|
|
Post by davidl81 on Jul 19, 2018 10:32:02 GMT -5
I posted this on AVS, but I also wanted some input here as everyone has been really helpful and active on the forum. I am looking at this as a "stop-gap" option to get 4k in my theater room until the RMC-1 comes out.
I need some help on the differences between my current Marantz SR7009 AVR and the AV8802a. I have the SR7009 right now, but i need to upgrade to a true 4k solution. Of course I know the SR7009 is an AVR with internal amps and the AV8802a is pre/pro (I have all of the external amps I need), and I know the AV8802a supports HDCP 2.2, and DTS-X. What I am really trying to figure out is will the AV8802a "sound" better than the SR7009. Are there differences in the DAC or any other internal component that would allow the AV8802a to preform better (Especially in a 2 channel setting) than my current SR7009. Full disclosure I have been waiting for the Emotiva RMC-1, but as that looks like it might not be ready till 2019 or so I am willing to buy a AV8802a (I can get for +/- $1700) and keep it for a year or so until the RMC-1 is out and has a chance to work the bugs out. My usage mix is about 60% movies 40% 2 channel music. Any input would be helpful, even if it is people on here who have the AV8802a and have been happy with it.
Overall I find the SR7009 really good for home theater, but very lacking in 2 channel performance. It very well could be an Audssey issue which would be the same issue on the AV8802a.
Thanks,
David
|
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Jul 19, 2018 10:45:10 GMT -5
I owned the AV7702 for about 5 months and sold it it as I found it lacking for 2ch as well, I once owned the XMC-1 which I had to sell for financial reasons but I found it really good for 2ch and HT use and the Anthem receiver I currently use is much better for 2ch than the AV7702 I had and ARC seems a step above as well. The best results I've had were with both Dirac and ARC for room correction.
Not sure why but the Marantz unit was fine for movies(surround) but IMO and for me in my room and my ears was just lame for 2ch music. If I had the money to do so I would go for a Anthem AVM60 but I don't have the disposable cash for such a thing right now.
Chad
|
|
|
|
Post by thrillcat on Jul 19, 2018 10:57:02 GMT -5
I've not owned either, but every Marantz AVR I've owned has fallen right in line with both your experiences. Fantastic sounding for surround, not so great for stereo.
Which is ironic, considering I use a Marantz 2235b stereo receiver for my turntable upstairs. Go figure.
|
|
|
|
Post by vcautokid on Jul 19, 2018 11:06:01 GMT -5
The AV8802a is the way to go if you must choose. Isolating the Preamplifier stages away from the power amplifier is huge. Also there is more optimization since there are no power amplifiers present. I have a friend who got rid of his Marantz AVR for this processor and is doing well. He is never going back. I have heard it, and I enjoyed very much. Just my 2 cents.
|
|
|
|
Post by davidl81 on Jul 19, 2018 11:16:45 GMT -5
The AV8802a is the way to go if you must choose. Isolating the Preamplifier stages away from the power amplifier is huge. Also there is more optimization since there are no power amplifiers present. I have a friend who got rid of his Marantz AVR for this processor and is doing well. He is never going back. I have heard it, and I enjoyed very much. Just my 2 cents. It's is not really a matter of choosing between the AVR and the AV8802a, but more of is it worth it to upgrade from the SR7009 to the AV8802a. When I read things like "isolating the Preamplifier stages away from the power amplifier is huge", I want to know what that actually means. Is it a situation where by the processor sharing a power supply with internal amps there is some cross talk or other factors? In my head IF the SR7009 and the AV8802a all have the same internal main logic processors and DAC's then really they should sound virtually identical if both being ran through the same external power amps. So what I am really digging at is are there upgraded processors, DAC's etc in the AV8802a versus the AVR or some other technical reason why the dedicated pre/pro would "sound" better than the AVR. |
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Jul 19, 2018 11:19:56 GMT -5
The AV8802a is the way to go if you must choose. Isolating the Preamplifier stages away from the power amplifier is huge. Also there is more optimization since there are no power amplifiers present. I have a friend who got rid of his Marantz AVR for this processor and is doing well. He is never going back. I have heard it, and I enjoyed very much. Just my 2 cents. My AV7702 was just this but after owning it I can say I will never go the route of a Marantz processor again having better experiences with Sherbourn, Emotiva and even a Anthem AVR and also I was without mine for almost 2 months as it needed service and half that time was going back and forth with emails to customer support before I even got an RMA # some of the worst CS I have ever had with any product period, just my experience of course but it totally turned me off of their product and like I mentioned I have had better 2ch sound from all the other brands I have owned, heck my Sherbourn 7020C4 sounded much better for music  |
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Jul 19, 2018 12:04:15 GMT -5
I don't know the detailed answer, but I can paint you some broad strokes.
