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Post by lynnmass603 on Apr 30, 2018 14:53:05 GMT -5
firmware was only for the volume control had nothing to do with the muting issue which i believe only existed in the very first run of the xda-1
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Post by mraudio on Apr 30, 2018 15:30:13 GMT -5
If you read the link I posted at the top of this thread, my interpretation is that the "original" front panel with the linear volume scheme worked correctly. Mine has the later 0-80 log volume.
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,266
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Post by KeithL on Apr 30, 2018 17:01:09 GMT -5
OK..... let's be honest here. We're talking about a unit that was sold more than seven years ago.... and came with a five year warranty. And, apparently, the original owner was quite satisfied with the way the unit worked - since he did not send it in under warranty to be updated or repaired. Essentially, the OP wishes to perform modifications on a product that is both discontinued and out of warranty. There were two production updates that we know of.... one of which changed the action of the Volume control, and one of which slightly altered the muting behavior. At least one update, the Volume control modification, involved a change to the front panel firmware - which can only be updated here at the factory. (That would mean a $100 minimum out-of-warranty service ticket). My information does not indicate which capacitor was changed, or whether the capacitor change can be performed by itself, or requires that the firmware be updated at the same time. (The one update may be contingent on the other.) Unlike many companies, if we had the information readily available, we would be willing to provide it.... unfortunately we do not. You are certainly entitled to your opinion ions. I realize some areas advance fairly quickly. And I'm much less informed about HT gear in general. So for those reasons I'll never go the HT route. The 'churn' is too much to manage. And fixability seems lacking once you are out of warranty. But we haven't got to the 'what does it need' stage yet. Only some references to changes made which I'm really thinking EMO should be able to both document AND reference to some point in production. Or that pesky capacitor which is certainly NOT a proprietary part. I'm sorry.......Something at the 7 year mark should STILL be fixable. Just my Opinion. One other question? Did EMO use the reference board supplied by the DAC manufacturer (the chipset) as a start or come up with an all-original design? I know only EMO knows, but that is just a curiousity of mine. I doubt it matters. cheers and all. |
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Post by mraudio on Apr 30, 2018 17:24:13 GMT -5
"Essentially, the OP wishes to perform "modifications" on a product that is both discontinued and out of warranty".
AFAIK, these were NOT modifications that weren't needed? There was an initial problem with the unit and it needed to be corrected. I guess you could call it a mod, but it shouldn't have been a problem from the beginning...correct? Call it what you will, but this just isn't right, (to do or say).
The owner I bought it from never noticed the problem because he used STRICTLY CDs. All the sample rates were 16/44.1 and he didn't own any higher rez files. So, kinda hard to notice if you never cross that path.
Also, most of the Emotiva gear that I've seen the insides of, the units are all modular. I am a pretty decent tech, (self proclaimed) and can handle a pretty mean soldering iron. In this case, it takes, what about 2 minutes to unplug 3-4 molex connectors and then unscrew the board. No soldering even required. Then the board could be sent in and fixed.
Pretty simple fix seems to me, if someone actually knew how to do it.
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Post by mraudio on Apr 30, 2018 18:35:49 GMT -5
Sorry, but I feel that I've been pretty calm, cooled and collected through this whole thing...until now.
I can't believe an Emotiva employee said the following to a customer, (and I quote from above):
"We're talking about a unit that was sold more than seven years ago.... and came with a five year warranty.
And, apparently, the original owner was quite satisfied with the way the unit worked - since he did not send it in under warranty to be updated or repaired. Essentially, the OP wishes to perform modifications on a product that is both discontinued and out of warranty."
So, we are led to believe, based on this employee's comments, the gear that Emotiva has made, is making or will make, after it has been discontinued and out-of-warranty...can't be fixed. I guarantee that this is NOT the business practice nor business philosophy that Dan had envisioned when he started Emotiva.
This has just spun into the stupid void...
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Post by mraudio on Apr 30, 2018 18:50:37 GMT -5
Emotiva rejected giving you an estimate to repair the unit? No, Emotiva has said that it can't be fixed. No one knows how it was originally repaired. I get the impression that it could very well be fixed if they could find the notes or comments or whatever is needed to fix it. |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 30, 2018 19:11:55 GMT -5
The only thing that really matters is that Emotiva lost the firmware and cannot fix it. . This is not the original sellers fault or the second hand buyer's fault. All it means is there is no real solution to this.
Emotiva doesn't owe this gentleman a new dac and it doesn't look like he is wanting that. But it may be smart from a PR point of view though to offer some type of compensation for their error. I'm not saying Emotiva has to though. They can do what they like.
