will get more difference from the effect of the placement of the speaker and the room acoustics than you will hearing anything from the wires. My suggestion is to use two different lengths of wire. Then if you hear a difference in speakers, switch the wires around and see if the difference moves from one speaker to the other.

monkumonku and RichGuy, I was only going by what I was told by the so called experts, and that was many many years ago. I've just stuck with it since. It's not caused any problems I can tell you that.

My guess is a full conversation on the topic would go a lot like normal cable conversations, and I think you guys know what that means.

I will say one thing and be done. There are people here who have mentioned that one of the main attributes for them to having monoblocks is so you can run shorter speaker wire from the amp to the speaker. If memory serves one such person is Gary Cook, no? If a person finds shorter runs to be beneficial, I'm thinking that same person would consider wires of non-equal lengths to be a "no no." But I could be wrong. As are many things in this hobby, it's probably just a matter of semantics about little to nothing.

[monkumonku]

Jun 26, 2017 8:31:21 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Jun 24, 2017 21:05:21 GMT -5 monkumonku said:

Practically speaking, is anyone really going to hear any difference between a 5 foot versus 15 foot wire? You will get more difference from the effect of the placement of the speaker and the room acoustics than you will hearing anything from the wires. My suggestion is to use two different lengths of wire. Then if you hear a difference in speakers, switch the wires around and see if the difference moves from one speaker to the other.

monkumonku and RichGuy, I was only going by what I was told by the so called experts, and that was many many years ago. I've just stuck with it since. It's not caused any problems I can tell you that.

My guess is a full conversation on the topic would go a lot like normal cable conversations, and I think you guys know what that means.

I will say one thing and be done. There are people here who have mentioned that one of the main attributes for them to having monoblocks is so you can run shorter speaker wire from the amp to the speaker. If memory serves one such person is Gary Cook, no? If a person finds shorter runs to be beneficial, I'm thinking that same person would consider wires of non-equal lengths to be a "no no." But I could be wrong. As are many things in this hobby, it's probably just a matter of semantics about little to nothing.

Well when it comes to experts... expert sports pundits who always get it right. Expert stock market analysts who always get it right. Expert pollsters who called the presidential election right. The only way you really know they are experts is because that is how they and their cronies refer to themselves.

But you summed it up nicely - your last sentence says it all.

[Bonzo]

Jun 26, 2017 8:53:37 GMT -5 monkumonku said:

Well when it comes to experts...

Most likely experts just trying to sell me more speaker wire.

Good thing I wasn't buying that $1000 a foot stuff.

[Gary Cook]

Jun 26, 2017 8:31:21 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

There are people here who have mentioned that one of the main attributes for them to having monoblocks is so you can run shorter speaker wire from the amp to the speaker. If memory serves one such person is Gary Cook, no?

In my case I swapped from short RCA interconnects (75 cm) and long speaker cables (6 metres) to long XLR interconnects (5 metres) and short speaker cables (1 metre). The combined effect was a noticeable reduction, to zero, introduced noise (not that there was lot to begin with). It's not really possible to do a back to back comparison due to the obvious physical constraints, but there are some indications of improved damping. Keeping in mind that the damping factor is the ratio of the load impedance (speaker + speaker wire) to the amplifier's internal output impedance. Without any change in the sub woofer (speaker and amp) there is a subtle improvement in the mid bass output of the woofers. It's for sure not night and day, with the very high damping factor of the XPA-1L's I wouldn't expect it to be. But with,say, a tube amp of very low damping factor it may well be far more pronounced.

If a person finds shorter runs to be beneficial, I'm thinking that same person would consider wires of non-equal lengths to be a "no no." But I could be wrong. As are many things in this hobby, it's probably just a matter of semantics about little to nothing.

I have always run equal length speaker wiring, for example prior to the change (above) I could have had one 6 metre and one 5 metre speaker cable, but I chose to have them both at 6 metres. It's one of the few things that I haven't tried a back to back comparison, maybe one day when I have time

Sorry, just remembered, way back when I was doing live show audio the sound engineer told me to always run equal length wiring for the on stage monitors but not to worry too much about the audience speakers. That was with tube powered amps.


Cheers
Gary