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Post by audiobill on Jul 18, 2017 7:08:53 GMT -5
Gar obviously likes bulk, in transformers, speakers, etc....interesting how many ways there are to achieve a good outcome, especially these days.....
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jul 18, 2017 9:53:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but that is a LOT of money for a bookshelf speaker.... (We're talking FOUR pairs of Stealth 8's and a DC-1 to go with them.... and a lifetime subscription to your favorite streaming service.) There are also a LOT of options out there for $10k and under..... Maybe they really are that good... but, for that much money, I'm not going to take anybody's word for it.  Yeah I'm just saying $11,000 for a bookshelf setup.... Unless you are limited to bookshelf systems by space, I would much prefer a larger setup at that price. I've heard a lot of designers selling "magic" using "groundbreaking" electronic designs. Or they have some "amazing" physical design that no other speaker has. The result is not as groundbreaking as one might expect. At $11,000 it needs to compete against tried and tested high end units which offer some really good performance. And if I was spending 11 grand, I don't want to spend it on bookshelves. At say 3 to 5 grand, I'd be a lot more forgiving. For 12 grand you get this  You're telling me this speaker can compete with this kind of full range performance? Or this: Salk Soundscape 10  Or this: Legacy Focus XD  Vs this?  I don't know i I'd be that confident! Well Gar it's not always size that matters or the number of speakers. Also room configuration tells a lot with speaker performance. What's is in those speaker cabinets makes a difference. The speakers themselves and crossovers for instance. Certainly the KEF LS 50 is a small speaker with a big voice. I saw that little man perform in a huge room (I'm not talking bedroom) at the NY AUDIO SHOW when it first was introduced in the market power by a 6owatt tube amplifier and the sound filled the room with ease...tight on the bass I might add. Besides how can anyone make a negative judgement call on this speaker without listening to what the manufacturer and designer claims it can do. Not every audiophile or HT enthusiast has a large room. Most people are purchasing a home for their family, not a HT or for 2channel listening. My house is a twin...1200sq feet total. I took my my garage out which left me with a 33' length 18' wide room with 6' 4" ceiling and 7' 2" ceilings. Of course the room was after construction shorter and more narrow after allowing a laundry room and bathroom with some storage. In reality...I will be the first to admit it my 803diamonds are over kill for this room. My logic for purchasing them at the time was the thought that the Mrs and I might move in the near future. If that does not happen I might very well downsize. I certainly would consider the KII Just my opinion, my friend. |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 18, 2017 10:08:47 GMT -5
Thank you KeithL . At least somebody recognizes that these are $11,000 bookshelf speakers! So essentially the price premium looks to be the technology in it. Siegfried Linkwitz knows his stuff and so does Bruno. But...man at $11,000 it's not going to be some amazing surprise that these speakers are going to sound good. They sure as heck better for the price. That's your starting baseline is what I'm saying. For it to be groundbreaking for $11,000 it better do something more than just sound good because there's other speakers in the price range that do. |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Jul 18, 2017 11:27:34 GMT -5
Yes, it's a bit disappointing. I think they're trading on Bruno Putzeys' well-deserved design reputation to charge astronomical prices. There's the same problem with his implementation of his own Hypex NCore NC1200 amplifier, the Mola-Mola Kaluga Monoblock Amplifier which retails out for $16,000/pair. I will say that the Hypex NCore NC400 "kits" for ~$1,500/pair seem pretty reasonable and my friend, whom I gifted the pair I bought for his birthday, loves them. Casey |
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Post by teaman on Jul 18, 2017 11:54:18 GMT -5
I'll bet I could find 100 other pairs of speakers in that range or less. $11k is a lot for small speakers. If you fired up those Tekton 1812's in the same room nobody would hear a thing from those bookshelves. Not knocking the design, it seems like a good idea for a smallish space. Along the lines of the KEF that were mentioned previously. I would gladly take two pair of used Klipschorns and a pair of subs for my room with that much money spent. This isn't even specific to these Kii speakers, just audio equipment in general.
Every month I laugh while reading how highly acclaimed $50k bookshelf speakers can be in Stereophile magazine. Year in and year out they test the same equipment from the same manufacturers....with all the rave and crazed excitement coming out of these spoiled brat rich old men. Last month I got a kick out of the one write up where the contributor of the story went on to rave about how he treated himself to an $11k pair of interconnects. These Ftards are so out of touch with the rest of the world that they can't seem to fight their way out of the sappy bubble they wrap themselves in. When it comes to music and equipment I like what my ears like and on a beer budget I have found several champagne tasting speakers.
