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Post by 405x5 on Mar 19, 2018 8:21:03 GMT -5
The opinions on what RCA interconnects to use here could fill this server. The simple fact is any properly shielded RCA cable is going to work. Any of the exotic scheme ones mentioned here not so much necessarily. I have been selling audio for many years and could get any cable I wanted and did. Did it perform any different? Nope. Whether in my project studio or audio gear in my other room RCA and XLR balanced interconnects never beyond cables you can get from anywhere. Monoprice, Hosa, Amazon Basics, Blue Jean cable etc. work just fine. Anything exotic is just spending more money than you need too. Emotiva has some cables on clearance if they aren't all gone yet, and they work great too. So if you want to make the connection, spend wisely, and on known science, not on promises the exotic manufacturers might make and cannot possibly deliver. As always, your mileage may vary. What he said. Bill |
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Post by leonski on Mar 19, 2018 12:57:18 GMT -5
I just wonder (out loud) about 'properly shielded' RCA cables (Single Ended)
The cable is a 'hot' and usually the other to ground. A 3rd wire IN the cable? Where do you connect that? to ground AGAIN? But maybe only at ONE side? That would mean your cables need to be both directional AND so marked.
TRUE and fully balanced gear would appear to have an 'edge' in this regard.
As for the rest of what 405 said? Some cables DO make a difference and not always for the better. Very high capacitance (a measurable) for example, can act as a high cut filter. That sort of thing.
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Post by geeqner on Mar 19, 2018 14:23:41 GMT -5
I'll agree about the Neutrik Connectors - Again QUALITY, Solid stuff without any claimed "snake-oil extras". Their connectors have quality components and are usually easy to solder / work with. I have used / specified quite a bit of Neutrik connectors - mostly for custom-built rack panels and Demo Units that we have built where I work. (Cheapos often have plastic insulators that melt when you try to solder the pins and then the pins shift-around.) Switchcraft also has some good stuff
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Post by mrloren on Mar 19, 2018 19:23:32 GMT -5
I just had a daa moment, I will give the R/B/G component RCA cables a try on my BasX-A300. Gee wow.
Thanks for all the replies.
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 20, 2018 2:26:36 GMT -5
I recently tested every RCA cable in my box. I found one with a 31 ohm impedance! Average for cheap Chinese cables off eBay (Canare) was 0.20 ohms on the shield and 0.23 ohms on the hot wire. This is in line with my expectations for soldered joints. But the Canare connectors were more consistent than the other brands. The lowest resistances I found were with "Straightwire" connects (0.02 ohms for my pair - 1/10 the resistance of the others). But I'm not going to pay the (high) price for Straightwires. For my $$, the inexpensive eBay brands are not only sufficient, but actually superior to many or even most of the boutique brands.
Can you hear any difference in interconnects? I can, but only with two brands. And you shouldn't be trying to tune a system's sound with interconnects anyway. And the two brands (for those interested) were Kimber Kable (tended to smooth out the treble - maybe high capacitance?) and Nordost (tended to make the treble bright & edgy). I avoid both now.
I was profoundly disappointed to find out that BlueJeans cable does NOT weld their interconnects (as they do their speaker cable's connectors). Without a welded connector, I consider the BJ cables to be no better than the eBay Canares (at a fraction of the BJ prices). The BJ cables also have a rigid and extended RCA plug that can interfere with some equipment racks. So although Blue Jeans interconnects are as well made as anything else, they aren't superior enough in any way to justify their cost. I'll no longer recommend BlueJeans interconnects. Other options provide equivalent construction for far less money.
