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Post by pedrocols on Feb 6, 2018 13:40:55 GMT -5
I don't think Emotiva owes me or anybody here an explanation unless you are losing money over this which obviously I am not and potentially nobody here is either.
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Post by audiobill on Feb 6, 2018 14:27:58 GMT -5
The DC-1 is being replaced.......
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Post by broncsrule21 on Feb 6, 2018 15:41:45 GMT -5
Mine sounds awesome paired with my Mac Mini. Got it on sale....worth every dime. Could care less about what the geeks say.
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Post by socketman on Feb 6, 2018 15:56:25 GMT -5
I would like to see the insides of a second production model for reference. How do any of us know for sure other than the one person who tore it down. Still more questions than answers. The upgrade company comes to mind how they are the best and everything else is second rate yet they make no products?
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Post by DavidR on Feb 6, 2018 17:45:44 GMT -5
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 6, 2018 18:22:20 GMT -5
Interesting that real pictures from sellers in different marketplaces show both types of connectors. Some with two and some with three prongs 🤔
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 6, 2018 19:05:13 GMT -5
I don't know that any rebuttal is really needed for this. The measurements look great. The person writing about it may just like complaining. I have far more questions about the test setup than the DC-1 performance.
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Post by socketman on Feb 6, 2018 21:01:37 GMT -5
One good point about a three prong plug is you dont have to get on your hands and knee's to see which hole in the wall take the wide blade, ease of access if you will.
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Emo shill acc no.62
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Post by Emo shill acc no.62 on Feb 6, 2018 23:01:58 GMT -5
First of all this was a 'USED' unit. Perhaps it had been worked on. Perhaps the bad soldering was the result of a repair. Class II equipment does not have to have a dedicated ground. The so called pinching of a wire is not a pinching at all, just a well insulated wire touching a non conductive edge of a PC board (come on people!). Cheap caps, well most DACs of this caliber of performance cost many times more - it's nice to be critical if you ignore costs. I would question Arim's credentials given the uninformed opinions he expresses.
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 7, 2018 8:47:02 GMT -5
First of all this was a 'USED' unit. Perhaps it had been worked on. Perhaps the bad soldering was the result of a repair. Class II equipment does not have to have a dedicated ground. The so called pinching of a wire is not a pinching at all, just a well insulated wire touching a non conductive edge of a PC board (come on people!). Cheap caps, well most DACs of this caliber of performance cost many times more - it's nice to be critical if you ignore costs. I would question Arim's credentials given the uninformed opinions he expresses. I'm not an Emo Shill if that is what you are implying. The review is unprofesssional, uninformed, and accuses Emotiva of unsafe practices which is patently not true. Your post serves no purpose, are you "Armin'? If so take a refresher course in basic electronics, third party insurers, and perhaps the NEC. |
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Post by rbk123 on Feb 7, 2018 9:54:39 GMT -5
The DC-1 has been out for a LONG time now. Is anyone aware of any issues with it that remotely could be connected to these 3 points? I know I'm not and I read this bored (sp) daily.
No idea if that's how DC-1's look new or if that used one was modded but let's assume it wasn't, how old is it and has it ever had a problem pertaining to those 3? Are any other units having problems? The answer for the first question is definitely a "no" otherwise I guarantee that would have been in the article. For the 2nd question, point me to any posts or threads identifying any DC-1 problems, let alone ones that could be linked to the 3 items mentioned.
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Post by adaboy on Feb 7, 2018 9:58:30 GMT -5
Hmm, some of the questions here are answered in the comment section of the article. Amir stated that the ac wires ARE physically touching the bottom of the case (metal). The hand soldering job looks as bad in the stock photos as it did on the tear down.
I agree it should have been a new unit, but if used and not altered then it doesn't matter.
Oh and the power wires seem to have plenty of room in the stock photo, not sure why the production board is so much bigger? I couldn't imagine someone putting a bigger replacement in there?
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Emo shill acc no.29
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Post by Emo shill acc no.29 on Feb 7, 2018 10:17:40 GMT -5
Hold on the AC wire slightly touching the board? That's not an issue. Come on. I really don't see the issues. The performance even on those tests were pretty fantastic. Cheap caps? Well does it sound bad or does it sound amazing? Then who the heck cares? "Overly glued?" Eh? So?
I've heard very expensive DACs - one that cost a few grand. Some of the DACs I've heard did some things a bit better than the DC-1. But when you take the entire sound in to account, I decided I still hadn't heard anything I preferred over the DC-1 and nor something I would upgrade over it. WHenever I switched back, I remained happy with my DC-1 which really does produce some excellent sound - especially in a fully balanced setup.
Not saying that there's not better. But for a $500 DAC that's pretty darn spiffy.
I didn't carefulyl read it but one thing of interest is that the channel tracking at low volumes may not be as precise as claimed. I thought the resistor ladder was supposed to be within 0.5 db of each other in channel matching.
How about some real issues that actually affect the sound quality?