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Post by mraudio on Apr 30, 2018 19:16:00 GMT -5
The only thing that really matters is that Emotiva lost the firmware and cannot fix it. . This is not the original sellers fault or the second hand buyer's fault. All it means is there is no real solution to this. Emotiva doesn't owe this gentleman a new dac and it doesn't look like he is wanting that. But it may be smart from a PR point of view though to offer some type of compensation for their error. I'm not saying Emotiva has to though. They can do what they like. Thanks for the comments. I am not looking for, nor was any implied, any compensation of any kind. Again, I am willing to fix it myself, if I could. |
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Post by leonski on Apr 30, 2018 22:48:57 GMT -5
The only thing that really matters is that Emotiva lost the firmware and cannot fix it. . This is not the original sellers fault or the second hand buyer's fault. All it means is there is no real solution to this. Emotiva doesn't owe this gentleman a new dac and it doesn't look like he is wanting that. But it may be smart from a PR point of view though to offer some type of compensation for their error. I'm not saying Emotiva has to though. They can do what they like. I just keep coming back to Mcintosh fixing stuff 50 years old and older, with few exceptions. 7 years being over the 5 year line might TECHNICALLY remove liability from EMO but I can't believe this information and expertise is not available. Me? I'd consider the 100$ repair 'ticket' fee and just get it fixed. IF they can do so. |
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Post by mraudio on Apr 30, 2018 23:28:45 GMT -5
The only thing that really matters is that Emotiva lost the firmware and cannot fix it. . This is not the original sellers fault or the second hand buyer's fault. All it means is there is no real solution to this. Emotiva doesn't owe this gentleman a new dac and it doesn't look like he is wanting that. But it may be smart from a PR point of view though to offer some type of compensation for their error. I'm not saying Emotiva has to though. They can do what they like. I just keep coming back to Mcintosh fixing stuff 50 years old and older, with few exceptions. 7 years being over the 5 year line might TECHNICALLY remove liability from EMO but I can't believe this information and expertise is not available. Me? I'd consider the 100$ repair 'ticket' fee and just get it fixed. IF they can do so. That wasn't really an option. He was using that as an example, I think. I'm am not a digital tech and certainly not an EMO tech, but I really don't think the problem is in the front panel of my unit. The problem is timing within the Mute circuit, (a different mute circuit than the mute button on the remote). The unit comes out of mute before or right as the sample rate is changing. Not sure if we're hearing some type of digital switching distortion or some digital anomaly, but if they could extend the timing out, for example, an extra .25 seconds, it would cover the sample rate switch and we wouldn't hear it. Maybe the front panel firmware is somehow tied to this mute issue, but that would be somewhat odd. Are they mutually exclusive? |
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Post by brutiarti on May 1, 2018 3:42:40 GMT -5
Just for the record, Mcintosh equipment only comes with 3 year warranty.
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Post by leonski on May 1, 2018 12:44:16 GMT -5
Just for the record, Mcintosh equipment only comes with 3 year warranty. I have a buddy with 50+year old Mcintosh Tube Amps which are still fixable by Mc. Much, but by no means ALL, Mc gear is still supported to one extent or another by the 'factory'. This even though Mc has gone thru several ownership changes over the years. |
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Post by novisnick on May 1, 2018 13:56:49 GMT -5
Just for the record, Mcintosh equipment only comes with 3 year warranty. I have a buddy with 50+year old Mcintosh Tube Amps which are still fixable by Mc. Much, but by no means ALL, Mc gear is still supported to one extent or another by the 'factory'. This even though Mc has gone thru several ownership changes over the years. So your making a direct comparison of Emotiva to McIntosh? Is that a complement to Emotiva or a slap at McIntosh or are you saying they are equal? I sure hope that Emotiva has aspirations of becoming as well regarded as McIntosh, I also pray that in many years from now Emotiva will be able to service my gear, especially my XPR-1 ‘s ! I would hate to think that a $1,000.00 plus piece of gear couldn’t be repaired. 😲😢 |
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Post by leonski on May 1, 2018 14:24:47 GMT -5
My point is the when you purchase something.....ANYTHING.....in the audio line, you are purchasing the company, too. I sent my 20+ year old Magnepan MG-1 speakers to Minnesota and they came back good as new.
EMO does seem to overall have good service, but I'm not impressed with a software problem (is it?) on something only 7 years old.
I was at a demo at which one of the pair of Constellation Amps malfunctioned. That's a 50,000$ + pair of monos. I'd be offended if they sent me a bill for the fix.
Another buddy had a problem with his Parasound JC-1 mono. Fixed Gratis.
While I can't expect that sort of response for a piece of kit original selling for 300$ or 350$, give or take, I would expect The comppany to keep good track of documentation and revision history, coupled with the appropriate schematics.
