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Post by jcz06 on Sept 27, 2017 14:10:05 GMT -5
Again... people have been building computers with 1000 watt power supplies for decades. Not sure why this concern would be relevant. I think Nick was joking........with that said, call Emotiva and they may have a deal they can work out with you on roundtrip shipping. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 14:22:41 GMT -5
Again... people have been building computers with 1000 watt power supplies for decades. Not sure why this concern would be relevant. 1000W PC power supplies provide 12V output (and normally that output is distributed over a number of 250W 12V rails rather than one single 1000W rail), which is not considered "hazardous" voltage in consumer electronics. They keep that voltage safely locked away inside the PSU housing and you are never exposed to it. Installing the amp module also isn't quite the same as installing a new graphics card in your PC; there are a few wire harnesses that need to be re-routed depending on what the final configuration of your amp will be, which is different for each amp (so it's best that we work from our parts bin rather than supplying a kit with more parts than what you need). The XPA Gen3 SMPS (which can supply up to 3000W) provides rail voltages in excess of +/-80 volts DC, which IS considered hazardous (per UL 60065) if you touch it. Normally you are excluded from that space by the housing of the amplifier, and we've included strongly worded warnings to keep people from fishing around in there. Think being lit up like a Christmas tree if you get handsy with the PSU while plugged in or within 24 hours after disconnection from the AC line. This can be a problem if you drop a tool or a screwdriver inside, because reaching in to grab it can put you at risk. You might be smarter than the average bear, but we also have to come up with a process that safeguards everyone, not just you, then apply it fairly to everyone. But that's not the most salient reason to let us (or an authorized service center) install the additional modules; the most salient reason is that every amp module gets its bias and DC offset adjusted by our assembly techs, and they aren't pre-set out of the box, because we like to enforce consistency in those critical settings by doing those adjustments here, so China can't just shrug it off if there is variation because we take responsibility for the fine adjustment. If we do it here, we also get the chance to check over your amp and make sure everything else is operating normally. It's that level of attention to detail that separates our USA-built XPA amps from units built by whomever in wherever. |
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Post by pknaz on Sept 27, 2017 14:37:39 GMT -5
I'm not an owner of an XPA Gen3 amp, so all I can do is provide my humble opinion (And we all know what opinions are like)  Having Emotiva reconfirm things like bias and DC offset when installing new modules seems like a pretty fair exchange for the investment in shipping the amp back to Emotiva (not just currency, but also time and effort). I think this applies equally to us as customers as well as Emotiva, from a brand perspective. |
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Post by creimes on Sept 27, 2017 15:20:44 GMT -5
So back to the new amp configurations and away from the topic of one person arguing with the way a company decides to do whats best for them and their customers  like I'm sure they decided it based on pissing off customers compared to going with the best option necessary New configurations seem pretty sweet for adding zone capability or for the ones who are heading to Atmos, the back panel looks really cool as well with all those connections  Chad |
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Post by kybourbon on Sept 27, 2017 15:29:30 GMT -5
Again... people have been building computers with 1000 watt power supplies for decades. Not sure why this concern would be relevant. 1000W PC power supplies provide 12V output (and normally that output is distributed over a number of 250W 12V rails rather than one single 1000W rail), which is not considered "hazardous" voltage in consumer electronics. They keep that voltage safely locked away inside the PSU housing and you are never exposed to it. Installing the amp module also isn't quite the same as installing a new graphics card in your PC; there are a few wire harnesses that need to be re-routed depending on what the final configuration of your amp will be, which is different for each amp (so it's best that we work from our parts bin rather than supplying a kit with more parts than what you need). The XPA Gen3 SMPS (which can supply up to 3000W) provides rail voltages in excess of +/-80 volts DC, which IS considered hazardous (per UL 60065) if you touch it. Normally you are excluded from that space by the housing of the amplifier, and we've included strongly worded warnings to keep people from fishing around in there. Think being lit up like a Christmas tree if you get handsy with the PSU while plugged in or within 24 hours after disconnection from the AC line. This can be a problem if you drop a tool or a screwdriver inside, because reaching in to grab it can put you at risk. You might be smarter than the average bear, but we also have to come up with a process that safeguards everyone, not just you, then apply it fairly to everyone. But that's not the most salient reason to let us (or an authorized service center) install the additional modules; the most salient reason is that every amp module gets its bias and DC offset adjusted by our assembly techs, and they aren't pre-set out of the box, because we like to enforce consistency in those critical settings by doing those adjustments here, so China can't just shrug it off if there is variation because we take responsibility for the fine adjustment. If we do it here, we also get the chance to check over your amp and make sure everything else is operating normally. It's that level of attention to detail that separates our USA-built XPA amps from units built by whomever in wherever. Excellent. This is exactly the information that I was requesting which was no where to be found on the webpage (pardon if I missed it but I looked on the product page and in the forum). I would encourage you to put this somewhere where your customers can find it. I agree that it makes it worth sending the amplifier back to you for this service. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 27, 2017 15:56:49 GMT -5
