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Post by audiobill on May 10, 2018 13:08:52 GMT -5
I titled this thread Observations rather than Review because it will not follow the usual form of features, bass, mids, treble etc.
After owning many great dacs over the past 5 years, including the DC-1, the PS Audio Perfectwave, the NAD M51, the Grace m920 and the Theta Gen V(a), I have become increasingly aware of the importance of the power supply and analog output stages to the sonic quality of a dac. And while all these are great sounding dacs, I had a real revelation listening to the Theta, my first multibit dac. Mike Moffat from Theta also started Schiit who has led the way forward to multibit dacs.
So, knowing that, for me, tubes are just plain better at creating wonderful images and soundstages while sounding impressively musical, I was intrigued by the Audio Note 4.1 LE, which I built from the kit. While not inexpensive at $3,100 (the assembled version in the UK is 13,000 lbs UK or about $17.000 USD so quite a bargain in kit form) , it includes these goodies:
-Tube rectified and regulated power supply with very substantial transformers -Multibit AD1865 dac chip - considered among the very best -No upsampling or oversampling, sidesampling, reconstruction etc etc anywhere - just clean digital to analog conversion -Transformer coupled I/V and C-Core transformer coupled output -Tube output stage
As for parts quality, each resistor, capacitor, transformer, circuit board, jacks, and even stainless steel screws are among the best money can buy. No skimping, exploding capacitors, noisy smd resistors to be found here. I love knowing, part by part, I've got the best. Take a look:
Parts Complement includes:
2 x Triple C-Core Output Transformers
2 x I/V Transformers
Toroidal Digital Transformer
Signature Digital PCB (pre-assembled)
TAKMAN 1W Resistors (power supply PCB)
Audio Note 1W Resistors (output PCB)
Mundorf Silver Gold Oil Film Caps*
Elna Cerafine Bypass Caps (output PCB)
PTFE Silver Plated Hookup Wire
Audio Note Silver RCA jacks
I considered the Schiit Yggdrasil, but if you look at the inside pics on their site compared to the Audio Note 4.1 you will feel that you're looking more at a computer than an audio component. Remember, the power supply and analog output stage are critical to great sound. Just gaze at the Audio Note transformers and remember this is a dac....not a power amplifier!
www.schiit.com/products/yggdrasil
ankaudiokits.com/Non-Oversampling-Valve-Rectified-Tube-DAC.html
As for the sound, all this attention to design and detail comes through. For example, the bass is so solid that I disconnected my subwoofer, and the harmonics on bass instruments are clear, solid and satisfying.
The clarity, transparency, and overall presence are nothing short of amazing. I find myself surrounded by the musicians, with no thought of fatigue, irritation or discomfort. Just the music, and how!
I really don't want to engage in an engineering analysis, and will leave that to others. You can buy specs on the cheap, but I've learned they don't always translate to the best sonics.
Simply put, if you can afford and seek this level of sonics and musical satisfaction I know you'd be as overjoyed as I am with this dac.
And that's it!
www.whatsbestforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12666&d=1385227741
Bill
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Post by simpleman68 on May 10, 2018 13:13:53 GMT -5
Great "expose" Bill. I'll have to get up your way one of these days for a listen.
I have also noticed substantial sonic gains utilizing separate power supplies when I got one a few months back for my Wavelet. (DSP/DAC)
Would there be any benefit in going to 2 chips, 1 for each channel?
Scott
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Post by audiobill on May 10, 2018 13:25:23 GMT -5
Thanks, Scott!
I wouldn't second guess the Audio Note engineers - just look at the reviews of their equipment!
Bill
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Post by novisnick on May 10, 2018 13:39:20 GMT -5
Enjoyed your take on the Audio Note 4.1 LE
The components are very impressive!
I follow Hans Beekhuyzen Youtube channel and he too is an advocate for seperate upgraded power supplies.
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Post by Loop 7 on May 10, 2018 15:38:12 GMT -5
Really enjoyed the post. Sounds like a remarkable DAC and something I would love.