The 8802a and 8805 are in a different league than all other Marantz processors. They both use what a magazine might call more premium components inside.
Everyone on this forum keeps talking about other Marantz products. They are not the same.
When the 8802a first came out, Sound and Vision boasted about the new innards, and raved about how much better it sounded than the previous model or any other models. They also named it the product of the year, and it got 5 stars in every category except value at 4.5. It beat out the XMC-1 (which was not even picked as a years best). I'm not saying to take S&V as gospel, I'm just reporting what they said.
Google Sound & Vision Top Picks 2015 and you can read the full review. I'd find it for you and link it but Im on my cell phone right now. But it lists what is upgraded, and its quite a bit.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Jul 19, 2018 12:07:57 GMT -5
Also, have you not tried turning off room correction with 2 channel? I don't care how good Arc or Dirac are, I'm like 99% sure I'd turn them off for 2 channel listening. Although my room doesn't really need much correcting if you ask me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Jul 19, 2018 12:45:22 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by cwt on Jul 19, 2018 13:41:03 GMT -5
2 things jump out to me David. This is a stopgap solution and you are mindful of the money otherwise you would go with the current flagship 8805  The change over cost of a NAD t758 would be more palatable possibly when the RMC1 is finally here. It has a full set of pre outs for 7.1.4 so you can use your power amps now in anticipation . And it will give you a taste of dirac in the meantime . Dirac can do good things for 2ch as it phase aligns your speakers drivers in the time domain ; its not just for a flat room response As datasat once said; I got a cheaper solution to tie me over and Ime confident I wont lose a wad of cash when the time comes for the RMC1  The 758 has gotten some nice reviews ..And anthems ARC is top notch as well' the current iterations are superior from last gen . |
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Jul 19, 2018 13:53:09 GMT -5
I don't know the detailed answer, but I can paint you some broad strokes. The 8802a and 8805 are in a different league than all other Marantz processors. They both use what a magazine might call more premium components inside. Everyone on this forum keeps talking about other Marantz products. They are not the same. When the 8802a first came out, Sound and Vision boasted about the new innards, and raved about how much better it sounded than the previous model or any other models. They also named it the product of the year, and it got 5 stars in every category except value at 4.5. It beat out the XMC-1 (which was not even picked as a years best). I'm not saying to take S&V as gospel, I'm just reporting what they said. Google Sound & Vision Top Picks 2015 and you can read the full review. I'd find it for you and link it but Im on my cell phone right now. But it lists what is upgraded, and its quite a bit. Well that's pretty brutal that a $2500(new) processor would sound that bad in 2ch but hey I guess they want people to spend $5000 on their flagship right  |
|
|
|
Post by davidl81 on Jul 19, 2018 14:31:35 GMT -5
Well I just bid on an open box one on eBay for $1699 from world wide stereo. It comes with the full factory warranty. I’m the first bidder and the auction ends in 20 hours. If I get it then it was meant to be, if someone over bids me then oh well. I looked at the NAD unit, but I need two HDMI outputs for a zone 2 tv on the patio and the NAD only has one output.
