DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 13, 2017 10:52:58 GMT -5
Awesome review, monkumonku - Thanks for taking the time! If I didn't use the digital EQ in my player software, I'd be tempted. Cordially - Boomzilla Digital EQ means losing bits. Analog EQ is far superior. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 13, 2017 10:54:50 GMT -5
Does Schiit pay royalties to Stand Lee Cheers Gary Why? Unless you think Stan Lee created the name Loki.  |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 13, 2017 15:20:34 GMT -5
Does Schiit pay royalties to Stand Lee Why? Unless you think Stan Lee created the name Loki. Just mentioning that it must be a total co incidence that Schiit are adopting names that have been around for centuries and not used much, especially in naming products. Names that were made popular by Stan's vision, in comics 50+ years ago and more recently in high profile movies etc. Merry Xmas to all Gary |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 13, 2017 17:26:22 GMT -5
In general a DAC is intended to convert digital audio into analog audio - without otherwise changing it. If a DAC makes your music sound different then it isn't a very good DAC. An equalizer, or a tone control, is the exact opposite..... it is designed to change the sound. The main trick with designing an equalizer is hitting the right compromise between making it useful and making it easy to use. A multi-band parametric equalizer is very useful, and very powerful, but very difficult to use effectively (and can easily create a complete mess if you don't know how to use it correctly). Simple bass and treble controls are very easy to use, but rarely do exactly what you want. By all reports, with the Loki, they've found a compromise that works well for a lot of people. I see you are a SCHIIT guy😂. Interesting write up. I had the Soundcraftman equalizer and as you pointed out it was not consumer friendly. At the moment I like what I am hearing from my system which I consider real and lifelike but as you mentioned for $149.00 I can see your interest in the Loki. I wonder what are the platform differences between a DAC and the LOKI. At least from the standpoint of achieving a better sound. Equal parts or just a different route. Remember that test record that came with the Soundcraftsman? Listen to the record and adjust the knobs until all the pink noise sounded equal in all the bands. I always had a smiley face with the levers when done. Personally, I think the Loki makes a way bigger difference than any DAC could. The differences between any quality DAC shouldn't be very much but you can make a significant difference in the sound using the Loki. I think lots of recordings would sound fine as they are but it is nice just being able to do some tweaking if needed. For example, the David Crosby Sky Trails album is recorded well, but I found that turning up the 8Khz knob a bit brought out the ride cymbals and made them sound more realistic and in front. It added some luster to the sound. And what a difference the Loki made to that train wreck of an engineering job on Simple Dreams (Linda Ronstadt). |
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Post by mgbpuff on Dec 13, 2017 17:32:13 GMT -5
Next Schiit will probably make a reverberater for the same 'lost in the 70's" crowd. Yey, I just got the Schiit Schaaks!
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guitarforlife
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Just another busy day in Northern Wisconsin.
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Post by guitarforlife on Dec 13, 2017 18:02:03 GMT -5
Next Schiit will probably make a reverberater for the same 'lost in the 70's" crowd. Yey, I just got the Schiit Schaaks! Why would I need that I still have a Pioneer and a Sansui unit that still work.  |
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Post by mgbpuff on Dec 13, 2017 19:04:39 GMT -5
Next Schiit will probably make a reverberater for the same 'lost in the 70's" crowd. Yey, I just got the Schiit Schaaks! Why would I need that I still have a Pioneer and a Sansui unit that still work. Why am I not surprised? |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 13, 2017 21:23:06 GMT -5
Digital EQ means losing bits. Analog EQ is far superior. Hi DYohn - Whose analog equalizers do you like? Thanks - Boom |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 13, 2017 21:40:13 GMT -5
Next Schiit will probably make a reverberater for the same 'lost in the 70's" crowd. Yey, I just got the Schiit Schaaks! Man, I've got to get my eyes checked ... My first reading of that was "Vibrator" ... Or maybe my head's just in a different '70s space ... :-) Casey |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 14, 2017 10:01:11 GMT -5
Digital EQ means losing bits. Analog EQ is far superior. Hi DYohn - Whose analog equalizers do you like? Thanks - Boom I've used two studio-quality pro EQs in my setup. The first is a parametric (that is still in the setup) a Golden Age EQ 73. This thing is super clean and adds a bit of warmth to the tone, and is perfect for targeting the worst room modes and eliminating them. At least it worked for me. The only problem is it's mono, meaning you need one for each channel, and that makes it a little expensive. Plus it needs a special adapter cable for I/O. The other solution that I tried for a while and really liked was a graphic made by Rane (my favorite pro audio effects company.) It was a dual 30-band graphic called I believe the ME-60. It worked really well and did not add anything to the tone. Very neutral. I sold it to a friend who is still using it as far as I know. Ther4e are many options. But try analog if you can since digital EQ works by reducing the bits in the signal. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 14, 2017 12:10:48 GMT -5