1000W PC power supplies provide 12V output (and normally that output is distributed over a number of 250W 12V rails rather than one single 1000W rail), which is not considered "hazardous" voltage in consumer electronics. They keep that voltage safely locked away inside the PSU housing and you are never exposed to it. Installing the amp module also isn't quite the same as installing a new graphics card in your PC; there are a few wire harnesses that need to be re-routed depending on what the final configuration of your amp will be, which is different for each amp (so it's best that we work from our parts bin rather than supplying a kit with more parts than what you need). The XPA Gen3 SMPS (which can supply up to 3000W) provides rail voltages in excess of +/-80 volts DC, which IS considered hazardous (per UL 60065) if you touch it. Normally you are excluded from that space by the housing of the amplifier, and we've included strongly worded warnings to keep people from fishing around in there. Think being lit up like a Christmas tree if you get handsy with the PSU while plugged in or within 24 hours after disconnection from the AC line. This can be a problem if you drop a tool or a screwdriver inside, because reaching in to grab it can put you at risk. You might be smarter than the average bear, but we also have to come up with a process that safeguards everyone, not just you, then apply it fairly to everyone. But that's not the most salient reason to let us (or an authorized service center) install the additional modules; the most salient reason is that every amp module gets its bias and DC offset adjusted by our assembly techs, and they aren't pre-set out of the box, because we like to enforce consistency in those critical settings by doing those adjustments here, so China can't just shrug it off if there is variation because we take responsibility for the fine adjustment. If we do it here, we also get the chance to check over your amp and make sure everything else is operating normally. It's that level of attention to detail that separates our USA-built XPA amps from units built by whomever in wherever. Excellent. This is exactly the information that I was requesting which was no where to be found on the webpage (pardon if I missed it but I looked on the product page and in the forum). I would encourage you to put this somewhere where your customers can find it. I agree that it makes it worth sending the amplifier back to you for this service. While my vote does not count - my vote is...let people do it PROVIDED they provide videos of them doing it. Watching some % get lit up like a Christmas Tree? Totally worth it... (I AM KIDDING ABOUT THAT LAST PART!!!!) Mark |
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Post by Jessica on Sept 27, 2017 16:41:43 GMT -5
I have no issues with Emotiva wanting to do the installs in house, but shipping these heavy amps back and forth is costly. I assume they would be shipped for full replacement value as UPS has been known to damage them in transit. I'm sure everyone knows, but there are numerous DIY solid state as well as tube, amp modules, pre-amp kits, etc. for sale out there. Plus if an individual can buy a circuit breaker panel at Home Depot as well as replacement switches, outlets, romex, etc., I don't think it's any different than buying an amplifier module and performing the installation at home. Those that want to tinker or feel they have the expertise, would do so and others would not mind sending it back to the manufacture. I could be wrong, but I think a concern / issue here is down time as well as shipment damage. That being said, I totally understand Emotiva's reluctance to allow the end user to perform these upgrades... it's a tough decision for sure. Hi everyone, our amplifier upgrades for the stereo modules work the same way we've been upgrading Gen 3 amps since we began offering that option. We don't charge any fees for the installation, it's $200 a module, just like the price per module formula if you were to buy the amplifier new and a $50 flat rate shipping fee that covers both directions of shipping the amp in for service, which is a subsidized rate. I can't speak to all of the technical aspects as to why this is a requirement, our engineers can do a better job explaining it, but there are technical reasons as well as safety and quality assurance factors in this decision. We've created a program that doesn't require a lot of downtime or cost for an upgrade. While it's in we do a full tune up and run tests to boot. I know we covered this at great lengths when we first introduced the Gen 3 amplifier line. If you're familiar with our thinking, we allow for upgrades by customers where it makes sense - like HDMI boards and try to make it as painless as possible both logistically and financially to send in units for upgrades when that's necessary. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 27, 2017 19:10:52 GMT -5
Hi everyone, our amplifier upgrades for the stereo modules work the same way we've been upgrading Gen 3 amps since we began offering that option. We don't charge any fees for the installation, it's $200 a module, just like the price per module formula if you were to buy the amplifier new and a $50 flat rate shipping fee that covers both directions of shipping the amp in for service, which is a subsidized rate Does that apply to Australia too Jessica?  No, not Sydney to Franklin, Sydney to Melbourne where your distributors are based? Cheers Gary |
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 28, 2017 0:22:12 GMT -5
I'm just not sure why this is being considered new news, or surprising to anyone on this forum, except perhaps for totally new people. This is all water under the bridge stuff from a long while back, and has been discussed many times over. It's just finally becoming available on "Emotiva time." 😁
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Post by TempTag on Sept 28, 2017 2:08:43 GMT -5
I am enthusiastic about this product. It’s especially nice to see a product that is high quality yet beats the competition on value. The only 11 channel amps I can think of in the home theater space are Yamaha and Marantz and this amp is both cheaper and seems to be more powerful and offer higher build quality. Even the Niles multi-room digital amp I use today to drive surrounds was more expensive than this new 11 channel Emotiva.
