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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 8, 2018 19:12:49 GMT -5
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Post by garbulky on Oct 8, 2018 23:11:12 GMT -5
By the way in case you haven't already tried this.... leave the thing on for about a day. I noticed the treble signature change noticeably. At the beginning it feels on the "bright" side. Now it sounds a lot better. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 9, 2018 6:33:18 GMT -5
By the way in case you haven't already tried this.... leave the thing on for about a day. I noticed the treble signature change noticeably. At the beginning it feels on the "bright" side. Now it sounds a lot better. I have hesitated to write more about the sound of these amps for several reasons, mostly because it’s been so long since I listened to the Maggie’s, and because the room and surrounding equipment and furniture has changed — that it’s a whole new ball game. That said I find the amps very enjoyable and natural for casual and semi critical listening, but they simply don’t have enough power for the Magnepan 20.1’s in my room. If you look at the measurements on the previous page you see that at my listening position, with about a Watt, I’m getting 75 dB SPL from the Maggies. That means about 95 dB with 100 Watts and the PA-1 has maybe a couple dB of headroom from there. My VTLs have about 450 Watts, roughly triple the PA-1, not to mention that they’re tubes and run out of steam more gracefully. The sonic signature between the two amps is also drastically different, which doesn’t mean either is bad. When I push the PA-1s during an ‘exuberant’ listening session, they just run out of steam. No shame, that’s what they’re rated at. When I ordered them I’d thought if a pair of PA-1’s were close, I’d get a second pair and bi-amp, but that doesn’t really give too much in the way of SPL, you’re still limited by your single amp wattage. Like you I’d still like to try another pair of PA-1’s, and I’m especially interested in whether the RMC-1 will let me actively bi-amp. What would probably be a good match are your XPA-1’s, but I’m done with big (heavy) amps — even though I have the perfect space for them — the PA-1’s look rather humorous in the big monoblock cubbies. So, I’ll keep them, but they could end up as Atmos channels in the Loft (if I didn’t have Airmotives I could use them with my DC-1). I really need at least double the power of the PA-1, more wouldn’t hurt. The sound is good and I love the efficiency and weight, makes me curious about the mAMP. For those reading this and interested in the PA-1’s, they’re very good, don’t let my situation put you off, they’re just not right for my speakers and room. I kinda knew that going in, but wanted to try anyway. Edit/Update — 7/25/2019: I’m still using the PA-1’s with my Maggies and just bought a second pair to bi-amp, but haven’t listened enough to write more about that. I still don’t think they’ll have enough power for every occasion, but I’m finding they’re powerful enough for most, and I still enjoy listening to them. Class D is not Deterring me, it’s actually quite Delightful! |
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Post by leonski on Oct 9, 2018 11:39:23 GMT -5
Yes, the PA-1 is probably a little 'shy' of powering nearly ANY Magnepan, even the MMG. As it turns out, ALL Magnepan speakers are roughly the same sensitivity! A friend of mine uses EMO Monoblocks (not XPA-1....a prior amp?) for the bass on his 20's. But he also has a Marchand crossover so is active. this get is most out of your amps. You might STILL get the PA-1 to work on your panels. But you'll need 3 per. Roadbloack? Active crossover might end up to be something like the MiniDSP 2x8 which is 2 in and 8 out....4 per channel. I think it can be configured as single ended OR balanced, but I'd have to check. Also? A couple other things: Current crossover? Do you duplicate or go out on a limb? Easy to do with Mini. And finally? What is the impedance of the bare Ribbon? www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/NgChaiSoon/mg201xo.gifHere is the reference sketch-O-matic of the 20.1 crossover. 3x of the PA-1 MAY work. Depends on several factors, not the least of which is the crossover frequencies which determine power distribution. AND not to forget? Just what IS the bare ribbon's impedance? Down to about 3 ohms, you MIGHT be ok or if the tweeter runs a little HOT? The insertion of a non-inductive 1 ohm resistor will certainly help. Or a pair in Parallel yielding 1/2 ohm......Either will help the PA-1 cope. If you want some further info? PM me and I'll get you over to a place where Frankenpans live as well as half a dozen REALLY expert panel guys who have done a LOT of stuff. Wendel communicates to that board thru one of the members, too. Don't forget? If you've got an EXTRA near-30 grand kicking around the new 30.7, a 2-piece panel (like the old Tympani) is now out to terrific reviews. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 10, 2018 5:25:21 GMT -5
