Emotiva ATMOS Speakers

[goozoo]

Oct 11, 2017 8:45:33 GMT -5 @roryb said:

Weighing in:

I'm personally of the opinion that the best way to add Atmos channels is to use in-ceiling speakers, configured for the broadest possible dispersion. Use direct-incidence speakers, not the angled-incidence type, and sit off-axis. We are currently looking at an in-ceiling offering featuring the Airmotiv folded ribbon tweeters. The problem with surface-mounted or hanging solutions for Atmos channels is just as people have said, low ceiling heights make them impractical, and low-hanging speakers also work against creating a diffuse soundfield in the height channels, so you tend to hear the locations of the speakers more than the location of the sound. So for now, in residential applications, in-ceiling solutions are the 'gold standard'.

We probably will not be making our custom 4-way angled mount for the E1 speakers available as a product, because that was created to provide high output from Atmos channels in a large ballroom (AXPONA), and we re-used them at Emofest, but they are impractical for most home environments. However, you can achieve something very similar in your own room by using L-brackets and mounting them into the ends or sides of an E1 speaker, then using them to mount the speaker to your ceiling, facing downward so you are sitting off-axis (to minimize localization). As long as you don't drill directly into drivers, crossover, port tubes, or internal wiring (and don't complain to us to try to fix/replace the speaker because of work you did) your warranty on other parts of the speaker won't be affected by a few small screw holes. Just use extreme care to mount the speaker into studs or use appropriate load-bearing anchors, and select the proper hardware. Plan to provide 1/2" behind the speaker for wiring. Keep in mind that being hit by a falling speaker will cause injury if someone is under it, and that can ruin your evening, so use the appropriate care. If you have access to the attic space, you can install a backing board made from plywood or OSB to support the weight of the E1, which is not excessive.

Thanks for 'weighing in' Rory.  It was my hope that someone more in the know would respond and give us some insight into what Emotiva was thinking.  Perhaps a good solution from Emo for an in-ceiling install would be speakers with backer boxes included to mitigate the negative effects of an IB design.  

[klinemj]

Oct 11, 2017 10:49:59 GMT -5 Casey Leedom said:

I see two fundamentally different implementation scenarios for Atmos Height Speakers:

• New work: Ceiling exposed, wires can be run along/through rafters, etc. before drywall is hung.
• Old work: You're screwed. Either you rip everything up or you come up with some hack or really ugly solution.

For the record, I'm definitely in the "old work" camp ... and I rent ...

So, a slight disagreement here...on the "old work", one is not "screwed" if they are handy with fishing wire and doing minor patchwork in drywall (or if one has a dropped ceiling).

As for renting...yeah, you are basically screwed!!! LOL!

Mark

[klinemj]

Solid advice from @roryb! Of course, I would expect no less from a graduate of one of the finest schools in the land...Purdue University.

Mark (PS - did I mention I am also a Purdue grad?)

[Casey Leedom]

I certainly have contemplated it Mark (klinemj). I've thought about it to the point where I've wondered which way the ceiling rafters run in the room and how I could somehow drill through the wall header and the firebreaks ... and then I got tired and I sat down till the feeling went away ... :-)

Casey

[klinemj]

Oct 11, 2017 16:24:49 GMT -5 Casey Leedom said:

I certainly have contemplated it Mark (klinemj). I've thought about it to the point where I've wondered which way the ceiling rafters run in the room and how I could somehow drill through the wall header and the firebreaks ... and then I got tired and I sat down till the feeling went away ... :-)

Casey

Yeah, sometimes that is best. (especially if renting...)

Mark

[pknaz]

Harmon did some interesting research a while back that showed as the number of speakers in a room playing sound increased, our ability to discern subtle differences (think timbre matching) decreased. And according to the research (overseen by Floyd Toole) this effect was not small.
youtu.be/zrpUDuUtxPM?t=457

I also wonder how room correction (such as Dirac) would further degrade our ability to distinguish subtle differences between speakers in a sound effect scenario.

According to Dolby spec, the best Atmos speakers are in ceiling with uniform dispersion

[simpleman68]

Oct 11, 2017 16:22:52 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Solid advice from @roryb ! Of course, I would expect no less from a graduate of one of the finest schools in the land...Purdue University.

Mark (PS - did I mention I am also a Purdue grad?)

We love Purdue as well! Just last night we had some of their chick.... oh wait.

[moovtune]

I'm not of the opinion that in-ceiling speakers are necessary for good Atmos immersive sound. Especially if you consider that Dolby allows the variation of putting speakers on top of your front towers and bouncing the sound off the ceiling as acceptable for Atmos. That's because from the sweet spot position, by the time the sound reaches your ears, it will have a similar sound to having come down to the sweet spot from a ceiling speaker position ahead of your seated spot. I don't think that works as well as in-ceiling would but for me what does work as well is front (and rear) height speakers mounted on the wall as high as possible and pointing straight ahead (not angled down). From the sweet spot (especially when you consider there is sound coming from 7.1 other directions as well in a 7.1.4 setup) the sound will be basically the same in my opinion. These pictures only show a 5.1 basic setup, but the pix is just to show the relation of the speaker location for each example as related to the sweet spot.

[jlafrenz]

I voted NO because the speakers they were using aren't practical for a home. They were setup this way using a custom made bracket so that ATMOS could be demoed. Emotiva doesn't currently have a speaker that is ideal for ATMOS so this was made more out of necessity than anything. The speakers used are actual Emotiva speakers. If someone wanted this they would probably be better off making and selling the bracket, but I think that market is limited for what it would potentially cost.

[leftycrusher9]

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Something similar (and less expensive) to these Martin Logan Vanquish speakers. Would be sweet utilizing their ribbon tweeter.

[leftycrusher9]

I remember back at emofest Big Dan had mentioned ceiling speakers were in the works but no time frame.

[pknaz]

They had ceiling speakers a while back, i got three sets of their in-wall speakers (wish now I would have gotten a couple sets of their ceiling speakers too). Oh well, for Atmos, these $70 Dayton's will work just fine

[mgbpuff]

I have 6 Emotiva UAC-8.2 ceiling speakers. Always wondered why Emotiva dropped them just when Atmos came on the scene.

[leftycrusher9]

I have 6 of the 8.2s myself still in the box. Just waiting on getting the remainder of my equipment in so I can get the rest of the speakers installed.

[leftycrusher9]

Was gonna get some ceiling speakers from monoprice but once Dan said the ceiling speakers were in the works with possible angled drivers I am patiently waiting for what they come up with. I can live with 7.2 until then