Actually one cool thing this AV8802 has is the HDMI outputs are independent, meaning I can watch a movie in the media room and something else on the patio. I doubt I ever do that, but’s it’s a cool upgrade from the SR7009. Hopefully I don’t like this Marantz too much as if I am happy with it I may not see a reason the get the RMC-1.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Jul 19, 2018 15:07:18 GMT -5
I don't know the detailed answer, but I can paint you some broad strokes. The 8802a and 8805 are in a different league than all other Marantz processors. They both use what a magazine might call more premium components inside. Everyone on this forum keeps talking about other Marantz products. They are not the same. When the 8802a first came out, Sound and Vision boasted about the new innards, and raved about how much better it sounded than the previous model or any other models. They also named it the product of the year, and it got 5 stars in every category except value at 4.5. It beat out the XMC-1 (which was not even picked as a years best). I'm not saying to take S&V as gospel, I'm just reporting what they said. Google Sound & Vision Top Picks 2015 and you can read the full review. I'd find it for you and link it but Im on my cell phone right now. But it lists what is upgraded, and its quite a bit. Well that's pretty brutal that a $2500(new) processor would sound that bad in 2ch but hey I guess they want people to spend $5000 on their flagship right Well I think your definition of "bad" is highly extreme and over cooked. But yeah, I don't get it either. With time perhaps it will all trickle down. Dunno. Better parts do cost money. The appeal of the 8802a right now is that they can be had at prices lower than the XMC, and if all you ever plan to do is 4 height channels, it could last a person a long long time. |
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Jul 19, 2018 15:12:21 GMT -5
Well that's pretty brutal that a $2500(new) processor would sound that bad in 2ch but hey I guess they want people to spend $5000 on their flagship right Well I think your definition of "bad" is highly extreme and over cooked. But yeah, I don't get it either. With time perhaps it will all trickle down. Dunno. Better parts do cost money. The appeal of the 8802a right now is that they can be had at prices lower than the XMC, and if all you ever plan to do is 4 height channels, it could last a person a long long time. Of all the years I have listened to music with high end gear I have never heard music sound as "bad" as it did through the 7702, trust me I don't have a hate on for Marantz I'm sure they make great stuff but at what cost ?? I mean the 7702 is by no means cheap, but I'm happy now with the Anthem, wish I could go for the AVM60 but in all honesty what would I need it for as I don't have a 4k projector nor an Atmos setup so it would basically be money wasted Chad |
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Jul 19, 2018 15:15:36 GMT -5
Well I just bid on an open box one on eBay for $1699 from world wide stereo. It comes with the full factory warranty. I’m the first bidder and the auction ends in 20 hours. If I get it then it was meant to be, if someone over bids me then oh well. I looked at the NAD unit, but I need two HDMI outputs for a zone 2 tv on the patio and the NAD only has one output. Actually one cool thing this AV8802 has is the HDMI outputs are independent, meaning I can watch a movie in the media room and something else on the patio. I doubt I ever do that, but’s it’s a cool upgrade from the SR7009. Hopefully I don’t like this Marantz too much as if I am happy with it I may not see a reason the get the RMC-1. Hopefully you get it and it turns out to be better than your SR7009, I've just lost all faith in their pre/pro's from my experience with them. Does your 7009 sound dull and lifeless ? that was my experience with the 7702, music just had no life to it which i just wasn't used to. Chad |
|
|
|
Post by davidl81 on Jul 19, 2018 15:26:55 GMT -5
Well I just bid on an open box one on eBay for $1699 from world wide stereo. It comes with the full factory warranty. I’m the first bidder and the auction ends in 20 hours. If I get it then it was meant to be, if someone over bids me then oh well. I looked at the NAD unit, but I need two HDMI outputs for a zone 2 tv on the patio and the NAD only has one output. Actually one cool thing this AV8802 has is the HDMI outputs are independent, meaning I can watch a movie in the media room and something else on the patio. I doubt I ever do that, but’s it’s a cool upgrade from the SR7009. Hopefully I don’t like this Marantz too much as if I am happy with it I may not see a reason the get the RMC-1. Hopefully you get it and it turns out to be better than your SR7009, I've just lost all faith in their pre/pro's from my experience with them. Does your 7009 sound dull and lifeless ? that was my experience with the 7702, music just had no life to it which i just wasn't used to. Chad Yeah I am not impressed with my SR7009 in music and it makes me pretty nervous on the AV8802a. Worst case is I buy the 8802a and it is the same as my SR7009 except I get the 4k video. I can sell the SR7009 for about $600 net so my "cost" for the AV8802a will be about $1100. If I am not happy with it I can just hang on to it till the RMC-1 is out and upgrade to that, and sell the AV8802a for maybe $1500 net and not really be out all that much money. If I end up being unexpectedly impressed by the AV8802a I may hold off on the RMC (I don't think I will ever do more than 7.1.4 since the theater room is fairly small) and sell my 40% upgrade card can re-coup some of my money that way. |
