Magnetic laser level?

[Boomzilla]

My speakers have a steel grill frame, and the front baffles are tilted back. Due to the tilt, it's hard to tell whether the tweeters are pointed at the right height for the listener's ears or not.

I'd like to find a compact laser with a magnet on the back. That would allow me to stick the laser on the speaker grill frame at tweeter height and to see exactly where the tweeter points at the listening position. I may need to tilt the entire speaker slightly fore or aft to achieve the correct "on axis" height.

Due to the fact that this is a two-way speaker, the lobing effect at the crossover point makes it critical that the height be correct for the crossover region to sound right (aka as the designer intended).

There are two theories as to why the treble isn't sounding very open right now -

Either the speakers are insufficiently tilted back (I'm a tall listener, and need somewhat more height than average) since the speakers are short -

OR

The speakers are tilted sufficiently for a smaller room, but in my larger one, the tilt is excessive (in other words, the tweeters are "aimed" too high for the listening position).

I could tape a standard laser pointer at more or less right angles to the front baffle plate, on the side of the speaker, but even a minor error in angle would make the effort worthless. In other words, the laser pointer would need to be mounted at exactly 90-degrees to the plane of the front baffle. Not a job for "eyeing it..."

OTOH, even a rough estimate would tell me "too high" or "too low." This alone could be helpful in adjusting the speaker tilt so that the final adjustments could be done "by ear."

So I'm open to suggestions. If you know of a suitable laser pointer with a magnet on the back, I'm interested. Otherwise, good for other suggestions.

Thanks kindly - Boomzilla

PS: The front baffle of these speakers is gradually curved towards the sides. There is not an abrupt "edge." Otherwise, I could use a carpenters 90 to get the angle I needed on the side.

[mfeust]

I say sit down and enjoy the music.

Mark

[Soup]

2nd that! Just sit back and enjoy!

[audiobill]

Glue a magnet on your level?

[petew]

Grab a cheap steel shelf bracket and stick it to the grill with loose rare earth magnets, then velcro a laser pointer to the shelf bracket.

It might need some sledge hammer and vice-grip calibration but should be accurate enough.

[Boomzilla]

OK, youse guys - Most speakers wouldn't care, BUT...

The speakers I'm using are two way, and they use first-order crossovers (six decibels per octave). With such a large overlap frequency range between woofer and tweeter, the crossover frequencies are highly dependent on having the elevation right. These speakers not only should, but MUST be in proper vertical alignment with the listener's ears or the speaker just won't sound right. Fact! Sit significantly below or above the tweeter axis, and you'll get serious lobes in the sound pattern (think antenna or microphone interference that turns an omnidirectional pattern into a "figure eight").

So the vertical elevation of the speaker relative to the listening position is more critical (FAR more) than with most speakers that use steeper crossover slopes. The laser pointer isn't a silly obsessive thing, but actually a necessity for these speakers in larger rooms. That said, it begs the question of why the manufacturer didn't provide one, but they didn't.

I think that I'll tape a regular laser pointer on the side of the speaker, eyeballing it for the right angle to the baffle, and then see what I get. If I'm in the ballpark, then no worries. If I'm significantly high or low, I can adjust the feet until I get close.

I'd hoped to simplify with a cheap magnetic pointer, but the ones I've seen have magnets at right angles to the laser, not in line.

Thanks anyway - Boom

[simpleman68]

I use my DeWalt that is not magnetic ( no typical application for construction ) but is easily aligned on an X or Y axis by holding it to the face of my speaker.

It's probably accurate to less than 1" at a 14' throw.
Scott

[Casey Leedom]

Or get speakers which aren’t so “fussy” about ear height. :-)

Casey

[405x5]

Jan 7, 2018 10:52:21 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

OK, youse guys - Most speakers wouldn't care, BUT...

The speakers I'm using are two way, and they use first-order crossovers (six decibels per octave). With such a large overlap frequency range between woofer and tweeter, the crossover frequencies are highly dependent on having the elevation right. These speakers not only should, but MUST be in proper vertical alignment with the listener's ears or the speaker just won't sound right. Fact! Sit significantly below or above the tweeter axis, and you'll get serious lobes in the sound pattern (think antenna or microphone interference that turns an omnidirectional pattern into a "figure eight").

So the vertical elevation of the speaker relative to the listening position is more critical (FAR more) than with most speakers that use steeper crossover slopes. The laser pointer isn't a silly obsessive thing, but actually a necessity for these speakers in larger rooms. That said, it begs the question of why the manufacturer didn't provide one, but they didn't.

