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Post by Loop 7 on Jul 12, 2017 18:03:37 GMT -5
Just read the review.
I've heard a few different Zu Audio speakers at shows and I think they can be sub-optimal unless paired with the right amp. At two shows, the sound from the Zu room drove us out of the room with it's hardness; I'm talking headache. The third time I heard a Zu setup, I didn't want to leave. It was gorgeously smooth but had substantial upper frequency extension.
Here's a video hosted by Herb interviewing the owner of High Water Sound in Brooklyn.
Eccentric, esoteric and entertaining in my mind and it might give you an idea what he loves in terms of sound.
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Post by garbulky on Jul 12, 2017 18:15:05 GMT -5
I haven't read the review but this is the first time that Emotiva has actually done even slightly badly on measurement tests. Usually they come out stellar. Just look at the XPA-2 gen 1 and XPR-1 measurements from audioholics. They are very nice! So unusual, but then again this is a relatively new foray for them using very powerful switching power supplies.
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Post by leonski on Jul 12, 2017 18:21:53 GMT -5
Different people ask for different things from their amps.
I like Pace / Rhythm and Timing. The music must FLOW. I've heard Live Music which lacked that characteristic and found it alternately boring and unlistenable.
Boom apparently likes whatever his definition of 'Musical' is. And pays a lot of attention to imaging which is nice, but might in some cases, actually be a Studio / Engineering Effect rather
than part of the 'real' performance.
And, as Boom points out, the Movie Experience and the Music Experience are 2 different things. NOBODY knows what half the effects and other noises in a movie Really Sound Like.
Listen to stuff in the real world. 'Singing' tires on a semi? All sound a little different from truck to truck. But don't think for a second you are hearing 'that' truck in the movie. The effect
has been processed and might even be a generic Foley effect.
Sound effects are a terrific and necessary part of the movie. Just don't mistake it for 'accurate', 'musical', or 'real'.
Music, OTOH has a reality basis. I think every audiophile SHOULD be compelled to listen to Real Live Music. Some of the stuff like Imaging is not quite the same when you listen to an Orchestra and every
seat has a different presentation. Up close? 25th row? Dead Center? Off in the wings? Even the Weather can effect OutDoor music. When I go to San Diego to listen to the Spreckles Organ, i much
prefer WINTER when I may be able to listen on a damp day. Much better sound than at 90f and ZERO humidity.
So, Audio, it may actually BE besides the point. Though I suspect most persons would be offended by 5% distortion in a Flute Solo while deaf to the same %age of distortion from a Kettle Drum.
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Post by novisnick on Jul 12, 2017 18:36:51 GMT -5
Just read the review. I've heard a few different Zu Audio speakers at shows and I think they can be sub-optimal unless paired with the right amp. At two shows, the sound from the Zu room drove us out of the room with it's hardness; I'm talking headache. The third time I heard a Zu setup, I didn't want to leave. It was gorgeously smooth but had substantial upper frequency extension. Here's a video hosted by Herb interviewing the owner of High Water Sound in Brooklyn. Eccentric, esoteric and entertaining in my mind and it might give you an idea what he loves in terms of sound. I just want to TRY what these guys had to smoke!! 😲🎉🎶😇 |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 12, 2017 19:13:38 GMT -5
Sound effects are a terrific and necessary part of the movie. Just don't mistake it for 'accurate', 'musical', or 'real'. But movies are so much more than sound effects, we need a good system to experience all of the sound track, especially the music. That sets the mood, imagine Anatomy of a Murder without the fabulous music sounding just right (eg; the Duke at work) Cheers Gary |
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Post by leonski on Jul 12, 2017 20:10:00 GMT -5
Let me know next time you sit down to watch or maybe critically listen to a movie.
Sure, music is an important part of a movie.
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Post by pedrocols on Jul 13, 2017 9:50:19 GMT -5
A bad movie is a bad movie even with stellar audio. Don't take my word for it just ask Roger Ebert.
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Post by Loop 7 on Jul 13, 2017 10:59:36 GMT -5
But, once again, what do they sound like, or is that beside the point? Totally beside the point. |
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Post by leonski on Jul 13, 2017 12:06:56 GMT -5
Since no 'real' reference exists for what most stuff in a movie sounds like (I'll go with music as the exception) I'll agree with Loop7.