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Jul 19, 2018 15:36:40 GMT -5
Well I think your definition of "bad" is highly extreme and over cooked. But yeah, I don't get it either. With time perhaps it will all trickle down. Dunno. Better parts do cost money. The appeal of the 8802a right now is that they can be had at prices lower than the XMC, and if all you ever plan to do is 4 height channels, it could last a person a long long time. Of all the years I have listened to music with high end gear I have never heard music sound as "bad" as it did through the 7702, trust me I don't have a hate on for Marantz I'm sure they make great stuff but at what cost ?? I mean the 7702 is by no means cheap, but I'm happy now with the Anthem, wish I could go for the AVM60 but in all honesty what would I need it for as I don't have a 4k projector nor an Atmos setup so it would basically be money wasted Chad If there is one downside that I have read about with Marantz over the years, its that it seems their products vary product by product. I started noticing it like 20 years ago. People would swear by one CD player, but the next one sucked and so on. Very home run and strike out kind of stuff. Perhaps the 7702 was a swing and a miss? By most accounts the 8802a is an out of the park home run. I'd like to tell you that myself, but alas, mine is still sitting on the shelf doing nothing. 😭 |
|
|
|
Post by emofrmcgy on Jul 19, 2018 17:29:22 GMT -5
Well I just bid on an open box one on eBay for $1699 from world wide stereo. It comes with the full factory warranty. I’m the first bidder and the auction ends in 20 hours. If I get it then it was meant to be, if someone over bids me then oh well. I looked at the NAD unit, but I need two HDMI outputs for a zone 2 tv on the patio and the NAD only has one output. Actually one cool thing this AV8802 has is the HDMI outputs are independent, meaning I can watch a movie in the media room and something else on the patio. I doubt I ever do that, but’s it’s a cool upgrade from the SR7009. Hopefully I don’t like this Marantz too much as if I am happy with it I may not see a reason the get the RMC-1. Hopefully you get it and it turns out to be better than your SR7009, I've just lost all faith in their pre/pro's from my experience with them. Does your 7009 sound dull and lifeless ? that was my experience with the 7702, music just had no life to it which i just wasn't used to. Chad Did your xmc click and pop and seem like a complete bug show? Because that was my experience with it. One day I’ll get the chance to listen to the actual high end marantz. My 7702mk2 wasn’t nearly as lively as my sherbourn or xmc but was definitely a whole lot more stable than them. I’m sorry you had such bad experience with marantz. |
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,495
|
Post by LCSeminole on Jul 19, 2018 17:55:19 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Jul 19, 2018 19:33:55 GMT -5
Yep. And Amazon and Crutchfield have them brand new for $2500. That makes it a direct competitor for the XMC. When it was $4000 no way. But at the same price, hell yes. It does 4 height channels now, and not for more money like the XMC. It has a crapload more useful features, and is very stable without glitches. On the downside, if you rely on room correction, all accounts say Dirac is better. For me, both lack inputs and outputs I want, but they sort of wash. And since the 8802a has 3 switchable HDMI outputs, I can work arounds. As for 2 channel or over all SQ, that's highly debateable, and probably all about personal taste. I'd bet if you did a real test with 100 people, it would be close to 50/50 with 2 channel, and no difference with 7.1.4. So right now is a great time to buy an 8802a, IF you only ever want 4 height channels, and don't live or die by room correction. No processor is perfect, they all have ups and downs. |
|
The change over cost of a NAD t758 would be more palatable possibly when the RMC1 is finally here. It has a full set of pre outs for 7.1.4 so you can use your power amps now in anticipation . And it will give you a taste of dirac in the meantime . Dirac can do good things for 2ch as it phase aligns your speakers drivers in the time domain ; its not just for a flat room response 
The 758 has gotten some nice reviews ..And anthems ARC is top notch as well' the current iterations are superior from last gen .
