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Post by leonski on Oct 14, 2017 18:03:05 GMT -5
Zero Driver failures with 2kw of amp? You are clearly not trying hard enough.
But seriously, given a speakers efficiency (not sensitivity) running around 2%, give or take, the REST is heat. I guarantee that if you reached inside your
speaker and grabbed the voice coil, you'd get a nasty, hot surprise.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 9, 2019 22:04:06 GMT -5
I’ve added some new measurements to the first post, including the RMC-1, PA-1, DC-1, XPA-7 G2, XPA-7 G3
If you have measurements we don’t have, and have a way to measure them (preferably a Kill-a-Watt meter), please post it here and I’ll add it to the first post. We should have several of the newer XPA G3 and an XMC-2 available to measure.
If you’re not interested in this information, please ignore this thread.
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Post by novisnick on Sept 9, 2019 23:10:12 GMT -5
I enjoyed most of this thread, thanks AudioHTIT 👍 |
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Post by hsamwel on Sept 10, 2019 10:54:42 GMT -5
Hi All, I had taken some of these idle power draw measurements for a previous post somewhere here: Emotiva XPA-5: 70.1 W Emotiva UMC-1: 28.8 W Emotiva XMC-1: 35.0 W Emotiva Ultra Sub 12: 9.2 W OPPO BDP-95: 30.4 W C Thanks Cory, I’m suspicious of the UMC-1, I remember an idle over 100W, maybe even over 200. It was very high for a processor, and it ran very hot. I even remember when the XMC-1 came out thinking that 35W was more like it should be. I didn’t measure though and sold my UMC a few years ago. Do you still have one you could measure again? 100-200W for a processor??? How would that even be possible? There’s nothing that would need anywhere close to those numbers.. Not even in full usage it should be near 100W unless something is really badly designed IMO. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 7, 2024 9:36:26 GMT -5
First post updated with Marantz AV10 data. If there are other new processor, amp, or source device measurements you have, post them here and I’ll update the first page. This thread focuses on ‘idle power’, that is, how much power the device draws when just sitting doing nothing; both on and standby states are of interest. If you haven’t done it before, the first post also describes how to take your measurements.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 11, 2024 12:39:07 GMT -5
I get nothing in return from idle power…… Why should I write about it? You shouldn’t, as mentioned above, this thread’s not for you. |
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Post by PaulBe on Aug 12, 2024 8:15:18 GMT -5
With 14.5Kw of solar generating capacity on my roof I could not care less about standby or idle power consumption. But even if I was sucking 'trons from a coal plant down the street I would not care, and I still really and honestly do not understand why anyone else does either. But whatever floats your boat. It is interesting that this thread has been out there for over seven years and I’m still at a loss to find this idle power spec. Posted for my own amp without measuring. I would’ve thought by now it would be out there for informational purposes. Were it such a meaningful specification, It would be out there without having to measure it for yourself. That being said, it is as you say, whatever floats your boat so to speak, but I also failed to understand what the interest is.For myself amplifier power has always been about what it can deliver underload and how good Of a match it is for the particular loudspeaker being driven. I see there are some followers who have taken an interest in it so that’s perfectly fine of courseThis subject/thread has held your interest since the first day of the thread. Idle power is important because it is most of the consumed power. If you don't care, that's perfectly fine of course. My amps are listed here. I use much less idle power than I used 2 years ago. Old amps were Class D with SMPS. New amps are Class AB with SMPS. Go figure... Sound is better too, with more even undistorted power delivery into a real load. No fans - No noise. It's a win-win-win. Old amps did have built-in DSP for speaker processing. New amps are just amps, so I use outboard DSP for speaker processing, This requires power for the outboard DSP. Overall amp idle power consumption is still considerably lower for new setup at 47%(.467) of old setup. HT setup is 7.2.2 - same system as before. Bottom line - I now have twice the power efficiency - post RMC-1L processor - and I get better undistorted sound. All this going back to Class AB amps vs pro Class D amps. Idle consumption when playing 2 channel stereo is 56 watts for 4 amp channels and including outboard 3x6 DSP speaker processor. The amps run cooler at normal listening levels. This includes one channel of DSP idle power - at 6 watts - that is unused for 2 channel stereo and cannot be powered down since the speaker processor DSP's are each 3x6. This thread is more than a curiosity to me, and is less than something to criticize. |
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Post by PaulBe on Aug 12, 2024 9:53:42 GMT -5
“This subject/thread has held your interest since the first day of the thread” No I don’t think so…… View AttachmentI think so: Oct 12, 2017 emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/911688/threadYou have more posts in this thread than anyone else, including the OP. I can 'see' a lot just by observing. I don't need a seeing stone. Staying with the theme of the thread... Again: Idle power is important because it is most of the consumed power. If you don't care, that's perfectly fine of course. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Aug 12, 2024 11:15:30 GMT -5
As a broad generalization...
The EU has a requirement for limiting the power consumed in "standby mode" - meaning "full low power standby".
(I believe that it is currently 1 watt but will soon be slightly lower.)
(And most products designed to be sold in both the USA and the EU now comply with this.)
-From 2025, devices must not consume more than 0.5 Watts in standby or in off mode, or 0.8 Watt if they are on
standby while displaying their status or information.