To the extent that the same system is than used for music listening, in some cases 'criticl', than it DOES make a difference.
I don't know that much 'critical listening' is done during movies. Too much popcorn crunching.
As for Ped? A good movie with a poor sound track is still a good movie. The BR transfer of 'The Omega Man' (Charlton Heston) is a pretty
neat adaptation of the book but the soundtrack is only OK, at best. Some complaints were also registered about Amadeus, the movie about the life
and times of Mozart where you'd hope for and Expect a stellar sound track.
If you want to hear and see a very engrossing movie, check out 'Black Orpheus'. A Brazilian Import with much music provided by Antonio Carlos Jobim.
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Post by garbulky on Jul 13, 2017 12:38:39 GMT -5
I just read the review on the XPA gen 3 amps on stereophile. Looking at the measurements, I notice that it hits 1% distortion near the top of the frquency range - 20khz at only 50 watts of output with distortion rising at 15khz. And the 19, 20 khz test caused all kinds of issues with it. A pity. The review also noticed it sounding different depending on the speaker but not always in a good way. It seemed to love the Magnepans but not do quite as well on other speakers.
The reviewer did like its iron fisted control though.
John Atkinson said it did "very poorly" on the higher frequency tests. The 1khz test had the distortion wave forms just -33db away from the peak.
I wonder if there was an issue going on with the testing. Usually Emotiva amps measure superbly in tests. I guess this is the price of doing away with "obsolete" torroidal transformers....
Herb however was very hard to understand. I get the importance of "artistic language" in subjective reviews. My listening is subjective and I get in to colorful language.
But look at some of these lines. "the system sort of dragged its hind leg."
"The unusual solidness was almost brutal. All aspects of soft or feminine had dissapeared. Elastic and saturated tones. Gently provocative detail. 100% masculine disegno."
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Post by pedrocols on Jul 13, 2017 12:48:01 GMT -5
Since no 'real' reference exists for what most stuff in a movie sounds like (I'll go with music as the exception) I'll agree with Loop7. To the extent that the same system is than used for music listening, in some cases 'criticl', than it DOES make a difference. I don't know that much 'critical listening' is done during movies. Too much popcorn crunching. As for Ped? A good movie with a poor sound track is still a good movie. The BR transfer of 'The Omega Man' (Charlton Heston) is a pretty neat adaptation of the book but the soundtrack is only OK, at best. Some complaints were also registered about Amadeus, the movie about the life and times of Mozart where you'd hope for and Expect a stellar sound track. If you want to hear and see a very engrossing movie, check out 'Black Orpheus'. A Brazilian Import with much music provided by Antonio Carlos Jobim. Precisely! I do not judge movies based on how they sound that it is just plain silly. But then again I am not a reviwer so nobody cares for what I have to say...😎 |
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Post by teaman on Jul 13, 2017 13:21:43 GMT -5
I just read the review on the XPA gen 3 amps on stereophile. Looking at the measurements, I notice that it hits 1% distortion near the top of the frquency range - 20khz at only 50 watts of output with distortion rising at 15khz. And the 19, 20 khz test caused all kinds of issues with it. A pity. The review also noticed it sounding different depending on the speaker but not always in a good way. It seemed to love the Magnepans but not do quite as well on other speakers. The reviewer did like its iron fisted control though. John Atkinson said it did "very poorly" on the higher frequency tests. The 1khz test had the distortion wave forms just -33db away from the peak. I wonder if there was an issue going on with the testing. Usually Emotiva amps measure superbly in tests. I guess this is the price of doing away with "obsolete" torroidal transformers.... Herb however was very hard to understand. I get the importance of "artistic language" in subjective reviews. My listening is subjective and I get in to colorful language. But look at some of these lines. "the system sort of dragged its hind leg." "The unusual solidness was almost brutal. All aspects of soft or feminine had dissapeared. Elastic and saturated tones. Gently provocative detail. 100% masculine disegno." I was not impressed in the least with the review this month. I'm glad I picked up my Gen 1 and Gen 2 when I did instead of waiting to see about the Gen 3. |
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Post by adaboy on Jul 13, 2017 13:56:29 GMT -5
Since no 'real' reference exists for what most stuff in a movie sounds like (I'll go with music as the exception) I'll agree with Loop7. To the extent that the same system is than used for music listening, in some cases 'criticl', than it DOES make a difference. I don't know that much 'critical listening' is done during movies. Too much popcorn crunching. As for Ped? A good movie with a poor sound track is still a good movie. The BR transfer of 'The Omega Man' (Charlton Heston) is a pretty neat adaptation of the book but the soundtrack is only OK, at best. Some complaints were also registered about Amadeus, the movie about the life and times of Mozart where you'd hope for and Expect a stellar sound track. If you want to hear and see a very engrossing movie, check out 'Black Orpheus'. A Brazilian Import with much music provided by Antonio Carlos Jobim. Being that Mozart was too busy writing his female cousin "graphic letters" oh and his own mother I'd say the sound track was the least of thing to worry about. Lol |
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Post by leonski on Jul 13, 2017 14:23:07 GMT -5
Nobody could ever say the guy didn't have issues!