By chance, did you take any pictures during the build process?
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Post by bluemeanies on May 12, 2018 8:11:32 GMT -5
Great post Bill. I am most looking forward to having this dac in my system and in partnership with my new custom made SP14. While the Audionote has a pricing point a bit higher than one would be comfortable with in the purchase of a standalone dac one cannot argue about the complexity of this kit and taking CHEAP out of the equation with quality printed circuits the M2X power supply card numerous BlackGate / Mundorf M-Cap supreme and Audionote capacitors, and the 6X5 and ECL82/6BM8 tubes.
Let's not forget the C-Core transformers with most would think of only visualizing in a SS amplifier.
I was never really consumed by the SCHIIT's Yggdrasil dac. From most of my reading the warm up time for accurate performance was over-exggerated. Internally to me it was not impressive and as mentioned looked more like something you would see in a computer rather than a dac.Reading about the Yggdrasil break in time.. as little as 20hours to as long as a week to as long as a month...that statement from a paid reviewer. Now only the long break in time but more important was how the Yggdrasil performed if not broken in properly. It seemed to me for such a quality piece and at a price point of $2300.00 I wanted more for my money and that meant less hassle. 7 days to break anything in with this hobby is more than what I would bargain for spending $2300.00.
The reviews however after break in were more than RAVE but having Mike Moffat's name attach to the Yggdrasil design I believe drew a lot of attention since Mike gave birth to the THETA multibit dac.
The Audionote for OPTIUM performance reguires a 350 hour burn in time however the key word here is optium and the out of the box performance is not harsh, and according to owners of this dac the performance out of the box after assembly was better than most dacs claiming plug and play performance...the Audionote just keeps getting better with more time.
The only downfall that I can see with this KIT dac is resale value..however I do believe the Audionote is a keeper...QUALITY does not come cheap, something of quality you never give up it continues to give the owner a higher value and performance.
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Post by garbulky on May 12, 2018 9:36:10 GMT -5
I don't know why you guys think it looks like a computer. Other than being modular, it looks nothing like a computer to me. No computer I know has dual transformers and 12 regulated power supplies.  I think a larger issue is that ladder dacs (like the audionote) require warm up time, I think due to their resistors. My Denon DCD 660 took about 1-2 days to warm up which uses a PCM61. But the Audionote has tubes which makes one think twice about leaving it on the whole time like I would do for the Denon and the Schiit I used. |
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Post by bluemeanies on May 12, 2018 19:37:29 GMT -5
I don't know why you guys think it looks like a computer. Other than being modular, it looks nothing like a computer to me. No computer I know has dual transformers and 12 regulated power supplies. I think a larger issue is that ladder dacs (like the audionote) require warm up time, I think due to their resistors. My Denon DCD 660 took about 1-2 days to warm up which uses a PCM61. But the Audionote has tubes which makes one think twice about leaving it on the whole time like I would do for the Denon and the Schiit I used. Gar...I love you brother but the reasons the Yggdrasil looks like a computer board is ...well it just does compared to the inners of the audionote. I just received my SP14 and audionote 4.1LE and straight out of the gate that combination turns my room into 360 degrees of musical enchantment. Clearly the dac makes high distinctions between some challenging imagery when it comes to something likes brushes on a hi-hat. My soundstage has improved. Given I have a small area to work with and only a 7’ ceiling the SP14 and audionote surround me with music. The front imagery is overwhelming. Front dead center and the music eludes your mind into thinking it’s a live performance. That’s what a good combination of tube pre-amp and an external tube dac can do. It makes you not only believe in magic but be a part of it. My room is a JAZZ CLUB...Tonight ERIC ALEXANDER is performing....LIVE! To dream the impossible dream...it’s here! |
