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Post by jra on Dec 5, 2017 0:50:10 GMT -5
So I just got the first of a pair of XPA-1's (damn UPS and their Christmas rush, the other one should arrive tomorrow :-). I got it set up and in class-A mode, but I only have 5mm vertical space above it with a wood shelf above. Is this enough clearance to keep it cool ? I noticed after 30 mins listening to it it was quite hot (even the faceplace). Should I remove it from the display unit and leave have it by the side instead ? What are the symptoms if it does overheat ?
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 5, 2017 1:06:56 GMT -5
50 mm
Cheers
Gary
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Post by novisnick on Dec 5, 2017 1:44:11 GMT -5
So I just got the first of a pair of XPA-1's (damn UPS and their Christmas rush, the other one should arrive tomorrow :-). I got it set up and in class-A mode, but I only have 5mm vertical space above it with a wood shelf above. Is this enough clearance to keep it cool ? I noticed after 30 mins listening to it it was quite hot (even the faceplace). Should I remove it from the display unit and leave have it by the side instead ? What are the symptoms if it does overheat ? 🔥 This could happen if you don’t adhere to Gary Cook advice! 🔥 |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 5, 2017 4:46:45 GMT -5
As much as possible.
If you don't listen loudly or for long hours at a time, then a minimum of 2 inches, but with ventilation on all sides (open rack - not a closed one).
If you do listen loudly or for long hours at a time, then a minimum of 3 to 4 inches, with the same open rack - not a closed one.
If you must use a closed rack, consider power ventilation, and use a thermometer to monitor in-rack temperatures (with a high-temp alarm). At what temperature should you set the alarm? Ask Emotiva Customer Support.
Note: All above suggestions assume that you're driving speakers with 4 ohm or higher impedances. Anything below 4 ohms of impedance - (even for brief dips) - means double the ventilation distances.
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Post by audiobill on Dec 5, 2017 5:46:10 GMT -5
IMO, at least 6 inches.
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Post by jra on Dec 5, 2017 11:40:00 GMT -5
Yeah I took it out of the display unit and put it on the wood floor behind the speaker. Doesn't look as nice and still seems to get hot, but not as hot as before :-). Thanks all for your help !
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Post by garbulky on Dec 5, 2017 11:43:36 GMT -5
Yeah I took it out of the display unit and put it on the wood floor behind the speaker. Doesn't look as nice and still seems to get hot, but not as hot as before :-). Thanks all for your help ! It's supposed to get very hot in class A no matter what. However you definitely want ventilation with it. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 5, 2017 14:16:57 GMT -5
I actually did some testing when the XPA-5 first arrived, many years ago, in my rack which is open on all 4 sides, with all 5 channels driven at higher than listening level volumes. I tried the next laminated timber shelf up at 10 mm 25 mm, 50 mm, 75 mm, 100 mm and 200 mm using a pyrometer, with the probe on the centre heat sink. At any distance 50 mm or above the temperature was consistent, it didn't run any cooler at 200 mm than it did at 50 mm.
I have found sound quality advantages in having the monoblocks (2 X XPA-1L's) located very close to their respective speaker ie; long XLR balanced interconnects with short speaker cables. The shelves that they are on aren't adjustable and the next glass shelf up is a bit more than 50 mm, around 65 mm, so no concerns there even with only 3 sides open (each speaker is quite close on the 4th side).