YMMV
Cordially - Boomzilla
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Post by dsonyay on Mar 20, 2018 7:01:56 GMT -5
I recently tested every RCA cable in my box. I found one with a 31 ohm impedance! Average for cheap Chinese cables off eBay (Canare) was 0.20 ohms on the shield and 0.23 ohms on the hot wire. This is in line with my expectations for soldered joints. But the Canare connectors were more consistent than the other brands. The lowest resistances I found were with "Straightwire" connects (0.02 ohms for my pair - 1/10 the resistance of the others). But I'm not going to pay the (high) price for Straightwires. For my $$, the inexpensive eBay brands are not only sufficient, but actually superior to many or even most of the boutique brands. Can you hear any difference in interconnects? I can, but only with two brands. And you shouldn't be trying to tune a system's sound with interconnects anyway. And the two brands (for those interested) were Kimber Kable (tended to smooth out the treble - maybe high capacitance?) and Nordost (tended to make the treble bright & edgy). I avoid both now. I was profoundly disappointed to find out that BlueJeans cable does NOT weld their interconnects (as they do their speaker cable's connectors). Without a welded connector, I consider the BJ cables to be no better than the eBay Canares (at a fraction of the BJ prices). The BJ cables also have a rigid and extended RCA plug that can interfere with some equipment racks. So although Blue Jeans interconnects are as well made as anything else, they aren't superior enough in any way to justify their cost. I'll no longer recommend BlueJeans interconnects. Other options provide equivalent construction for far less money. YMMV Cordially - Boomzilla I saw a video of them (BJ) making a cable, and was surprised as heck to see the guy just roll the wires back onto the connector body.. heck, I can do that.  |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 20, 2018 10:16:46 GMT -5
Can you hear any difference in interconnects? I can, but only with two brands. And you shouldn't be trying to tune a system's sound with interconnects anyway. And the two brands (for those interested) were Kimber Kable (tended to smooth out the treble - maybe high capacitance?) and Nordost (tended to make the treble bright & edgy). I avoid both now. Cordially - Boomzilla What were the impedences for the Kimber and Nordost cables for which you said you could hear differences? |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 20, 2018 10:19:12 GMT -5
Hi monkumonku - I never tested impedances on those. Since I no longer have them, I can't test them now, either. Sorry. |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 20, 2018 10:22:23 GMT -5
Hi monkumonku - I never tested impedances on those. Since I no longer have them, I can't test them now, either. Sorry. Okay, thanks. I was just curious if the impedance on those was way out in left or right field which caused them to sound so different. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 20, 2018 10:25:13 GMT -5
Okay, thanks. I was just curious if the impedance on those was way out in left or right field which caused them to sound so different. A most reasonable question - I wish I knew the answer... If the impedance was wacky, it indeed MIGHT account for the audibility of those particular brands. If I ever get the chance to test some... |
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Post by leonski on Mar 20, 2018 13:31:21 GMT -5
Okay, thanks. I was just curious if the impedance on those was way out in left or right field which caused them to sound so different. A most reasonable question - I wish I knew the answer... If the impedance was wacky, it indeed MIGHT account for the audibility of those particular brands. If I ever get the chance to test some... Are you actually using a ohmeter which will test RESISTANCE or a more sophisticated setup to actually test impedance? And without knowing inductance AND capacitance, the impedance might not matter ALL that much. For an additional 20 ohms impedance to interact in such a way as to cause audible artifacts when used between gear, the impedance mismatch between gear would be pretty severe to begin with. Maybe 1kohms OUT to 5kohms IN? Something like that, and still? 20 ohms? Hmmmmmmm. |
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Post by thrillcat on Mar 20, 2018 13:38:14 GMT -5
Emotiva MRCA-7 is $10 on sale now... I have one... I have that one too. I love Emotiva but not impressed with that cable at all. I bought the MRCA-7 when I bought my UMC-200 and UPA-700. I had to tighten the caps on almost all of the connectors, no big deal. I plugged it in, got no signal from one channel. Of course, with an entirely new system, where to start. Luckily I started with the cable. Found it was just a bad connection, wiggled it and it would come and go (brand new cable, mind you). So, I wasn't real impressed. What I was impressed with, however, was the fact that they didn't question it at all, sent a replacement. Six months later, when the same thing happened, they also didn't question it and sent a replacement. I'm guessing this QC is why they are getting out of the cable business. They seem to me like rebranded Monoprice cables anyway. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 20, 2018 14:09:00 GMT -5