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Post by novisnick on May 12, 2018 19:51:52 GMT -5
Thats strange @blumeanies I dont see any tube DAC in your sig. 🤔
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Post by monkumonku on May 12, 2018 20:40:43 GMT -5
I don't know why you guys think it looks like a computer. Other than being modular, it looks nothing like a computer to me. No computer I know has dual transformers and 12 regulated power supplies. I think a larger issue is that ladder dacs (like the audionote) require warm up time, I think due to their resistors. My Denon DCD 660 took about 1-2 days to warm up which uses a PCM61. But the Audionote has tubes which makes one think twice about leaving it on the whole time like I would do for the Denon and the Schiit I used. Gar...I love you brother but the reasons the Yggdrasil looks like a computer board is ...well it just does compared to the inners of the audionote. I just received my SP14 and audionote 4.1LE and straight out of the gate that combination turns my room into 360 degrees of musical enchantment. Clearly the dac makes high distinctions between some challenging imagery when it comes to something likes brushes on a hi-hat. My soundstage has improved. Given I have a small area to work with and only a 7’ ceiling the SP14 and audionote surround me with music. The front imagery is overwhelming. Front dead center and the music eludes your mind into thinking it’s a live performance. That’s what a good combination of tube pre-amp and an external tube dac can do. It makes you not only believe in magic but be a part of it. My room is a JAZZ CLUB...Tonight ERIC ALEXANDER is performing....LIVE! To dream the impossible dream...it’s here! Suggestion (or more like a request, I guess) - as an experiment separate the SP14 and the DAC, using your prior equipment in its place to see how much effect each one has by itself? I guess that's a hassle to rewire stuff but it would be interesting to note how much improvement comes from each component on its own. |
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Post by klinemj on May 12, 2018 20:59:19 GMT -5
I don't know why you guys think it looks like a computer. Other than being modular, it looks nothing like a computer to me. No computer I know has dual transformers and 12 regulated power supplies. I think a larger issue is that ladder dacs (like the audionote) require warm up time, I think due to their resistors. My Denon DCD 660 took about 1-2 days to warm up which uses a PCM61. But the Audionote has tubes which makes one think twice about leaving it on the whole time like I would do for the Denon and the Schiit I used. Most computers I have looked inside have green circuit boards. So, what you post is definitely not a computer. Looks more like a circuit board for a heater (being red and all...ya know...).  Mark |
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Post by monkumonku on May 12, 2018 21:12:06 GMT -5
I don't know why you guys think it looks like a computer. Other than being modular, it looks nothing like a computer to me. No computer I know has dual transformers and 12 regulated power supplies. I think a larger issue is that ladder dacs (like the audionote) require warm up time, I think due to their resistors. My Denon DCD 660 took about 1-2 days to warm up which uses a PCM61. But the Audionote has tubes which makes one think twice about leaving it on the whole time like I would do for the Denon and the Schiit I used. Most computers I have looked inside have green circuit boards. So, what you post is definitely not a computer. Looks more like a circuit board for a heater (being red and all...ya know...). Mark Oxford Dictionary definition of "computer" - An electronic device for storing and processing data, typically in binary form, according to instructions given to it in a variable program.So nyah!  |
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Post by creimes on May 12, 2018 21:52:43 GMT -5
Bill that DAC looks amazing, I do not have the funds for such a thing and never mind the qualifications to put one together haha, having that kit in front of me in parts I would prob start to cry a bit in frustration lol, good work sir.
