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Post by RichGuy on Jul 14, 2017 16:38:03 GMT -5
Opinion, for connecting fully balanced/discrete components (in my case XSP-1 to XPA-1L's) XLR balanced is the go, it completes/compliments the design. So unless you have an introduced noise problem I seriously doubt that you will notice any difference. Yes, if your equipment is fully balanced it's designed to use a balanced XLR balanced connection (or balanced TRS instead of XLR). To not use this balanced connection is a huge waste. Many of the internal components are doubled in balanced equipment. A differential balanced component is electrically transmitting information using two complementary signals of opposite polarity and together they eliminate almost all unwanted noise. Another thing is introduced noise is not always a consistent or permanent problem, sometimes it's just temporarily there, annoying for the time being even if not a permanent problem, however better noise protection could have avoided it altogether. |
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Post by RichGuy on Jul 14, 2017 16:57:31 GMT -5
[quote author=" RichGuy" "XLR connectors are superior for their durability at the connection especially the input the RCA itself. RCA's often are too tight that they can break inputs ........" Wrong wrong once again The discussion would be comparing these two types of connectors of EQUAL BUILD quality not old style rca. Sure, very easy to trash RCA out of context like anything else. Bill No it's you that is wrong as usual, many Emotiva products (as well as other brands) have both XLR and RCA inputs like my XPA-2 and XPA-5 (GEN 1) where the XLR's are very robust and the RCA's are very fragile. Yes Emotiva improved this on the later GEN 2 models. Also most RCA's on most equipment is of the weaker crimped on style that can be damaged by tight RCA's. Similar to the three bears porridge RCA's can be too loose, too tight or just right and it often varies, even with the same make and model components. Where as XLR's are made by design to always have that just right feel, never too loose or too tight. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 14, 2017 21:24:42 GMT -5
...Where as XLR's are made by design to always have that just right feel, never too loose or too tight. I'd have to agree with you on this one, RichGuy |
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XLR or RCA
Jul 14, 2017 21:25:39 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 405x5 on Jul 14, 2017 21:25:39 GMT -5
Wow!
The B.S. got so thick here, I nearly forgot the original question, that has been satisfactorily answered ( I think).
Bill
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Post by RichGuy on Jul 14, 2017 21:43:06 GMT -5
Neutrik XLR black gold are my favorite XLR's, excellent quality with a black die cast metal body, gold plated copper connections, rubber boot with polyurethane gland. These are very well made, excellent to work with and have a very good chuck style strain relief. They have a nice quality you can feel working with them and solder very nice as well. Mogami wire is my favorite wire to use with them for excellent high quality cables. Neutrik NC3MXX-B Gold XLR-Male Connector    |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 15, 2017 18:46:24 GMT -5
In a professional environment where we are constantly plugging and unplugging gear, especially working with a traveling band, robust connectors such as XLR's make the most sense. But in a home hifi environment where we plug stuff in and it stays that way for months, years, decades even they seriously are a bit of an overkill. Especially when the components we are plugging them into take no real advantage of the balanced connection and/or there is no introduced noise problem. Audio is the game here and if there is no audible difference then it's overkill. To some people "overkill" in home audio is where they live, why have 100 watts, which is more than enough, when you can have 200 watts, why have 8" drivers when there are 10" or 12", even though you have a sub that makes them redundant The overkill temptation is endless and it's more about bragging rights than real world sound differences. Without the gear at both ends to accomodate it, or an introduced noise problem that it will solve, that's where I place XLR connections, for most people and most systems it's plain and simple overkill. Just another way to waste our time, money and effort. From someone who has used more XLR connections that most people see in their lifetime, "Fit for purpose" is a commonly used descriptor and that in most cases applies to RCA's. So unless your gear and your environment falls in to that very small category, RCA's are more than "fit for your purpose".
Cheers
Gary
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 15, 2017 19:06:01 GMT -5
LOL - I don't think I've gone a week without rearranging almost everything (including interconnects) for several years now. But (thankfully) I'm the exception rather than the rule.
My audio amigo, Walter, literally leaves his gear alone until it either fails or becomes so obsolete that it's functionally retarded. Last time Walt noticed something wrong was when his surround speakers (driven by his McIntosh that he bought in college) became "scratchy." Walt went to unplug the interconnects and found a huge ball of galvanic corrosion around the RCA input jacks. Walt, being an engineer, promptly cut off the old plugs, cut the interconnect wires back a few inches, soldered on some new plugs, and after cleaning the Mac's input jacks, plans on using it "as is" for another couple of decades.