Cheers
Gary
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Post by novisnick on Dec 5, 2017 14:21:45 GMT -5
I actually did some testing when the XPA-5 first arrived, many years ago, in my rack which is open on all 4 sides, with all 5 channels driven at higher than listening level volumes. I tried the next laminated timber shelf up at 10 mm 25 mm, 50 mm, 75 mm, 100 mm and 200 mm using a pyrometer, with the probe on the centre heat sink. At any distance 50 mm or above the temperature was consistent, it didn't run any cooler at 200 mm than it did at 50 mm. I have found sound quality advantages in having the monoblocks (2 X XPA-1L's) located very close to their respective speaker ie; long XLR balanced interconnects with short speaker cables. The shelves that they are on aren't adjustable and the next glass shelf up is a bit more than 50 mm, around 65 mm, so no concerns there even with only 3 sides open (each speaker is quite close on the 4th side). Cheers Gary I completely agree with your second paragraph but, there is absolutely no comparison of heat dispersion between an XPA-5 and a XPA-1. Especially if the XPA-1 is to be run at all in Classe A. My XPA-5 runs extremely cool, even under heavy load for the donation, unlike the Emotiva Monoblocks/ Heaters. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 5, 2017 14:31:49 GMT -5
I actually did some testing when the XPA-5 first arrived, many years ago, in my rack which is open on all 4 sides, with all 5 channels driven at higher than listening level volumes. I tried the next laminated timber shelf up at 10 mm 25 mm, 50 mm, 75 mm, 100 mm and 200 mm using a pyrometer, with the probe on the centre heat sink. At any distance 50 mm or above the temperature was consistent, it didn't run any cooler at 200 mm than it did at 50 mm. I have found sound quality advantages in having the monoblocks (2 X XPA-1L's) located very close to their respective speaker ie; long XLR balanced interconnects with short speaker cables. The shelves that they are on aren't adjustable and the next glass shelf up is a bit more than 50 mm, around 65 mm, so no concerns there even with only 3 sides open (each speaker is quite close on the 4th side). I completely agree with your second paragraph but, there is absolutely no comparison of heat dispersion between an XPA-5 and a XPA-1. Especially if the XPA-1 is to be run at all in Classe A. My XPA-5 runs extremely cool, even under heavy load for the donation, unlike the Emotiva Monoblocks/ Heaters. When I first got the XPA-1L's they had no shelf above them and they don't run any hotter now with the shelf in place. My view is the higher the temperature differential, between the heat sink and the ambient temperature, the more convection there is (more air moving faster). It's like an automatic fan that speeds up as the temperature rises. Cheers Gary |
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Post by novisnick on Dec 5, 2017 15:00:08 GMT -5
I completely agree with your second paragraph but, there is absolutely no comparison of heat dispersion between an XPA-5 and a XPA-1. Especially if the XPA-1 is to be run at all in Classe A. My XPA-5 runs extremely cool, even under heavy load for the donation, unlike the Emotiva Monoblocks/ Heaters. When I first got the XPA-1L's they had no shelf above them and they don't run any hotter now with the shelf in place. My view is the higher the temperature differential, between the heat sink and the ambient temperature, the more convection there is (more air moving faster). It's like an automatic fan that speeds up as the temperature rises. Cheers Gary I too own a set of XPA-1Ls and in classe A without headroom or a fan you can cook breakfast on top of them! Ham & eggs, sausage & 🥞 pancakes,,,,whatever you like. This is my experience, I’ve spen some time with XPA-1s in Classe A and my XPRs cook the room if you let them! |
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Post by leonski on Dec 5, 2017 16:15:40 GMT -5
Set 'em where they are NOT stacked and get the MOST air.
Caps in PS are probably 105c rated which is a maximum limit. I don't know that higher temp limit caps are made.
There is NO REASON to torture your new amps by the slow cook of death.
Heat destroys electonics. Especially 'A' amps which AT IDLE use a lot of power, ALL of which is HEAT.
Exclusive Class 'A' amps might go 2lb to 3lb PER WATT, most of which is heat sink and transformer.
I know I don't even have to ask, since I already know you have a dedicated 20 amp service for these amps and fairly low sensitivity speakers for which a case could be made for having such huge power reserves.
Any 'clearance' number quoted for ABOVE such an amp should be assumed as on a clear, open rack with NO obstructions to any side. NEVER place on carpet.
Your heating bill in WINTER may be eased with these amps, while in Summer, you are in for a real air Conditioning bill. Climate depending, of course.