Tim
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 18, 2017 12:51:18 GMT -5
It's easy to criticize what we feel are overpriced speakers and other products (I know I sure do, and just shake my head in disgust when I look at a Stereophile magazine). But on the other hand, that's what makes capitalism a good thing. Supply and demand dictates whether products come and go, so if no one buys these overpriced products, they don't get produced anymore. At least we have a wide selection to choose from and the freedom to choose. Much better than if the government declared the Affordable Speaker Act and mandated everyone had to have the exact same speaker. And Bose would make them all.  |
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hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,951
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Post by hemster on Jul 18, 2017 13:25:38 GMT -5
I'll bet I could find 100 other pairs of speakers in that range or less. $11k is a lot for small speakers. If you fired up those Tekton 1812's in the same room nobody would hear a thing from those bookshelves. Not knocking the design, it seems like a good idea for a smallish space. Along the lines of the KEF that were mentioned previously. I would gladly take two pair of used Klipschorns and a pair of subs for my room with that much money spent. This isn't even specific to these Kii speakers, just audio equipment in general. Every month I laugh while reading how highly acclaimed $50k bookshelf speakers can be in Stereophile magazine. Year in and year out they test the same equipment from the same manufacturers....with all the rave and crazed excitement coming out of these spoiled brat rich old men. Last month I got a kick out of the one write up where the contributor of the story went on to rave about how he treated himself to an $11k pair of interconnects. These Ftards are so out of touch with the rest of the world that they can't seem to fight their way out of the sappy bubble they wrap themselves in. When it comes to music and equipment I like what my ears like and on a beer budget I have found several champagne tasting speakers. Tim You think those esoteric manufacturers advertising prolifically in the magazine has anything to do with it? |
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Post by teaman on Jul 18, 2017 13:34:28 GMT -5
I'll bet I could find 100 other pairs of speakers in that range or less. $11k is a lot for small speakers. If you fired up those Tekton 1812's in the same room nobody would hear a thing from those bookshelves. Not knocking the design, it seems like a good idea for a smallish space. Along the lines of the KEF that were mentioned previously. I would gladly take two pair of used Klipschorns and a pair of subs for my room with that much money spent. This isn't even specific to these Kii speakers, just audio equipment in general. Every month I laugh while reading how highly acclaimed $50k bookshelf speakers can be in Stereophile magazine. Year in and year out they test the same equipment from the same manufacturers....with all the rave and crazed excitement coming out of these spoiled brat rich old men. Last month I got a kick out of the one write up where the contributor of the story went on to rave about how he treated himself to an $11k pair of interconnects. These Ftards are so out of touch with the rest of the world that they can't seem to fight their way out of the sappy bubble they wrap themselves in. When it comes to music and equipment I like what my ears like and on a beer budget I have found several champagne tasting speakers. Tim You think those esoteric manufacturers advertising prolifically in the magazine has anything to do with it? No question. Not much different than the Motor Trend, Automobile, etc mags that every year the same writers rant on and on about the same Beemers or Benzes. It seems like everywhere you look people are afraid to say anything that might rock the boat. |
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Post by teaman on Jul 18, 2017 13:37:51 GMT -5
It's easy to criticize what we feel are overpriced speakers and other products (I know I sure do, and just shake my head in disgust when I look at a Stereophile magazine). But on the other hand, that's what makes capitalism a good thing. Supply and demand dictates whether products come and go, so if no one buys these overpriced products, they don't get produced anymore. At least we have a wide selection to choose from and the freedom to choose. Much better than if the government declared the Affordable Speaker Act and mandated everyone had to have the exact same speaker. And Bose would make them all. You make a very good point and I agree with you. I guess I just wish the writers could be subjective and stop playing favorites in their comparisons and such. It gets tiresome that the same products are reviewed by the same writers year in and year out. We that enjoy Emotiva here are sort of on the opposite end of the spectrum. We as loyal consumers tell Emotiva that we like what they are making, and they soon discontinue them......lol! |
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Post by mauriceminor on Jul 18, 2017 13:43:35 GMT -5
Linkwitz Lab designs, and most likely the Kii Three, give the illusion of live music
Other designs I own, or have owned, sound like Hi Fi
Present: Linkwitz LXmini ($1084 w/ amplification) Linkwitz Pluto ($1604 w/ amplification) A/D/S L1290 Pinnacle AC650 Pinnacle PN5+ Polk LSi9 Advent 2002 DIY full range
Previous: Klipsch LaScala Klipsch Heresy A/D/S/ L810 Rectilinear III KLH Model 6 (?) DIY full range |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Jul 18, 2017 13:43:52 GMT -5