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Post by rbk123 on Feb 7, 2018 10:20:57 GMT -5
Hold on the AC wire slightly touching the board? That's not an issue. Come on. I really don't see the issues. The performance even on those tests were pretty fantastic. Cheap caps? Well does it sound bad or does it sound amazing? Then who the heck cares? "Overly glued?" Eh? So? I've heard very expensive DACs - one that cost a few grand. Some of the DACs I've heard did some things a bit better than the DC-1. But when you take the entire sound in to account, I decided I still hadn't heard anything I preferred over the DC-1 and nor something I would upgrade over it. WHenever I switched back, I remained happy with my DC-1 which really does produce some excellent sound - especially in a fully balanced setup. Not saying that there's not better. But for a $500 DAC that's pretty darn spiffy. I didn't carefulyl read it but one thing of interest is that the channel tracking at low volumes may not be as precise as claimed. I thought the resistor ladder was supposed to be within 0.5 db of each other in channel matching. How about some real issues that actually affect the sound quality? Yawn. |
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Post by adaboy on Feb 7, 2018 10:22:11 GMT -5
Hold on the AC wire slightly touching the board? That's not an issue. Come on. I really don't see the issues. The performance even on those tests were pretty fantastic. Cheap caps? Well does it sound bad or does it sound amazing? Then who the heck cares? "Overly glued?" Eh? So? I've heard very expensive DACs - one that cost a few grand. Some of the DACs I've heard did some things a bit better than the DC-1. But when you take the entire sound in to account, I decided I still hadn't heard anything I preferred over the DC-1 and nor something I would upgrade over it. WHenever I switched back, I remained happy with my DC-1 which really does produce some excellent sound - especially in a fully balanced setup. Not saying that there's not better. But for a $500 DAC that's pretty darn spiffy. I didn't carefulyl read it but one thing of interest is that the channel tracking at low volumes may not be as precise as claimed. I thought the resistor ladder was supposed to be within 0.5 db of each other in channel matching. How about some real issues that actually affect the sound quality? Was this a copy and paste post? If so why? |
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Post by adaboy on Feb 7, 2018 10:27:42 GMT -5
One good point about a three prong plug is you dont have to get on your hands and knee's to see which hole in the wall take the wide blade, ease of access if you will. This can be the butt of many dirty jokes lol! |
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 7, 2018 11:11:57 GMT -5
Wires are insulated so they can touch sh** and not cause a problem. Power wire, regardless of gauge is rated 600v for low voltage use. Look at commercial installations; wire is pulled through metal conduit (it touches metal). It is designed to do so. Soldering when done manually is seldom pretty. The important thing is that it is shiny (indicative of proper heating and cooling) and that it grips the surface (a slight tug can verify). Also questioned was the insulators on the output connectors saying they were too small and installed correctly. What? The picture shows an insulator well larger than the connector and there is no evidence that it was not intalled correctly and as large as the insulator is, I can see no way that it could ever touch the metal case. Another criticism was that a washer type solder tab should have been used. A solder tab depends on compression for a good connection - that can loosen with time and temperature cycles so maybe the direct solder is best(if not the prettiest) after all. However to say that the DC1 is an unsafe design is technically incorrect and irresponsible. I am not a shill for Emotiva, but I am a graduate electrical engineer with 41 years of engineering field employment.
As far as the insulator on the top of the toroid goes - What you want to avoid is a _closed_ loop of conducting material that goes thru the inside of the toroid, and is closed outside. Why? Because then you create a (single turn) winding on your transformer that is shortened. Low voltage, high current - just what you need for melting (or welding) something. And, without this forbidden closed loop, just from sticking your mounting bolt from the lower lid thru the toroid, you should still be able to measure a voltage between the upper end of the bolt and the top lid of your enclosure. Why? Because it's still a (single turn) winding - gladly not shortened, but left open.
This is perfectly ok, of course. Just treat it as the thing it is: An open secondary winding as long as you insulate the end of the bolt.
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Post by rbk123 on Feb 7, 2018 11:16:47 GMT -5
One good point about a three prong plug is you dont have to get on your hands and knee's to see which hole in the wall take the wide blade, ease of access if you will. True, but I would wager in this case it is to reduce the number of different cords (and chassis receptacles) for different products. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 7, 2018 11:44:58 GMT -5
Interesting..... I guess.
I'm not going to address each nit in detail.....
Because, well, the DC-1 is a product that's been around for a few years, and its performance, sound quality, and reliability speak for themselves.
I guess we could have used fancier parts in a few places, but they wouldn't make the DC-1 perform any better, or sound better, in any significant way... and they would raise the price significantly.
(I also agree that some of the hand soldering in the DC-1 is less than attractive... however, it seems to do the job just fine, and sometimes fine jewelry costs more than functionality.)
Incidentally, the IEC receptacle in current units is a two-pin one.
I'm also sort of surprised he's comparing the DC-1 to a Topping DAC, which has a SABRE DAC chip in it, and he didn't notice that they SOUND different.
(I haven't heard the Topping one, but every other Sabre DAC I've ever heard has had a rather distinctive sound to it.... and not one I'm especially fond of.)
Incidentally, at the time the DC-1 went into production, it was pretty much the only DAC that offered a real analog input, and as ASRC to reduce jitter, below the $1000 price point....
(Obviously, these features may or may not matter to individual users.)
I should also note that J-Test does NOT measure the ability of the ASRC to remove jitter from the incoming signal... because it does NOT apply a signal with a known amount of jitter to the input.
(More accurately, it tests the susceptibility of the entire unit to certain tricky input signals that commonly cause jitter... but it fails to differentiate between experiencing jitter, causing jitter, and removing jitter.)
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Post by socketman on Feb 7, 2018 14:30:15 GMT -5
One good point about a three prong plug is you dont have to get on your hands and knee's to see which hole in the wall take the wide blade, ease of access if you will. This can be the butt of many dirty jokes lol! Been down there too, too many holes too close together iMHO |
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