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Post by doc1963 on Jul 13, 2017 14:35:51 GMT -5
I have not read the review (and cannot until it goes online), but I find this thread very disheartening since I just took delivery of a brand new XPA-5 "Gen 3". I haven't even opened the box...  Granted, the sole purpose for my XPA-5 has always been to power my center and surround channels. With the ability to expand the Gen 3 platform, my goal is to eventually add four additional channels (two "stereo" blades) to power the overhead "height" channels of Atmos and DTS-X. I had the opportunity to sell my original XPA-5 "Gen 1" to a friend, and did. So, for me, there's no going back. If the feedback I'm reading here is as negative as it seems, I really don't understand why there's such a stark difference between the Stereophile review and that of Secrets of Home Theater & High Fidelity which gave it exceptionally high praise (along with their "Bad Ass" award). Something's amiss here. Hopefully, Dan or Lonnie will offer some insight... |
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Post by brubacca on Jul 13, 2017 15:00:40 GMT -5
open your amp and enjoy. If it doesn't fit your needs sent it back within the return window.
You should have a good basis from what your old amp sounded like. Forget what Stereophile and what we say. Hook that amp up and listen to it.
It didn't measure well. No big deal. sound is all that matters.
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 13, 2017 15:23:17 GMT -5
open your amp and enjoy. If it doesn't fit your needs sent it back within the return window. You should have a good basis from what your old amp sounded like. Forget what Stereophile and what we say. Hook that amp up and listen to it. It didn't measure well. No big deal. sound is all that matters. Of course it helps to see specs because it helps when trying to do an apples to apples comparison with competing products. On the other hand, sometimes people get carried away with specs to the detriment of the bottom line which ought to be listening pleasure. If it sounds good then what does it matter what the specs say? If we were to go and look at all the detailed specs of every product we use (such as our cars, appliances, food we eat, etc.), we'd probably be unhappy with everything we own. Some people's fascination with specs is akin to someone going to eat at a restaurant and then demanding to have a tour of the kitchen before eating, demanding to know what all of the ingredients are in their order, and how it was prepared and what the temperature is in the fridge, where the chef learned his or her trade, etc. And then not being able to enjoy the meal after finding out that some spice used was not the highest grade available. Also, I don't put any credence in Stereophile reviews anyway because it's all about snobbery with them. They've got advertisers with really expensive products they have to keep happy. I'm sure Dan and Lonnie and the powers that be will have a response to the review, too. |
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Post by mgbpuff on Jul 13, 2017 15:24:41 GMT -5
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Post by novisnick on Jul 13, 2017 15:33:08 GMT -5
open your amp and enjoy. If it doesn't fit your needs sent it back within the return window. You should have a good basis from what your old amp sounded like. Forget what Stereophile and what we say. Hook that amp up and listen to it. It didn't measure well. No big deal. sound is all that matters.  What he said! 😁 |
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Post by doc1963 on Jul 13, 2017 16:00:47 GMT -5
Yes indeed, and thank you, that is the review I had in mind, but misstated it as "Audioholics". My original post has been corrected...  |
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