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Post by novisnick on May 1, 2018 15:49:04 GMT -5
My point is the when you purchase something.....ANYTHING.....in the audio line, you are purchasing the company, too. I sent my 20+ year old Magnepan MG-1 speakers to Minnesota and they came back good as new. EMO does seem to overall have good service, but I'm not impressed with a software problem (is it?) on something only 7 years old. I was at a demo at which one of the pair of Constellation Amps malfunctioned. That's a 50,000$ + pair of monos. I'd be offended if they sent me a bill for the fix. Another buddy had a problem with his Parasound JC-1 mono. Fixed Gratis. While I can't expect that sort of response for a piece of kit original selling for 300$ or 350$, give or take, I would expect The comppany to keep good track of documentation and revision history, coupled with the appropriate schematics. “I would expect The comppany to keep good track of documentation and revision history, coupled with the appropriate schematics.” Absalutly! But, theres always a but and Im NOT stating this as a fanboy! Emotiva has grown in spurts and this loss of data is unfortunate but evidently real. With growth sometimes there is real pain. A lesson well learned we hope. That howwe learn, as a person and a company, we make mistakes. Its not like there has been a bevy of this sort of problem and over all Emotiva has been very good in the customer service department. Would you not agree? |
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Post by leonski on May 1, 2018 17:37:48 GMT -5
EMO would NEVER EVER pass an ISO audit. No 'BUTS!' allowed.
Computers are Real Good at simply remembering. It's easy to enter stuff, assign to a file or folder and organize.
Documentation procedures should be taught and adhered to.
Somebody should be in a responsible position and keep track of ALL documentation as 'approved' with a procedure in place for making documentation changes, vetting same and assigning sequential numbers to keep track all changes. Engineering, Manufacturing and parts acquisition 'approvals' should be signed for on EACH and every major engineering change.
I've worked companies which had to pass ISO audits. A CREW of auditors shows up. They would spend 3 or so days simply going over paperwork. Then a sub-team would go into the manufacturing end and ask operators and technicians
what they did, WHY and even dispute resolution.....How do you mediate a problem if a specification is not clear? My Specialty was SPC (statistical process control) and specification writing. I was responsible for direct interface with auditors
on several manufacturing issues IN-FAB. Caught auditors in a lie once, and a no-confidence situation and my helper from Quality about had a coronary on the spot. I turned it into a laugh to defuse.
I'd LOVE to help EMO get up to speed on this sort of thing. I'd work cheap, expect a reasonable apartment in-town and a RT ticket home for a couple days every 6 weeks or so. Make it a 6 month contract.
EMO'S customer service gets solid marks and I won't criticize in this forum. I've seen indications in other posts of things I'd change or try to improve.
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Post by novisnick on May 1, 2018 18:01:54 GMT -5
EMO would NEVER EVER pass an ISO audit. No 'BUTS!' allowed. Computers are Real Good at simply remembering. It's easy to enter stuff, assign to a file or folder and organize. Documentation procedures should be taught and adhered to. Somebody should be in a responsible position and keep track of ALL documentation as 'approved' with a procedure in place for making documentation changes, vetting same and assigning sequential numbers to keep track all changes. Engineering, Manufacturing and parts acquisition 'approvals' should be signed for on EACH and every major engineering change. I've worked companies which had to pass ISO audits. A CREW of auditors shows up. They would spend 3 or so days simply going over paperwork. Then a sub-team would go into the manufacturing end and ask operators and technicians what they did, WHY and even dispute resolution.....How do you mediate a problem if a specification is not clear? My Specialty was SPC (statistical process control) and specification writing. I was responsible for direct interface with auditors on several manufacturing issues IN-FAB. Caught auditors in a lie once, and a no-confidence situation and my helper from Quality about had a coronary on the spot. I turned it into a laugh to defuse. I'd LOVE to help EMO get up to speed on this sort of thing. I'd work cheap, expect a reasonable apartment in-town and a RT ticket home for a couple days every 6 weeks or so. Make it a 6 month contract. EMO'S customer service gets solid marks and I won't criticize in this forum. I've seen indications in other posts of things I'd change or try to improve. Im not familiar with all of this but what size companies are you talking about? How long have they been in operation? sounds like much money and resources are dedicated to this type of endeavor. Im sure it’s warranted at some level. Thanks 😁 |
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Post by leonski on May 1, 2018 18:29:31 GMT -5
Just for example, I doubt automotive companies buy from anyone NOT ISO Certified. There are a bunch of 'em. The first I was familiar with was ISO9001 or some such.
It really doesn't cost more to do this. You simply say what you are going to do and do what you say. That means specifications and documentation. We DIDN'T have a bunch of QA inspectors running around. Or maybe you'd prefer QC. We called 'em Quick Check.
And they are NOT generally value added. Companies should restrict themselves to VALUE ADDED activities.
Documentation and the stuff I ramble on about DO add value since it both builds good will with customers, but allows slightly higher prices for a company which people KNOW will have the answers. My experience with Hunter Fans? I can't believe they are still in
business.
Just for example? Let's say your company bought a BUNCH of nuts and bolts. But from company 'A' you had defective parts and had to either rely on the assembler OR some kind of incoming inspection to catch 'bad stuff' OR you could pay a little more and get
100% good parts all the time....and delivered in a fashion that didn't pile 'em up in YOUR store room. Just In Time.
I know what I'd do. Get the QA (former nut and bolt inspector) doing something to actually make some money and pay the slight surcharge for good stuff to begin with.
Imagine the guy doing the assembly just crossthreading some nut on its bolt to MOVE THE PRODUCT and than later, somebody having to FIX it and being confronted with jammed hardware.
Apply the above to ANYTHING you might need to make your product.
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