Hmmmmm..... But analog EQ means adding noise and distortion...... Awesome review, monkumonku - Thanks for taking the time! If I didn't use the digital EQ in my player software, I'd be tempted. Cordially - Boomzilla Digital EQ means losing bits. Analog EQ is far superior. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 14, 2017 12:22:58 GMT -5
Hmmmmm..... But analog EQ means adding noise and distortion...... Digital EQ means losing bits. Analog EQ is far superior. It can, yes. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 14, 2017 12:54:03 GMT -5
I would take slight exception to your phrase "reducing the bits". No modern editing software would risk loss of resolution by, for example, lowering the level while keeping the bit depth the same. A well designed digital equalizer should increase the bit depth of the sample before processing.... which will prevent rounding and scaling errors due to the bit-depth limit. All modern editing software does this, usually upscaling to "32 bit float" or "64 bit float" for processing, then converting back afterwards. I would expect a stand-alone digital equalizer to do likewise (although, if we're starting with an analog signal, I might prefer to avoid the two extra conversion steps). Hi DYohn - Whose analog equalizers do you like? Thanks - Boom I've used two studio-quality pro EQs in my setup. The first is a parametric (that is still in the setup) a Golden Age EQ 73. This thing is super clean and adds a bit of warmth to the tone, and is perfect for targeting the worst room modes and eliminating them. At least it worked for me. The only problem is it's mono, meaning you need one for each channel, and that makes it a little expensive. Plus it needs a special adapter cable for I/O. The other solution that I tried for a while and really liked was a graphic made by Rane (my favorite pro audio effects company.) It was a dual 30-band graphic called I believe the ME-60. It worked really well and did not add anything to the tone. Very neutral. I sold it to a friend who is still using it as far as I know. Ther4e are many options. But try analog if you can since digital EQ works by reducing the bits in the signal. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 14, 2017 13:22:52 GMT -5
Most available software-based digital EQ does not do this. It is an algorithm that cuts by reducing the bit depth, adding noise.
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Post by LuisV on Dec 14, 2017 14:15:15 GMT -5
DYohn besides the Schiit headphone gear, have you tried or listened to their amps? The vidar seems interesting...
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 14, 2017 15:31:20 GMT -5
DYohn besides the Schiit headphone gear, have you tried or listened to their amps? The vidar seems interesting... I have not heard the Vidar. It looks like a nice product. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 17, 2017 15:50:04 GMT -5
Thanks DYohn and KeithLI can't speak to whether the jRiver software truncates the bit-length when doing digital equalization, but I can say that the sound is audibly cleaner when the digital processing suite is NOT in use. The difference is small, but audible (to me). That said, I decided for the small cost involved, to try the Rane ME-60S 30-band stereo equalizer. The Rane may (or may not) have both unbalanced and balanced inputs / outputs (implied by the XLR connectors, but probably NOT truly fully differential). I'll try equalizing my room in the analog domain and see what it sounds like. The equalizer, being used and "fully-depreciated," won't lose me much if I'm not happy with it. Low risk - potentially high benefit. We'll see... Now the next question that arises (not to hijack the thread) is "exactly where in the audio chain should the equalizer sit?" The most logical setup would seem to me to be: Oppo UDP-205 (used as a streaming DAC) to Yamaha A-S2000 integrated amp (used as a preamp / volume control) to Rane ME-60S stereo equalizer to Crown crossover to Both subwoofer and power amps / speakers This way, volume control for both the sub & satellites moves in tandem from the preamp's volume control. I can also equalize both the low and high pass sections of the frequency spectrum from the same device. And finally, the crossover is the last device prior to amplification. Is there a better way to wire this setup? Thanks - Boom |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 17, 2017 17:03:58 GMT -5
EQ should be between preamp and amp. Rane professional gear is fully balanced.
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Post by novisnick on Dec 17, 2017 21:32:17 GMT -5
Hmmmmm..... But analog EQ means adding noise and distortion...... Digital EQ means losing bits. Analog EQ is far superior. Is this the same noise and distortion that tubes add? Honest question here, not being sarcastic,,,,,,,,,for a change. |
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Post by LuisV on Dec 17, 2017 22:12:40 GMT -5
DYohn besides the Schiit headphone gear, have you tried or listened to their amps? The vidar seems interesting... I have not heard the Vidar. It looks like a nice product. Thanks DYohn. I just might have to get a small 2 channel system for my office.  |
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