I think that I'll tape a regular laser pointer on the side of the speaker, eyeballing it for the right angle to the baffle, and then see what I get. If I'm in the ballpark, then no worries. If I'm significantly high or low, I can adjust the feet until I get close.

I'd hoped to simplify with a cheap magnetic pointer, but the ones I've seen have magnets at right angles to the laser, not in line.

Thanks anyway - Boom

The laser pointer trick is easy, quick and FREE most people have one laying around someplace and finally have a use for it.
The only challenge might be shimming the cabs. To get them resting where you want.

Bill

[foggy1956]

Jan 7, 2018 10:52:21 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

OK, youse guys - Most speakers wouldn't care, BUT...

The speakers I'm using are two way, and they use first-order crossovers (six decibels per octave). With such a large overlap frequency range between woofer and tweeter, the crossover frequencies are highly dependent on having the elevation right. These speakers not only should, but MUST be in proper vertical alignment with the listener's ears or the speaker just won't sound right. Fact! Sit significantly below or above the tweeter axis, and you'll get serious lobes in the sound pattern (think antenna or microphone interference that turns an omnidirectional pattern into a "figure eight").

So the vertical elevation of the speaker relative to the listening position is more critical (FAR more) than with most speakers that use steeper crossover slopes. The laser pointer isn't a silly obsessive thing, but actually a necessity for these speakers in larger rooms. That said, it begs the question of why the manufacturer didn't provide one, but they didn't.

I think that I'll tape a regular laser pointer on the side of the speaker, eyeballing it for the right angle to the baffle, and then see what I get. If I'm in the ballpark, then no worries. If I'm significantly high or low, I can adjust the feet until I get close.

I'd hoped to simplify with a cheap magnetic pointer, but the ones I've seen have magnets at right angles to the laser, not in line.

Thanks anyway - Boom

Wouldn't a nice pair of pendragons cure this problem?😎

[405x5]

That would be one hell of a laser pointer 😉

[Gary Cook]

I have a spirit level app on my phone, so what I would do is to rest the phone against the tweeter, that will tell you the angle of the tweeter. Then I'd do the same with the top of the speaker cabinet. I assume that there is a difference between the two angles? If so then I'd use some spacers to get the phone at the same angle on the top as the tweeter. Then place the laser pointer on the spacers, point it at the listening position and then measure down the distance between the laser pointer on top of the cabinet (inc spacers) to the tweeter. That should give you the exact height of where your ears should be.

That actually took longer to type than it would to do.

Cheers
Gary

[Boomzilla]

Jan 7, 2018 14:51:12 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

I have a spirit level app on my phone, so what I would do is to rest the phone against the tweeter, that will tell you the angle of the tweeter. Then I'd do the same with the top of the speaker cabinet. I assume that there is a difference between the two angles? If so then I'd use some spacers to get the phone at the same angle on the top as the tweeter. Then place the laser pointer on the spacers, point it at the listening position and then measure down the distance between the laser pointer on top of the cabinet (inc spacers) to the tweeter. That should give you the exact height of where your ears should be.

That actually took longer to type than it would to do.

Cheers
Gary

That’s an excellent idea, Gary! A little applied geometry and all is well with no additional purchase required. I really appreciate the help!

[gus4emo]

Jan 7, 2018 5:46:55 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

My speakers have a steel grill frame, and the front baffles are tilted back. Due to the tilt, it's hard to tell whether the tweeters are pointed at the right height for the listener's ears or not.

I'd like to find a compact laser with a magnet on the back. That would allow me to stick the laser on the speaker grill frame at tweeter height and to see exactly where the tweeter points at the listening position. I may need to tilt the entire speaker slightly fore or aft to achieve the correct "on axis" height.

Due to the fact that this is a two-way speaker, the lobing effect at the crossover point makes it critical that the height be correct for the crossover region to sound right (aka as the designer intended).

There are two theories as to why the treble isn't sounding very open right now -

Either the speakers are insufficiently tilted back (I'm a tall listener, and need somewhat more height than average) since the speakers are short -

OR

The speakers are tilted sufficiently for a smaller room, but in my larger one, the tilt is excessive (in other words, the tweeters are "aimed" too high for the listening position).

I could tape a standard laser pointer at more or less right angles to the front baffle plate, on the side of the speaker, but even a minor error in angle would make the effort worthless. In other words, the laser pointer would need to be mounted at exactly 90-degrees to the plane of the front baffle. Not a job for "eyeing it..."