Three questions if anyone knows:
I looked online but was not able to find the power per channel with all channels driven spec for the 11 channel - can anyone share a link?
Second question, any reason why the stereo modules still have only one blue led in the front? (I sort of expected to see 9 or 11 LEDs). I guess the idea is to show the module/blade is functioning irrespective of channels it contains?
Can we expect a 14 channel model in the future?
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Post by DYohn on Sept 28, 2017 9:07:38 GMT -5
Shipping an Emotiva amplifier using Fed Ex Ground will cost the average person $70-75, so the subsidized rate is a deal.
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Post by creimes on Sept 28, 2017 9:15:19 GMT -5
Can we expect a 14 channel model in the future? I think Jessica mentioned there will soon be a way to customize the amp with whichever modules you want, so I'm assuming that means being able to have one built with seven 2ch modules. Chad |
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Post by jcz06 on Sept 28, 2017 9:43:20 GMT -5
I am enthusiastic about this product. It’s especially nice to see a product that is high quality yet beats the competition on value. The only 11 channel amps I can think of in the home theater space are Yamaha and Marantz and this amp is both cheaper and seems to be more powerful and offer higher build quality. Even the Niles multi-room digital amp I use today to drive surrounds was more expensive than this new 11 channel Emotiva. Three questions if anyone knows: I looked online but was not able to find the power per channel with all channels driven spec for the 11 channel - can anyone share a link? Second question, any reason why the stereo modules still have only one blue led in the front? (I sort of expected to see 9 or 11 LEDs). I guess the idea is to show the module/blade is functioning irrespective of channels it contains? Can we expect a 14 channel model in the future?yep......7 stereo blades...... |
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Post by rbk123 on Sept 28, 2017 12:53:05 GMT -5
a $50 flat rate shipping fee that covers both directions of shipping the amp in for service, which is a subsidized rate. This is pretty smokin'. No pun intended. |
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 28, 2017 19:02:40 GMT -5
I'm on my phone right now so I can't go find the thread link, but to everyone here who seems surprised, there are like 30-35 (somewhere in that ball park) variations on how to set up and buy this amp. I haven't checked their site, but once its all available, if I were Emotiva I'd make a check box for each and every option to slow confusion. Put em up and price em. Take a website guy one day and put an end to questions. Not sure why they wouldn't do it that way.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The coolest feature of these Gen 3 amps isn't being able to send them back for upgrades or changes, its being able to order them in so many customizable configurations from the get go.
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Post by hdkeith on Sept 28, 2017 19:02:56 GMT -5
So by that rationale I shouldn't be able to build PC either then, correct? I think you are missing the point.....from Emotiva's standpoint it's a risk they want to mitigate by doing the work in house and ensuring the install is done to their specifications...... Versus the risk of UPS or FedEx man handling it both way? |
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 28, 2017 19:07:04 GMT -5
Can we expect a 14 channel model in the future? I think Jessica mentioned there will soon be a way to customize the amp with whichever modules you want, so I'm assuming that means being able to have one built with seven 2ch modules. Chad No assuming needed. Its one of the over 30 options. 👍 14 x 75 watts each. |
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Post by jcz06 on Sept 28, 2017 19:27:15 GMT -5
I think you are missing the point.....from Emotiva's standpoint it's a risk they want to mitigate by doing the work in house and ensuring the install is done to their specifications...... Versus the risk of UPS or FedEx man handling it both way? No, actually doing the install part not the transport part since they require you ship back in OE packaging......look at Rory's explanation, he hits the nail on the head.... |
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Post by leonski on Oct 9, 2017 2:08:26 GMT -5
In working with dangerous and very high voltages, exceeding 20,000volts, we practiced 'lock out / tag out' procedures. You physically locked the breaker OFF and KEPT THE KEY so nobody could energize the circuit.
At least until YOU said it was OK to energize.
Other equipment had Interlocks such that when a cover was removed a microswitch removed power from that circuit. Implanters had the very nasty stuff in an insulated room. When the OUTSIDE doors opened, a grounding
rod descended and grounded the outside of the inner, high voltage area. You than had to attach the 'Chicken Stick' which was a copper hook connected to 25' of copper braid TO the inside (just hook it anywhere) cabinet to provide
a 2nd level of protection. The inner doors were ALSO protected with microswitch interlocks. ALL grounding of that nature was checked annually for good contact to ground.
The only accident I ever saw in an implanter we DID OURSELVES when using a meter with a high voltage probe that somehow made a path to ground. We had all the safeties defeated and when we pressed 'go' the meter vanished in
a flash of light.
One guy working on a 480v transformer the size of an end table dropped his 1/2" wrench ACROSS the output terminals and it vaporized. The Wrench, not the transformer. Other accidents involved fairly high voltages, like the 10,000 volts of a
evaporator. LUCKILY I never witnessed 'the really big accident' or caused one. But Ya GOTTA pay attention. One machine had a 'Death Is Final' label on several key places where you really could end it all in a big flash.
Unless you KNOW what you are doing, just send the darn thing back.
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like I'm sure they decided it based on pissing off customers compared to going with the best option necessary 