-Also from 2025, devices in networked standby must not consume more than 2 to 8 Watts, depending on the type
of product
-From 2027, devices must not consume more than 0.5 Watts in standby, 0.3 Watts in off mode, or 0.8 Watts if they
are on standby while displaying their status or information.
-Also from 2027, for devices in networked standby, the upper limit of 8 Watts will be reduced to 7 Watts, depending
on the type of product
This does NOT apply to "high power standby" which is really just "ON" for most units - including our processors...
And so can vary considerably...
NOTE that there is a difference between "idle" and "standby"...
When a device is in "Standby" it is assumed to essentially be off...
With the only parts still running being the section "that remains awake to listen for an ON command".
Note that many modern devices like TVs don't actually have an OFF option any more...
So this is their lowest power consumption.
When an amplifier is in "Idle" mode it is actually ON but not passing an audio signal...
This means that, for a Class A/B amplifier, the driver stages remain on...
And both the drivers and output stage continue to consume things like bias current...
(The unit "remains on and warmed up".)
With MOST Class-D amplifiers the power consumption in this mode is very low...
(They MAY have an actual Standby mode or they MAY just consume very little idle power.)
With Class A/B amplifiers the power consumed in this mode varies widely between models...
(Abd Class A amplifiers consume around the same power in this mode as when running at full power.)
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Post by PaulBe on Aug 12, 2024 13:39:23 GMT -5
“I think so” maybe I just like to underscore how disinterested I am lol…… Anyway, why do you care? When you say something that is untrue, especially when you say it directly to me, I'm going to underscore your untruthfulness. When you are in a hole, stop digging. Staying with the theme of the thread... Again: Idle power is important because it is most of the consumed power. If you don't care, that's perfectly fine of course.
BTW - You attributed your response to me... |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 12, 2024 15:09:08 GMT -5
As a broad generalization... The EU has a requirement for limiting the power consumed in "standby mode" - meaning "full low power standby". (I believe that it is currently 1 watt but will soon be slightly lower.) (And most products designed to be sold in both the USA and the EU now comply with this.) From our discussion in the other thread about 4K & 8K TVs, I found some interesting related information. First the general consensus is that 8K TVs consume about double what a similar 4K TV consumes, though some put the number lower at about 50% more, either way significant. Related to the EU, they already had a power limit for all TVs (90W?), and the initial thoughts were that you wouldn’t be able to buy an 8K TV in the EU due to their higher consumption. But the ever clever manufactures found that by shipping their 8K TVs in ‘4K mode’ (for lack of a better term), they could meet the EU requirements, and there was nothing stopping an owner from switching 8K on after they setup the TV. As a broad generalization... When an amplifier is in "Idle" mode it is actually ON but not passing an audio signal... This means that, for a Class A/B amplifier, the driver stages remain on... And both the drivers and output stage continue to consume things like bias current... (The unit "remains on and warmed up".) With MOST Class-D amplifiers the power consumption in this mode is very low... (They MAY have an actual Standby mode or they MAY just consume very little idle power.) With Class A/B amplifiers the power consumed in this mode varies widely between models... (Abd Class A amplifiers consume around the same power in this mode as when running at full power.) I’ve owned and measured quite a few amps over the years, and most recently several Class D. Indeed they are generally the lowest when compared to their rated output, but even they vary quite a bit, a good example being the Hypex and Pascal based amps I listed in the first post (the B&O modules in the PA-1 are also very low). |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 12, 2024 15:12:47 GMT -5
maybe I just like to underscore how disinterested I am lol…… Anyway, why do you care?As the OP of any thread, one hopes to share information, gain information, make a reference post, or just elicit related discussion. As the OP of this tread, I set the tone to be specifically about measured values for Idle Power, as it is of interest to me, and is part of my decision making process when buying anything that consumes electricity. There are at least a few other people who find this information of interest, and who have participated by measuring their gear and posting the results. I understand many have no interest in this tread (and seem to think it's related to cost), just as I may not be interested in exotic speaker wire, couch shakers, or Allison speakers -- but I will try not post in those threads, or show disdain for the topic; there are plenty of things I am interested in, and want to learn more about (or share what I do know). I have tried to ignore off topic posts, but early on some of the more respected members in the Lounge went out of their way to come here and post that they weren't interested in this topic, maybe that encouraged others. Who does that? If you go to dinner at someone's house and don't like the food, do you spend the whole evening talking about how much you don't like it, and ruin everyone else's evening too? Probably not, because most of us have learned manners and etiquette. Internet etiquette allows the OP to set the tone for conversation within a thread, and redirect it when it goes astray. I have politely asked several times, for those who are " disinterested" to just ignore this thread -- I have just asked again. If it continues I'll ask the mods to remove the comments. So ... I care! |
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Post by geebo on Aug 12, 2024 15:33:03 GMT -5
FTR, I like the thread.
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Post by PaulBe on Aug 12, 2024 15:41:00 GMT -5
When you say something that is untrue, especially when you say it directly to me, I'm going to underscore your untruthfulness. When you are in a hole, stop digging. Staying with the theme of the thread... Again: Idle power is important because it is most of the consumed power. If you don't care, that's perfectly fine of course.
BTW - You attributed your response to me...With all due respect, you need to go back and re read this thread Another long time respected forum member responded with his observations Regarding this topic and I responded to him. This of course, is a natural occurrence when a subject is put out here for discussion. Perfectly normal and acceptable no one here is intentionally trying to derail the topic. |
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