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Post by chaosrv on Sept 4, 2018 16:11:46 GMT -5
I'm currently in the market for a new DAC (with or without a built-in streaming client)
Without getting into specifics about the actual hardware, I have it narrowed down to two choices. Both have their trade offs and honestly, they are very different in terms of design & functionality.
Ultimately, the deciding factor between the two may be as simple as if I will want to have DSD support or not.
I'm purposely avoiding naming the two DACs as I am not seeking opinions on the companies, the hardware, or alternatives. I just want to know how you feel about DSD playback. Not as a feature that "every DAC should have" but rather if you actually use DSD or not and if so, how frequently.
My current DAC, a Schiit Gumby, doesn't support DSD so I haven't had much experience with the format but perhaps I am missing something? Then again, perhaps I'm not.
Constructive feedback is always appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Sept 4, 2018 16:57:14 GMT -5
A friend of mine has the Teac NT-503 and is very happy with it. It supports up to DSD256 (AKA 4xDSD). It uses two Asahi Kasei Microdevices AK4490EQs in "Dual monaural" mode. Note that the new Emotiva RMC-1 will be using 16 AK4490ENs (the "mobile" version of the AK4490EQ) in exactly the same way. Although it's apparently only going to support DSD128 and only over PCM ( DoP), at least for USB. Casey |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Sept 4, 2018 17:10:35 GMT -5
I have a few DSD files.... and several copies of ISO RIPs of SACDs. (I've never bothered to go through the hoops necessary to RIP an SACD... but plenty of other folks I know have.)
From my experience, the DSD layer of hybrid SACDs often sounds significantly different then the Red Book CD layer. Likewise, the SACD version of an album often sounds quite different than the high-res PCM download or CD version.
However, when I convert the DSD files to 24/96k PCM files, they sound exactly the same as they did as DSD files. (So, in other words, they were in fact mastered differently, but the difference was NOT due to their being DSD files.)
I don't recall even encountering a DSD file which sounded better than its PCM counterpart.... but which "lost that special something" when I converted it directly to PCM using a good quality converter. Note that not all player software, or all DACs, play PCM and equally well... and not all converters do an audibly perfect conversion.
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Post by Loop 7 on Sept 4, 2018 18:14:43 GMT -5
I sometimes think DSD is more of a non-starter than MQA. Realize these are apples and oranges but there are so few DSD albums available.
By "so few" I mean probably under 50,000 DSD tracks versus the 50+ million tracks available in standard resolution.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Sept 4, 2018 18:27:23 GMT -5
Yes, that may be true regarding how little there is out there in terms of DSD. The only reason I know about it at all is because I have a nut job friend who's become a fanatic and bought tons of DSD material. As far as what I buy, I go for 96kHz/24bit if I can find it, but as KeithL has often noted and I can attest to: good mastering wins out over everything. Casey |
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Post by jdmusante on Sept 4, 2018 19:15:33 GMT -5
Interesting subject. I own a few SACD titles but not a connoisseur of DSD by any means. I read this article last week. The guy who wrote it posts on AVS all the time. I enjoyed the history portion of where DSD came from. Understanding DSD to LPCM Conversion
But to answer your question, not very important at all. Jason |
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Post by Cogito on Sept 4, 2018 20:02:35 GMT -5
IF I were to buy a new DAC, I would probably choose one with DSD capabilities, just because. However, DSD is not a compelling reason to upgrade.
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Post by audiobill on Sept 5, 2018 19:00:13 GMT -5
Keep in mind that if hi res and dsd don’t matter, multibit dacs sure do.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 5, 2018 19:18:43 GMT -5
I took way too much DSD back in college - I'm done with that stuff.
Mark
(wait - I think I'm off by a letter...)
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Post by novisnick on Sept 5, 2018 19:22:13 GMT -5
I took way too much DSD back in college - I'm done with that stuff. Mark (wait - I think I'm off by a letter...) |
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Post by annjones13 on Sept 5, 2018 19:27:27 GMT -5
I took way too much DSD back in college - I'm done with that stuff. Mark (wait - I think I'm off by a letter...) I'm not sure I actually survived... What times we had... Ann |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 5, 2018 20:17:34 GMT -5
as we used to say..."dude...."
Mark
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Post by jmilton on Sept 5, 2018 21:21:51 GMT -5
I’m currently running DSD from a McIntosh MCD600 directly into my 2 UPA1s via balanced analog. I find it to sound stunningly open, clear and a bigger soundstage when compared to the CD version. Even my wife comments on its sound and she never hears a difference in any of my equipment.
I have over 200 SACD and DVD-A (and a few DTS audio) discs. Unfortunately the Mc is stereo out only.😐
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Post by brubacca on Sept 6, 2018 4:41:44 GMT -5
I forgot DSD existed until you posted this poll. Seriously. All the recent talk has been MQA.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Sept 6, 2018 15:06:03 GMT -5
That is a very interesting article... and I think it includes more information about DSD than I've ever seen in one place before.
I would throw in a kudo that some of the information is slightly dated.... for example, one or two modern recorders do directly record DSD nowadays. I should also note that SACD players still won't let you have a digital copy of what's on the disc - which is considered to be a valuable copy protection feature (and it's part of the standard itself). Note that this applies to SACD discs specifically... and NOT to the DSD format itself... so it does not apply to DSD files you download.
One other thing he didn't mention, which is sort of important when trying to compare, is that the conversion between DSD and PCM is not exactly.... bit perfect.... nor can it be. Therefore, when you convert between PCM sample rates, the conversion can theoretically be exact but, whenever you convert from DSD to PCM or vice versa, there will always be some filtering involved. As a result, whenever you convert from one to the other, there will almost always be a tiny difference, which may well be audible. (Even the best studio converters have various configuration options - none is simply "convert exactly".)
Interesting subject. I own a few SACD titles but not a connoisseur of DSD by any means. I read this article last week. The guy who wrote it posts on AVS all the time. I enjoyed the history portion of where DSD came from. Understanding DSD to LPCM Conversion
But to answer your question, not very important at all. Jason |
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