Chad
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Post by garbulky on May 12, 2018 23:11:45 GMT -5
I don't know why you guys think it looks like a computer. Other than being modular, it looks nothing like a computer to me. No computer I know has dual transformers and 12 regulated power supplies. I think a larger issue is that ladder dacs (like the audionote) require warm up time, I think due to their resistors. My Denon DCD 660 took about 1-2 days to warm up which uses a PCM61. But the Audionote has tubes which makes one think twice about leaving it on the whole time like I would do for the Denon and the Schiit I used. Gar...I love you brother but the reasons the Yggdrasil looks like a computer board is ...well it just does compared to the inners of the audionote. I just received my SP14 and audionote 4.1LE and straight out of the gate that combination turns my room into 360 degrees of musical enchantment. Clearly the dac makes high distinctions between some challenging imagery when it comes to something likes brushes on a hi-hat. My soundstage has improved. Given I have a small area to work with and only a 7’ ceiling the SP14 and audionote surround me with music. The front imagery is overwhelming. Front dead center and the music eludes your mind into thinking it’s a live performance. That’s what a good combination of tube pre-amp and an external tube dac can do. It makes you not only believe in magic but be a part of it. My room is a JAZZ CLUB...Tonight ERIC ALEXANDER is performing....LIVE! To dream the impossible dream...it’s here! Hi there! First of all, I just want to say I completely forgot to congratulate you both on having such an excellent time with this really cool new piece of gear. Secondly, I really wish I could hear it! Because it sounds like it sounds really good. I’m glad you guys are enjoying it. Please keep us updated. I can’t help but notice that you both No I have tubes from end to end. That’s really cool. |
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Post by bluemeanies on May 13, 2018 6:51:50 GMT -5
Thats strange @blumeanies I dont see any tube DAC in your sig. 🤔Picky, picky, picky 😂😂 I will take care of that today...thanks for the reminder. |
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Post by gld3gld3 on May 13, 2018 7:50:13 GMT -5
Great job audiobill! The more I come across DIY audio projects, the more it makes me want to build some myself. Not only for the potential cost/performance ratio, but for the fun of building something myself! I've been thinking of jumping in (getting my feet wet) with a pair of Pass Amp Camp Amps (balanced bridged monoblocks). They look simple and fun to build. Thanks for inspiring us through your work and audio journey. I would have never imagined it possible to build a DIY DAC. I wonder if there are other DIY options out there with a similar design philosophy for less $$$$! I don't know if I'll ever be able to put that kind of cash down for a DAC. |
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Post by bluemeanies on May 13, 2018 7:55:17 GMT -5
Gar...I love you brother but the reasons the Yggdrasil looks like a computer board is ...well it just does compared to the inners of the audionote. I just received my SP14 and audionote 4.1LE and straight out of the gate that combination turns my room into 360 degrees of musical enchantment. Clearly the dac makes high distinctions between some challenging imagery when it comes to something likes brushes on a hi-hat. My soundstage has improved. Given I have a small area to work with and only a 7’ ceiling the SP14 and audionote surround me with music. The front imagery is overwhelming. Front dead center and the music eludes your mind into thinking it’s a live performance. That’s what a good combination of tube pre-amp and an external tube dac can do. It makes you not only believe in magic but be a part of it. My room is a JAZZ CLUB...Tonight ERIC ALEXANDER is performing....LIVE! To dream the impossible dream...it’s here! Hi there! First of all, I just want to say I completely forgot to congratulate you both on having such an excellent time with this really cool new piece of gear. Secondly, I really wish I could hear it! Because it sounds like it sounds really good. I’m glad you guys are enjoying it. Please keep us updated. I can’t help but notice that you both No I have tubes from end to end. That’s really cool. Thank you gar...I pretty much said all I could say about the performance of both pieces. I was really surprised that my soundstage improved. My room is small compare to others...only 8' separation between speakers and the 803 diamonds have a decent size footprint 👣 Also as mentioned my ceiling height is only 7'. However I am not complaining some people have less to work with and they do not have a dedicated room. I live in a twin outside of Philadelphia and the room design was challenging. My room is a room within a room all of the walls float on thick rubber U boats. The frame for the walls with double sheets of drywall are roughly 7" thick with sheet block in between. The ceiling has a similar process except for the thickness. Also in between the walls and ceiling there is mineral fiber for additional sound proofing. I have sound proof doors, the only thing that people can hear upstairs is the bass which of course is uncontrollable. Little travels through the one supply vent for the AC. I just wanted you to have an idea