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 16, 2017 8:58:28 GMT -5
In a professional environment where we are constantly plugging and unplugging gear, especially working with a traveling band, robust connectors such as XLR's make the most sense. But in a home hifi environment where we plug stuff in and it stays that way for months, years, decades even they seriously are a bit of an overkill. Especially when the components we are plugging them into take no real advantage of the balanced connection and/or there is no introduced noise problem. Audio is the game here and if there is no audible difference then it's overkill. To some people "overkill" in home audio is where they live, why have 100 watts, which is more than enough, when you can have 200 watts, why have 8" drivers when there are 10" or 12", even though you have a sub that makes them redundant The overkill temptation is endless and it's more about bragging rights than real world sound differences. Without the gear at both ends to accomodate it, or an introduced noise problem that it will solve, that's where I place XLR connections, for most people and most systems it's plain and simple overkill. Just another way to waste our time, money and effort. From someone who has used more XLR connections that most people see in their lifetime, "Fit for purpose" is a commonly used descriptor and that in most cases applies to RCA's. So unless your gear and your environment falls in to that very small category, RCA's are more than "fit for your purpose". Cheers Gary Exactly great post Bill |
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 16, 2017 9:14:26 GMT -5
All my primary home gear is top tier, (AV Processor, amplifier, and high resolution blu ray).
All have high quality XLR input and output option.
All components are within 1 meter of each other.
I have avoided the "well it can't hurt" never ending syndrome and simply use my high quality RCA's and have simple, perfect, noise free connections.
Only one XLR do I use, as I had posted earlier, a 16 foot run to the subwoofer, as a workaround to a possible interference issue that turned out to be unfounded.
Bill
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Post by sahmen on Jul 16, 2017 10:23:37 GMT -5
To be fair, though, I do not completely get the XLR is "overkill" part, especially when it comes to prices. I still have a set of RCA interconnects (many of them still unused) that I ordered in 2013 from one aftermarket/boutique establishment which are more expensive than the XLR interconnects I later purchased from Monoprice. I started insisting on using balanced XLRs for the 2-channel stereo circuitry in my 5.1 rig when I got a pair of monoblocks to power my 2 fronts. Almost immediately, it dawned on me that the back of my XMC-1 will look a lot tidier if I go all XLR, rather than mixing XLR with RCA interconnects, so I went all XLR for all channels and I haven't looked back... Funny thing is, many of the RCA interconnects I initially ordered for the same purpose are now lying idle (although I can use them in other future applications in different setups, if that becomes necessary)... The point I am making here is that the XLR interconnects are working nicely in this application, and at a lesser cost than the RCAs I ordered from the aftermarket boutique I have alluded to, and I am sure they are better suited for my two-channel circuitry since it is all balanced, from source to my XPA-1 gen 2 monoblocks (through the Yggdrasil, Violectric v281 headphone amp/Preamp, and the XMC-1) than the single-ended RCAs, so I do not really see where any "overkill" is occurring.
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 16, 2017 12:35:33 GMT -5
"To be fair, though, I do not completely get the XLR is "overkill" part, especially when it comes to prices. I still have a set of RCA interconnects (many of them still unused) that I ordered in 2013 from one aftermarket/boutique establishment which are more expensive than the XLR interconnects I later purchased from Monoprice." That's a good point regarding pricing, that there are plenty of RCA interconnects that are ridiculously overpriced. Compared to some of their more utilitarian XLR counterparts. Bill |
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Post by RichGuy on Jul 16, 2017 12:56:48 GMT -5
To be fair, though, I do not completely get the XLR is "overkill" part, especially when it comes to prices. I don't either. I have both RCA and XLR connections in my system although everywhere I can make an XLR connection at both ends I have made that choice and went with XLR over RCA. As far as cost I paid less for my XLR cables than my RCA cables actually a lot less. However every XLR cable I have I feel in my personal opinion is the very best that is available and I wouldn't change them for any other cable, any other brand wire or brand connector, now this is just me and my opinion and everyone has their own preferences and opinions. My RCA cables on the other hand although I paid much more for, I like them but to be honest I'd rather replace them and probably eventually will, I'll probably make some new ones and again they will cost much more than my XLR cables did which I personally wouldn't replace with any other cable given the choice. However I would replace any of my RCA cables with what I use for my current XLR cables if I had that option. Now this is just my opinion and I am a person who does like quality cables for many reasons which do include both appearance and sound quality. Now for me personally I also think of alot of other things as well some of them are overall design, durability, strength, preferring to make my own cables I think of how they are to work with, how they assemble, solder and so on but I do care more about the final finished result. There are a lot of factors I put into my choices in cable, a lot more than the average person does or cares to. Overkill? Sure to the average person pretty much everything in my system is overkill but it's my hobby and I enjoy it. For the average normal person pretty much everything Emotiva makes is overkill. What me normal?  Now back to the original question XLR or RCA? I prefer XLR. |
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Post by cwt on Jul 16, 2017 13:10:06 GMT -5