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 5, 2017 16:35:38 GMT -5
When I first got the XPA-1L's they had no shelf above them and they don't run any hotter now with the shelf in place. My view is the higher the temperature differential, between the heat sink and the ambient temperature, the more convection there is (more air moving faster). It's like an automatic fan that speeds up as the temperature rises. I too own a set of XPA-1Ls and in classe A without headroom or a fan you can cook breakfast on top of them! Ham & eggs, sausage & 🥞 pancakes,,,,whatever you like. This is my experience, I’ve spen some time with XPA-1s in Classe A and my XPRs cook the room if you let them! They get hot nick, especially running in Class A. But they don't get any hotter with a shelf ~65 mm above them. Cheers Gary |
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Post by novisnick on Dec 5, 2017 17:21:09 GMT -5
I too own a set of XPA-1Ls and in classe A without headroom or a fan you can cook breakfast on top of them! Ham & eggs, sausage & 🥞 pancakes,,,,whatever you like. This is my experience, I’ve spen some time with XPA-1s in Classe A and my XPRs cook the room if you let them! They get hot nick, especially running in Class A. But they don't get any hotter with a shelf ~65 mm above them. Cheers Gary OK my friend! 10 mm shouldn’t make that big a difference, I prefer to error on the more space side. 😋 How would you like your steak? 🎼🎼🎼🎼 I’m cooking if you ever make it to EmoSouth. |
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Post by garbulky on Dec 5, 2017 17:29:03 GMT -5
The 1L and the XPA-1 are different in terms of heat output.
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Post by leonski on Dec 5, 2017 18:54:04 GMT -5
Anyone have an IDLE power measurement for these amps? With no output, and idling @100 watts or WhatEver, that is ALL heat.
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 6, 2017 0:24:41 GMT -5
The 1L and the XPA-1 are different in terms of heat output. And the heat sinks in the XPA-1's are about 4 times the size ie, the watts to heat sink ratio is about the same. Cheers Gary |
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Post by leonski on Dec 6, 2017 1:45:11 GMT -5
Gary, Sort of depends on BIAS. EMO has never made a pure class 'A' amp, but rather High Bias types, which 'slide' toward A/B as levels rise. Any way you slice it, the amount of heat generated can be quite large. Any restriction can cause decreased amp reliability. As for WHERE do you measure temp? Only place that makes sense is RIGHT ON the heat sink. Or use what I've got. A FLIR camera which will allow close estimates of real temp, once you get some data points. Attached photo is of my A23 Parasound under normal conditions. Not being 'pressed' even a little. Attachments:
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Post by qdtjni on Dec 6, 2017 2:10:38 GMT -5
Anyone have an IDLE power measurement for these amps? With no output, and idling @100 watts or WhatEver, that is ALL heat. For my XPA-1 G2s; Idle power consumption in Class A/B mode: 75W each Idle power consumption in Class A mode: 310W each once warmed up. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 6, 2017 15:03:29 GMT -5
Gary, Sort of depends on BIAS. EMO has never made a pure class 'A' amp, but rather High Bias types, which 'slide' toward A/B as levels rise. Any way you slice it, the amount of heat generated can be quite large. Any restriction can cause decreased amp reliability. As for WHERE do you measure temp? Only place that makes sense is RIGHT ON the heat sink. Or use what I've got. A FLIR camera which will allow close estimates of real temp, once you get some data points. Attached photo is of my A23 Parasound under normal conditions. Not being 'pressed' even a little. Based on my many measurements over many years if an amplifier overheats in a rack open on all 4 sides, with a shelf ~50 mm above it then it will still overheat with no shelf above it, sitting on the floor. Basically there is a limit as to how much convection cooling is affected and a shelf over 50 mm away has no effect that I can measure. In a rack with less sides open it may well be different, but all of my racks over the years have had 4 sides open, so that's what I have measured. Cheers Gary |
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