... But on the other hand, that's what makes capitalism a good thing. Supply and demand dictates whether products come and go, so if no one buys these overpriced products, they don't get produced anymore. At least we have a wide selection to choose from and the freedom to choose. ... In the 35 years that I've been following the audio business, sensible pragmatism and the Indifference Price Point rarely seem to be operational. There are enough crazy people out there to keep the Audio Snake Oil System fully lubricated ... Casey |
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 18, 2017 14:10:04 GMT -5
It's easy to criticize what we feel are overpriced speakers and other products (I know I sure do, and just shake my head in disgust when I look at a Stereophile magazine). But on the other hand, that's what makes capitalism a good thing. Supply and demand dictates whether products come and go, so if no one buys these overpriced products, they don't get produced anymore. At least we have a wide selection to choose from and the freedom to choose. Much better than if the government declared the Affordable Speaker Act and mandated everyone had to have the exact same speaker. And Bose would make them all. You make a very good point and I agree with you. I guess I just wish the writers could be subjective and stop playing favorites in their comparisons and such. It gets tiresome that the same products are reviewed by the same writers year in and year out. We that enjoy Emotiva here are sort of on the opposite end of the spectrum. We as loyal consumers tell Emotiva that we like what they are making, and they soon discontinue them......lol! So many of those audio reviews are a joke when they rave about thousand dollar cables and stuff like that. And I'm sure it is difficult to criticize the products of a big advertiser, but then that does the readers no favor. You're right about Emo - sometimes they are like Costco. The stuff just disappears from one week to the next! I'm wondering why some of the stuff gets discontinued - like the Airmotiv speakers. |
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Post by teaman on Jul 18, 2017 14:35:34 GMT -5
I believe the AirMotivs are being replaced but I agree, it is puzzling. The audio splitters, the Control Freak, the DC-1, the XDA-2...makes very little sense to me when they spend a bunch of money producing increasingly smaller runs of new product.
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Post by bluemeanies on Jul 20, 2017 14:30:51 GMT -5
I understand people looking at this speaker as an overpriced bookshelf speaker...maybe it is, but until someone on this forum writes a review of the KII from a visual, listening standpoint without prejudice then I myself will keep and open mind.
I believe it's the price point is why I am reading about "snake oil" not the actual performance of the product.
I don't take the reviews as hyperbole on any product until I have see, touched, and heard the results.
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Post by pedrocols on Jul 20, 2017 14:50:06 GMT -5
I understand people looking at this speaker as an overpriced bookshelf speaker...maybe it is, but until someone on this forum writes a review of the KII from a visual, listening standpoint without prejudice then I myself will keep and open mind. I believe it's the price point is why I am reading about "snake oil" not the actual performance of the product. I don't take the reviews as hyperbole on any product until I have see, touched, and heard the results. I personally think Harbeth speakers are grossly overpriced. Some people think the Harbeth P3ESR is a bargain. Mind you this is a bookshelf speakera tha weights like 11 pounds and costs over 2k. Really? Bargain my ass. I hope is ok to say ass. Oops I said it again...đŸ˜€ |
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Post by audiobill on Jul 21, 2017 3:44:28 GMT -5
Folks keep calling this a "bookshelf" speaker. (Does anyone actually put their speakers on bookshelves?)
Anything but, it's a very high grade monitor , placed into the listening space, with controlled (not limited) directivity.
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Post by bluemeanies on Jul 21, 2017 7:02:05 GMT -5
Folks keep calling this s "bookshelf" speaker. Anything but, it's a very high grade monitor with controlldd (not limited) directivity. I would agree....I fell into the trap. When I first seen the KII I seen it as a monitor...so I stand corrected. |
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Post by bitsandbytes on Jul 21, 2017 9:25:06 GMT -5
Folks keep calling this a "bookshelf" speaker. (Does anyone actually put their speakers on bookshelves?)Anything but, it's a very high grade monitor , placed into the listening space, with controlled (not limited) directivity. About the same number of people who use laptops from their laps you suppose?  Does sound like a great monitor to give a listen to. And not needing room treatments? Would love to hear how it performs in comparison to floor standing speakers utilizing absorption and diffusion. Walt |
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Post by mauriceminor on Aug 12, 2017 18:18:54 GMT -5
A review of the Kii Audio Three Loudspeaker is in the September 2017 issue of Stereophile Magazine.
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Post by Axis on Aug 12, 2017 21:12:41 GMT -5
More and more are going active amplified speakers. Emotiva is a amplifier company with great active amplified Monitors. There have been hints in post from Emotiva that things may be in the works for active amplified speakers. Active amplified speakers on the market now are high dollar.
Think about it. We could have a small DAC/Preamp and a pair of full range towers with amplification for each driver and no crossovers for a Emotiva price. These high prices turn me off no matter how good they sound.
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