OTOH, even a rough estimate would tell me "too high" or "too low." This alone could be helpful in adjusting the speaker tilt so that the final adjustments could be done "by ear."

So I'm open to suggestions. If you know of a suitable laser pointer with a magnet on the back, I'm interested. Otherwise, good for other suggestions.

Thanks kindly - Boomzilla

PS: The front baffle of these speakers is gradually curved towards the sides. There is not an abrupt "edge." Otherwise, I could use a carpenters 90 to get the angle I needed on the side.

How about to sit on a higher chair, lol.....

[simpleman68]

Jan 7, 2018 16:53:56 GMT -5 gus4emo said:

Jan 7, 2018 5:46:55 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

My speakers have a steel grill frame, and the front baffles are tilted back. Due to the tilt, it's hard to tell whether the tweeters are pointed at the right height for the listener's ears or not.

How about to sit on a higher chair, lol.....

Always doin' things the hard way. It's WAY easier to just cut the bottom of the speaker to just the correct height to maximize that sweet spot.
Scott

[monkumonku]

Why don't you just use a shim under the speakers or the stand to adjust the tilt and then use your ears to tell you what sounds best?

Even if you precisely calibrate the angle so that it is perfect according to how the speaker is "supposed" to be, using the finest state of the art technologically superior no finer way in the universe platinum level measuring device, that doesn't mean it will necessarily sound the best to you.

If people adjust toe-in by moving the speaker slightly until it sounds right, why not do the same when adjusting the tilt? Let your ears be your judge.

[novisnick]

Jan 7, 2018 17:19:50 GMT -5 monkumonku said:

Why don't you just use a shim under the speakers or the stand to adjust the tilt and then use your ears to tell you what sounds best?

Even if you precisely calibrate the angle so that it is perfect according to how the speaker is "supposed" to be, using the finest state of the art technologically superior no finer way in the universe platinum level measuring device, that doesn't mean it will necessarily sound the best to you.

If people adjust toe-in by moving the speaker slightly until it sounds right, why not do the same when adjusting the tilt? Let your ears be your judge.

Very good suggestion IMO. Just yesterday I shimmed the rear feet of my towers so the tweeters would point more towards my ears. So far there is better sound IMHO.

[Boomzilla]

"By ear" is fine. But if I'm writing equipment reviews, I owe it to the manufacturers to not have the rest of the system "about right," but measurably so. I'd hate to write that an amp, for example, didn't sound so good if it was the speaker tilt that was causing the problem. Laser-alignment is more accurate. But I'll verify it by not only the calibrated UMIK microphone, but also by listening.

It's true that neither I (nor few other people, apparently) prefer the "flat" frequency response that comes by default with the automated equalizing machines (DIRAC, Audyssey, YPAO, etc.). But once you have a measured frequency response curve (with the actual speakers, in the actual room and from the actual listening position), then you can customize the EQ to what you think sounds best - but you'll also KNOW what you thought sounded best for consistency.

I still think that I, personally, could do fine without the measurements. But I also think that it's important to know what the room, itself, is consistently doing to the sound. The only way to evaluate that is to measure.

There - I said it. The "measuring wonks" can jump on now with the "I told you so's." So the average listener could (and probably should) get by without ever measuring anything. But since I feel obligated to take it to the next level, the UMIK is my friend.

[RichGuy]

Buy a cheap laser measure pointer

I have this one from Amazon $24
link

No magnet but you can either glue a magnet to to it or set it on a tripod (or something) at listening position ear level and point it toward speaker. This will also give you good accurate distance measurements as well.

[Gary Cook]

Jan 7, 2018 16:45:01 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Jan 7, 2018 14:51:12 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

I have a spirit level app on my phone, so what I would do is to rest the phone against the tweeter, that will tell you the angle of the tweeter. Then I'd do the same with the top of the speaker cabinet. I assume that there is a difference between the two angles? If so then I'd use some spacers to get the phone at the same angle on the top as the tweeter. Then place the laser pointer on the spacers, point it at the listening position and then measure down the distance between the laser pointer on top of the cabinet (inc spacers) to the tweeter. That should give you the exact height of where your ears should be.

That actually took longer to type than it would to do.

That’s an excellent idea, Gary! A little applied geometry and all is well with no additional purchase required. I really appreciate the help!

A spirit level app in a phone is very useful, from hanging pictures to checking camber on race cars

Cheers
Gary