This is one of those tricky questions that depends largely on the context (including the context of the design involved). For example, let's assume we're discussing a "simple" cable, made up of more or less ordinary RCA connectors, and some sort of coaxial cable.... With that sort of cable, we might see some resistance, but simple resistance isn't likely to be a problem, or audible, unless it is pretty significant. However, if the cable has a loose connection, it might result in an oxidized connection... which might act like a diode... or like an intermittent connection. And, if so, it may introduce high levels of audible distortion. Other than that, many simple coaxial type cables have significant capacitance, which may cause a roll off in high frequency response if your source's impedance isn't very low... especially with a long cable. However, most common types of simple coaxial cable don't have enough inductance to be significant at audio frequencies. (So far we've been talking about a cable that wasn't deliberately designed to have unusual electrical characteristics.) However, once we start talking about "audiophile cables", and especially the sort with little "boxes" attached to the wire that do "special but unspecified magical things", then the story changes... (We're talking about things that a "plain old wire" is specifically NOT designed to do - and which will only occur if the designer specifically added them.) In that case, if the designer specifically added excessive amounts of parallel capacitance, then you may end up with a rolled off high end... or even high frequency distortion at some frequencies. Likewise, if they deliberately added series inductance, you may also end up with rolled off high end. And, of course, other more complex circuitry, which consists of more parts, may have even more unusual effects. (And, in all of those cases, it's quite possible that the extra circuitry will NOT be detectable by a "plain resistance meter".) The upshot of all this is that, if you're talking about a more or less "normal" wire, then using an ordinary Ohmmeter to check for excessive resistance due to poor connections is sufficient. And, if you suspect some sort of unusual circuitry, you're better off using a more comprehensive type of test equipment (or just avoiding it altogether). A most reasonable question - I wish I knew the answer... If the impedance was wacky, it indeed MIGHT account for the audibility of those particular brands. If I ever get the chance to test some... Are you actually using a ohmeter which will test RESISTANCE or a more sophisticated setup to actually test impedance? And without knowing inductance AND capacitance, the impedance might not matter ALL that much. For an additional 20 ohms impedance to interact in such a way as to cause audible artifacts when used between gear, the impedance mismatch between gear would be pretty severe to begin with. Maybe 1kohms OUT to 5kohms IN? Something like that, and still? 20 ohms? Hmmmmmmm. |
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Post by leonski on Mar 20, 2018 15:23:44 GMT -5
This is one of those tricky questions that depends largely on the context (including the context of the design involved). For example, let's assume we're discussing a "simple" cable, made up of more or less ordinary RCA connectors, and some sort of coaxial cable.... With that sort of cable, we might see some resistance, but simple resistance isn't likely to be a problem, or audible, unless it is pretty significant. However, if the cable has a loose connection, it might result in an oxidized connection... which might act like a diode... or like an intermittent connection. And, if so, it may introduce high levels of audible distortion. Other than that, many simple coaxial type cables have significant capacitance, which may cause a roll off in high frequency response if your source's impedance isn't very low... especially with a long cable. However, most common types of simple coaxial cable don't have enough inductance to be significant at audio frequencies. (So far we've been talking about a cable that wasn't deliberately designed to have unusual electrical characteristics.) However, once we start talking about "audiophile cables", and especially the sort with little "boxes" attached to the wire that do "special but unspecified magical things", then the story changes... (We're talking about things that a "plain old wire" is specifically NOT designed to do - and which will only occur if the designer specifically added them.) In that case, if the designer specifically added excessive amounts of parallel capacitance, then you may end up with a rolled off high end... or even high frequency distortion at some frequencies. Likewise, if they deliberately added series inductance, you may also end up with rolled off high end. And, of course, other more complex circuitry, which consists of more parts, may have even more unusual effects. The upshot of all this is that, if you're talking about a more or less "normal" wire, then using an ordinary Ohmmeter to check for excessive resistance due to poor connections is sufficient. And, if you suspect some sort of unusual circuitry, you're better off using a more comprehensive type of test equipment (or just avoiding it altogether). Are you actually using a ohmeter which will test RESISTANCE or a more sophisticated setup to actually test impedance? And without knowing inductance AND capacitance, the impedance might not matter ALL that much. For an additional 20 ohms impedance to interact in such a way as to cause audible artifacts when used between gear, the impedance mismatch between gear would be pretty severe to begin with. Maybe 1kohms OUT to 5kohms IN? Something like that, and still? 