leonski, I appreciate your enthusiasm, I see three options for my Maggies that I’m up for (without derailing this thread too much): 1. Stay with the passive crossover and monoblocks like the VTLs, the PA-1s, or a (bigger) player to be named later. 2. Stay with the passive crossover and bi-amp. When I first got the 20.1s I vertically bi-amped with a pair of Threshold 4000’s, they sounded pretty good. Maybe another pair of PA-1’s, probably something more powerful. 3. Actively bi-amp, don’t want to tear into the panels for tri-amping, and don’t want any little boxes either, just unmount the passive crossovers and plug in. I’d only do this if the RMC-1 makes bi-amping convenient, with or without an expansion module and with proper triggering. That’s likely the only configuration the PA-1’s might work well with too. It has to be clean, don’t really want to build anything else (maybe some cables 🤓) As for the 30.7s I think with the Credenza they’ll fit nicely, how about if I just send you the $30K to pick them up for me? I think garbulky wanted me to get a pair when they first came out, maybe I’ll send him $30K too and see who shows up first! 💴💰🤤💰💵 Actually I’ve had many Magnepans over the years, starting with MG-IIs (<$600 in about ‘74). Then got a second pair, then tri-amped them using the (4) IIs as bass panels with Tympani IIIs for mids and highs — that made for a massive wall of sound! 🔈🔈🔈 😍 🔈🔈🔈 Then moved to a smaller place and had some Dahlquist DQ-10s for a while until I bought my first house and traded something for some Tympani 1Ds ... think I had my first Threshold 4000 with those. Then the Bevridge Model 3’s until I got these, a lot of good speakers!
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Post by leonski on Oct 10, 2018 11:56:30 GMT -5
I'm on my way. My brother with the BIG pick-em-up truck is standing by. Wendel expects me to call first, but he'll meet me at the loading dock in White Bear Lake. When I give you the word? 1. Light BBQ 2. STEAK 3. Coupla' Beers. 4. Two Party, Post Dated, Out-Of-State checks NOT accepted! You've owned more panels than me, by far. I bought some MG-1 in the mid-late 80s some time from my partner at work. I kept 'em for nearly 20 years AND thru a rebuild back at the factory. Finances permitted and I went with the 1.6s....a good 2-way, but NO RIBBON tweeter. THAN I had the unfortunate luck to start reading Magnepan Users Group (MUG) and hearing about Peter Gunn and REAL wood frames, and the reason why. I hear you about being reluctant to pull the sock and gutt the internal crossover. That's a LOT of work, and you'll end up needing at least 3X Stereo Amps. Not to mention the MiniDSP in one of a couple flavors AND the time / research to start parsing thru various options. The good news with 20.x or 30.x level Maggies is you probably do NOT need a sub, unless you are a REAL Bass Head and movie watcher. I'd wire it differently than most. I'd have ONE stereo amp, something like the Parasound A21 of 400x2 @4 split between the 2 bass panels. Than an additional stereo amp PER PANEL, as a mid - tweet biamp. I'd need to know crossover frequencies before assigning power and 'guessing' at an amplifier. A total of 600 to 700 watts per panel should about get you evicted......from your TOWN. Because of phase shift issues due to output Zobel, I'd leave ANY 'D' amp to the mids and possibly the bass, were it large enough. I'm going to try to attach a 'thought experiment' I blocked out, for a one-box BIAMP solution including active crossover. This was using the nCore400 which seems to be the ONLY one available to the DIY crowd, the rest being OEM. Hypex also sells a nice SMPS to go with the amp. These boxes would be maybe 2000$ to 2500$ each, give or take. Attachments:
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Post by goodfellas27 on Feb 27, 2019 21:42:03 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 27, 2019 22:53:17 GMT -5
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wvs007
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 7
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Post by wvs007 on Mar 20, 2019 8:23:09 GMT -5
My PA-1s have been singing for a few months now. It is not my main system so it unfortunately plays 2nd fiddle in my house :-)
I have been using DC-1, Peachtree Audio Music Box and Nova150 and lately a W4S Mint as the preamp/dac and I'm still impressed by the sound quality. Soundstage is very open and lively, which makes this an enjoyable experience each time I sit down down to enjoy some music. At the moment it is linked with a Bluesound Node 2 and Dynaudio Focus 110 speakers via Tellurium cables. I sometimes use an Emotiva BasX S8 subwoofer as the Dynaudios can get too bassy in a small room.
As mentioned in an earlier post I think this is excellent value for money compared to W4S and BelCanto mono blocks!
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Post by seasoul on Apr 16, 2019 10:46:40 GMT -5
Now I have a Stealth PA-1. My system: DAC - SMSL M10 (connection via XLR), Audiovector QR-3 speaker systems. I am very impressed with these «little boxes». The sound is detailed, clear, controlled bass. Almost not heated. Very satisfied and recommend them!