of what I am dealing with relating to my 2channel system. My 803's are about 5' from the back wall BUT ONLY 6" from the sidewalls. Nonetheless the bass is not boomy and with this new pre and dac the bass is very tight and noticeable. The bass does not hold back. To me B& W speakers at least the diamond series are very efficient in the bass department. I can also validate the same for the 804S series. However there is definitely a more definitive sound when listening to an upright bass or guitar with the SP14 and the Audionot. Also, and this is important, on this forum people mentioned the album from Miles Davis "kind of blue" and felt his playing at the end was sort of distorted. People also commented that maybe it could be their speakers. With this combo I can definitely say it is not the speakers. The SP14 and the Audionote dac clean it up BUT remember when this was recorded and the equipment that was used recording Kind of Blue not to mention which is also very important how many times was this album pressed? Piano, horns drums and guitar are NOT unreal but more REAL and life like even more than with my previous pre-amp dac which by the way is no slouch. I am not a reviewer gar and only in laymans terms can I best describe my experience with a touch of audio terminology. One more thing about the Yggdrasil. The Yggdrasil for me was not a good choice and there were reasons. One being I had read that it was bright and with my 803's I felt that would be a bad combination. There were other reasons but I just want you to know I am not trying to degrade the Yggdrasil in any way. For many it is a top performer and people are happy with it and that is all that matters. |
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Post by novisnick on May 13, 2018 8:45:51 GMT -5
Thats strange @blumeanies I dont see any tube DAC in your sig. 🤔Picky, picky, picky 😂😂 I will take care of that today...thanks for the reminder. Wish I could swing one! 😢 |
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Post by novisnick on May 13, 2018 8:51:44 GMT -5
Hi there! First of all, I just want to say I completely forgot to congratulate you both on having such an excellent time with this really cool new piece of gear. Secondly, I really wish I could hear it! Because it sounds like it sounds really good. I’m glad you guys are enjoying it. Please keep us updated. I can’t help but notice that you both No I have tubes from end to end. That’s really cool. Thank you gar...I pretty much said all I could say about the performance of both pieces. I was really surprised that my soundstage improved. My room is small compare to others...only 8' separation between speakers and the 803 diamonds have a decent size footprint 👣 Also as mentioned my ceiling height is only 7'. However I am not complaining some people have less to work with and they do not have a dedicated room. I live in a twin outside of Philadelphia and the room design was challenging. My room is a room within a room all of the walls float on thick rubber U boats. The frame for the walls with double sheets of drywall are roughly 7" thick with sheet block in between. The ceiling has a similar process except for the thickness. Also in between the walls and ceiling there is mineral fiber for additional sound proofing. I have sound proof doors, the only thing that people can hear upstairs is the bass which of course is uncontrollable. Little travels through the one supply vent for the AC. I just wanted you to have an idea of what I am dealing with relating to my 2channel system. My 803's are about 5' from the back wall BUT ONLY 6" from the sidewalls. Nonetheless the bass is not boomy and with this new pre and dac the bass is very tight and noticeable. The bass does not hold back. To me B& W speakers at least the diamond series are very efficient in the bass department. I can also validate the same for the 804S series. However there is definitely a more definitive sound when listening to an upright bass or guitar with the SP14 and the Audionot. Also, and this is important, on this forum people mentioned the album from Miles Davis "kind of blue" and felt his playing at the end was sort of distorted. People also commented that maybe it could be their speakers. With this combo I can definitely say it is not the speakers. The SP14 and the Audionote dac clean it up BUT remember when this was recorded and the equipment that was used recording Kind of Blue not to mention which is also very important how many times was this album pressed? Piano, horns drums and guitar are NOT unreal but more REAL and life like even more than with my previous pre-amp dac which by the way is no slouch. I am not a reviewer gar and only in laymans terms can I best describe my experience with a touch of audio terminology. One more thing about the Yggdrasil. The Yggdrasil for me was not a good choice and there were reasons. One being I had read that it was bright and with my 803's I felt that would be a bad combination. There were other reasons but I just want you to know I am not trying to degrade the Yggdrasil in any way. For many it is a top performer and people are happy with it and that is all that matters. I enjoyed this review as much as any in Stereophile magazine bluemeanies ! Thanks so much! 👍 |
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Post by bluemeanies on May 14, 2018 14:15:40 GMT -5
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