20 ohms? Hmmmmmmm. Just a side-note. MANY years ago, some of the first SS diodes were made from either Selenium or COPPER OXIDE. The difference between OHMS of resistance and impedance may not be trivial. Just look at how the average speaker wanders around some 'normal' value. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 20, 2018 15:50:07 GMT -5
Are you actually using a ohmeter which will test RESISTANCE or a more sophisticated setup to actually test impedance? And without knowing inductance AND capacitance, the impedance might not matter ALL that much. For an additional 20 ohms impedance to interact in such a way as to cause audible artifacts when used between gear, the impedance mismatch between gear would be pretty severe to begin with. Maybe 1kohms OUT to 5kohms IN? Something like that, and still? 20 ohms? Hmmmmmmm. Hi leonski - You're absolutely correct. an additional 30 ohms of resistance on an interconnect should not matter significantly. And I'm looking solely at resistance - not inductance or capacitance (and thus, not impedance). And further, I'm positing that variation in that resistance is an indicator of construction quality. Is this a valid metric? I think that it may be. Others may certainly disagree. But when I find a range of typical resistances from 0.02 to 0.25 ohms, and have a single outlier at 31 ohms, it makes me suspicious of that interconnect (although not of that brand of interconnect, necessarily...). In short, I want my interconnects to measure consistently from sample to sample. And provided that they're in the "normal" range for other wires of the same connector, then I'm satisfied. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Mar 20, 2018 15:57:57 GMT -5
I recommend using RCA cables that are long enough to connect your gear without being strained, and ones that are well made. Anything else is overkill and audiophoolery.
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Post by leonski on Mar 20, 2018 16:06:29 GMT -5
2 other factors which effect resistance of a wire? Length and gauge. Maybe even stranded V solid?
When you buy a BIG spool of cable, they list resistance for some length, maybe 100 feet or even 1000 feet. Do the Math!
Some ULTRA cheap cables might even be Aluminum wire? Man, I hope NOT!
However, given the range of your readings, I too, would be somewhat suspicious of the 'outlier' of 31 ohms. If it were a cheap cable, I would Take It Apart and SEE.
Some recent posts about low channel output MAY be ascribed to very high interconnect resistance? Wigggle and it 'heals for a time?
Just thinking out loud.
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 20, 2018 16:43:01 GMT -5
You might be right about that specific interconnect, leonski, but the 99% of that particular problem was some digital weirdness inside the Oppo (solved with a reset of the device). Unfortunately, I tossed the interconnect, and the trash man picked it up and hauled it away this morning. My target price for interconnects is between $20 and $60 per pair. I'll pay as much as the $60 if I think that the construction quality is superior (StraightWire, Zu, or Ixos), but in general, the Canare ones (generally $20 or less) are just fine with me. |
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Post by gus4emo on Mar 20, 2018 19:35:17 GMT -5
You might be right about that specific interconnect, leonski, but the 99% of that particular problem was some digital weirdness inside the Oppo (solved with a reset of the device). Unfortunately, I tossed the interconnect, and the trash man picked it up and hauled it away this morning. My target price for interconnects is between $20 and $60 per pair. I'll pay as much as the $60 if I think that the construction quality is superior (StraightWire, Zu, or Ixos), but in general, the Canare ones (generally $20 or less) are just fine with me. Hey boom, have you ever used Mediabridge, I use them, good shieding, good connectors, good sound, I'm talking about their coax type..... |
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Post by leonski on Mar 20, 2018 19:55:48 GMT -5
I recommend using RCA cables that are long enough to connect your gear without being strained, and ones that are well made. Anything else is overkill and audiophoolery. And yet, substantial anecdotal evidence of 'audible differences' in cables. Flawed systems requiring some 'crutch'? User preference? Cable as 'Tone Control'? Psychological Issues? I generally fall on YOUR side, DY, but realize that many persons search far and wide for the 'magic' cable. Even a discussion of insulators. PTFE? Nylon? Air? Foamed PTFE? All sorts of choices and some have followers or detractors. |
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