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Post by bumpytrail on Oct 21, 2019 18:06:31 GMT -5
Has there been any information as to Emotiva selling a Class D multi-channel amp with a minimum of 200 watts a channel? Looking at downsizing my two XPA gen 1 amps, but want as much or more power. Looking into D-Sonic but too much money at this time for me. Thanks!
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PA-1 amps
Oct 21, 2019 18:19:21 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by emofrmcgy on Oct 21, 2019 18:19:21 GMT -5
Has there been any information as to Emotiva selling a Class D multi-channel amp with a minimum of 200 watts a channel? Looking at downsizing my two XPA gen 1 amps, but want as much or more power. Looking into D-Sonic but too much money at this time for me. Thanks! Would sure be nice.. |
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Post by leonski on Oct 21, 2019 18:27:19 GMT -5
Difference between 200 watts and 135 watts of the PA-1 is about 1.7db that's not HUGE.
If possible? BIAMP using something like a MiniDSP and a quad of the PA-1 amps. This will NET you a power increase and certainly
should be easier on your electric bill and 'heating' of the house. I don't mind the heating in winter, but in summer it places additional
stress on the AirCon system.
What is the sensitivity of your speakers? How loud is your 'habit'?
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Post by whitwye on Aug 21, 2020 22:40:22 GMT -5
Put two PA-1s on the height channels behind RSL G5s, which share all-channel stereo duties for music with Emotiva T1s on the floor fed by an A-300. The PA-1s bring more of the instruments through the RSLs than the A-700 previously on those channels, which could not keep up at volume with the A-300, naturally.
I suspect half the improvement may be from being able to go XLR from the pre-pro. These sound clearer than the A-700 even at low volume where there's headroom left, and a shade better than the equivalently powerful A-300, which I still like, at fuller volume. May get another for the center.
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Post by garbulky on Aug 22, 2020 14:15:22 GMT -5
Put two PA-1s on the height channels behind RSL G5s, which share all-channel stereo duties for music with Emotiva T1s on the floor fed by an A-300. The PA-1s bring more of the instruments through the RSLs than the A-700 previously on those channels, which could not keep up at volume with the A-300, naturally. I suspect half the improvement may be from being able to go XLR from the pre-pro. These sound clearer than the A-700 even at low volume where there's headroom left, and a shade better than the equivalently powerful A-300, which I still like, at fuller volume. May get another for the center. Agreed on all accounts. Imo they get close to my XPA-1 gen 2. Yeah there's some very small subtle differences between the two but honestly they get surprisingly close! The A-300, can't hang (though it doesn't sound bad of course). Do you know that your PA-1 is fully balanced? Most amps with XLR are not fully balanced. |
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PA-1 amps
Nov 27, 2020 11:15:02 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by davidl81 on Nov 27, 2020 11:15:02 GMT -5
So we’re the PA-1s part of the Black Friday sale? I got the email with them listed but they showed unavailable like 5 mins after I got the email, and on the Black Friday page for Emotiva they are not listed, but the SP-1 is. I wonder if it was a mistake, or if a bunch of PA-1s sold within a few mins of the email coming out.
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PA-1 amps
Nov 27, 2020 11:44:20 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by BigE on Nov 27, 2020 11:44:20 GMT -5
So we’re the PA-1s part of the Black Friday sale? I got the email with them listed but they showed unavailable like 5 mins after I got the email, and on the Black Friday page for Emotiva they are not listed, but the SP-1 is. I wonder if it was a mistake, or if a bunch of PA-1s sold within a few mins of the email coming out. I don't believe so. I've been checking all week and they've had none. I've also been on their email list to receive notification when it comes back in stock. Very discouraging. I'm about to pull trigger on class D elsewhere...case on order and balance in cart. |
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Post by daveczski65 on Nov 27, 2020 17:56:43 GMT -5
Very doubtful,as there are discontinued, only way u will get one is its a refurb.
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Post by creimes on Nov 27, 2020 19:14:18 GMT -5
Nick mentioned they had only a handful and someone bought them all... that limey bastard  $199 was awesome for that one person lol |
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Post by davidl81 on Nov 27, 2020 19:49:17 GMT -5
Nick mentioned they had only a handful and someone bought them all... that limey bastard $199 was awesome for that one person lol Honestly should have had a limit of 2, but oh well. I didn’t need them, but at $200 each they would have been nice to push my outdoor deftechs over the internal amp on my SR7010. I have three PA-1s running my LCR in my living room and I’ve been super impressed by them. Super small, cool, and really push my Martin Logan Theos speakers remarkably well. |
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$199 was awesome for that one person lol