Funny thing is, many of the RCA interconnects I initially ordered for the same purpose are now lying idle (although I can use them in other future applications in different setups, if that becomes necessary)... The point I am making here is that the XLR interconnects are working nicely in this application, and at a lesser cost than the RCAs I ordered from the aftermarket boutique I have alluded to, and I am sure they are better suited for my two-channel circuitry since it is all balanced, from source to my XPA-1 gen 2 monoblocks (through the Yggdrasil, Violectric v281 headphone amp/Preamp, and the XMC-1) than the single-ended RCAs, so I do not really see where any "overkill" is occurring. I think many here are in your situation sahmen ; draws full of spdif coax and optical leeds that are increasingly redundant for multichannel as hdmi strengthens its hold [ though not by its connector lol ]  I admire certain top of the line pre pro's that are losing their unbalanced pre outs and putting the money towards balanced only ; a trend that may trickle down to where every component cent counts [ if more atmos channels are needed hah  ] Those being the coming trinnov altitude 16 and the RMC1 which admittedly is balanced input to output. Most ce's though are stuck in their ways ; emo at least discard the really unessential .. |
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XLR or RCA
Jul 16, 2017 15:25:06 GMT -5
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 16, 2017 15:25:06 GMT -5
" that are increasingly redundant for multichannel as hdmi strengthens its hold [ though not by its connector lol " You said it! Interesting how much of this thread has been about XLR termination being so robust, like a fortress. And yet the data for amplification runs around in the cheesiest multi signal cable that's ever been around. Bill |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 16, 2017 16:05:12 GMT -5
Now back to the original question XLR or RCA? I prefer XLR. My answer is whatever is "fit for purpose", if that's RCA interconnects then I use them. If the gear that is being connected takes full advantage of balanced circuitry and/or there is introduced noise then I use XLR's. My experience has been that given equally quality there is a significant cost saving in RCA's. Given inequal quality then any cost comparison is meaningless. Cheers Gary |
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Post by RichGuy on Jul 16, 2017 16:09:29 GMT -5
You said it! Interesting how much of this thread has been about XLR termination being so robust, like a fortress. And yet the data for amplification runs around in the cheesiest multi signal cable that's ever been around. Bill Yet RCA remains the only connector I have ever removed and was very worried something might break. Many RCA's are very tight and many RCA input connectors are very weak. |
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XLR or RCA
Jul 16, 2017 17:15:31 GMT -5
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 16, 2017 17:15:31 GMT -5
[quote author=" RichGuy" said:"RCA remains the only connector I have ever removed and was very worried something might break. Many RCA's are very tight and many RCA input connectors are very weak." To have an RCA problem of any kind, I need to go all the way back to 1963 with vintage RCA aluminum input/output that suffered from corrosion and oxidation. Ancient problem, ancient history....everything now gold plated and virtually bulletproof. An RCA plug end adjustment is simple as pie for those who know how. Should be no more problematical than any other. Bill |
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Post by RichGuy on Jul 16, 2017 17:20:21 GMT -5
That's a good point regarding pricing, that there are plenty of RCA interconnects that are ridiculously overpriced. Compared to some of their more utilitarian XLR counterparts. Bill My answer is whatever is "fit for purpose", if that's RCA interconnects then I use them. If the gear that is being connected takes full advantage of balanced circuitry and/or there is introduced noise then I use XLR's. My experience has been that given equally quality there is a significant cost saving in RCA's. Given inequal quality then any cost comparison is meaningless. Cheers Gary This is another of my points XLR's don't really share the ridiculous (audiophile) markups as RCA's do. XLR has been more aimed at the professional market and generally more at quality than audiophile hype. So XLR's are really more the bargain and not costing more than RCA's but more often less, especially for quality. Personally I'd rather use Neutrik XLR connectors, average cost about $4 each over any make or model RCA connector of any price which can easily be 20 times this or even much more. |
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Post by RichGuy on Jul 16, 2017 17:32:54 GMT -5
[quote author=" RichGuy" said:"RCA remains the only connector I have ever removed and was very worried something might break. Many RCA's are very tight and many RCA input connectors are very weak." To have an RCA problem of any kind, I need to go all the way back to 1963 with vintage RCA aluminum input/output that suffered from corrosion and oxidation. Ancient problem, ancient history....everything now gold plated and virtually bulletproof. An RCA plug end adjustment is simple as pie for those who know how. Should be no more problematical than any other. Bill Sorry again you are completely wrong, this is a very current problem and one that is far more prevalent now than ever before it really didn't even exist in the 60's. Most RCA inputs on most equipment is of the cheaper type (not the nice machined screw together type as most of on the XMC-1's RCA inputs) While many RCA cable connectors are a machined style and can fit very tightly. When you remove these they can damage the equipment, this is often a problem with current RCA connections of many brands. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 16, 2017 17:52:34 GMT -5
Sorry again you are completely wrong, this is a very current problem and one that is far more prevalent now than ever before it really didn't even exist in the 60's. Most RCA inputs on most equipment is of the cheaper type (not the nice machined screw together type as most of on the XMC-1's RCA inputs) While many RCA cable connectors are a machined style and can fit very tightly. When you remove these they can damage the equipment, this is often a problem with current RCA connections of many brands. Ever tried to unplug an XLR connection when they fail? Which, when you are handling hundreds per night, happens not as infrequently as some would think. They all do at some time, price/quality is no barrier. Makes adjusting RCA male plugs tension a breeze. Cheers Gary |
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] Those being the coming trinnov altitude 16 and the RMC1 which admittedly is balanced input to output. Most ce's though are stuck in their ways ; emo at least discard the really unessential .. 