KeithL
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Posts: 10,276
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Post by KeithL on Sept 27, 2018 10:36:20 GMT -5
Just to throw in a bit of information here. In the old days, incandescent light bulbs had a "life expectancy"; they were actually expected to "wear out" after running for a certain number of hours. And, under the same conditions, most light bulbs of a given type last for about the same amount of time.
LEDs, like most modern electronic components, don't have a life expectancy; they don't "wear out"; instead they "occasionally fail". As with most electronic components, you can define "the average number of LEDs that will fail in five years"; but you really can't define "when they usually wear out".
So, in other words, we expect a given LED to last pretty much forever, but we also know that a certain number of them will not. (The spec is called MTBF - "mean time between failure".)
And, as you might guess, sometimes a specific batch, or a specific type, may fail to live up to predictions. In the case of a part like an LED, the manufacturer has a spec for that number, but we don't keep track of them... because there are a lot of parts in the world... and there's not a lot we can do about it. In general it is NOT a situation where you can simply pay a few cents more for an LED that really will probably last longer.
I can tell you that, in the very general sense, "simple" single color red or green LEDs tend to last almost forever, while blue or white LEDs, and blue/red dual color LEDs, are more likely to fail sooner. (But people really like blue. When you decided what color to paint your living room, I'll bet you didn't check to see which colors fade faster either.)
I should note, however, that the LED on the Airmotiv speakers is really just an indicator light. The speaker will cheerfully run without it; and, if the LED dies, it is NOT a symptom that something else is likely to fail. It's just a random parts failure.
I called Emotiva. To do the repair, I have to send the speaker back. The repair is free since it's under warranty. If it was out of warranty, it would have cost their flat fee of $140 for the repair. The representative suggested that at that point, I take it to an electronics shop to repair the LED, as that would likely be cheaper. Normally I would have to pay for shipping. But they made a special exemption where they are providing the shipping. I asked for a guess as to how much shipping was going to be, when they first said I had to pay for shipping. They started to look up a ballpark number, and then just decided to give me this exemption. Given the weight of the item, I wouldn't be surprised if shipping would have been $20 - $30 at least. I also asked how long the LEDs are supposed to last. I didn't get a direct answer, they just said sometimes they see them go out quicker than expected. I said I liked the product, but was hoping I wouldn't have to start having maintenance issues with it. I had used my previous speakers for 17 years, with no issues. Just near the end, something must have gotten loose and the subwoofer started rattling. It's too bad the LED isn't something that can be repaired easily by an end user. Even if that is a maintenance issue, it's still easier if it's something I can fix without having to send it in. I have to give them credit for their support so far, though. Let's just hope that I don't need to call their support that often. |
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Post by nuraman00 on Sept 27, 2018 22:48:08 GMT -5
Just to throw in a bit of information here. In the old days, incandescent light bulbs had a "life expectancy"; they were actually expected to "wear out" after running for a certain number of hours. And, under the same conditions, most light bulbs of a given type last for about the same amount of time.
LEDs, like most modern electronic components, don't have a life expectancy; they don't "wear out"; instead they "occasionally fail". As with most electronic components, you can define "the average number of LEDs that will fail in five years"; but you really can't define "when they usually wear out".
So, in other words, we expect a given LED to last pretty much forever, but we also know that a certain number of them will not. (The spec is called MTBF - "mean time between failure".)
And, as you might guess, sometimes a specific batch, or a specific type, may fail to live up to predictions. In the case of a part like an LED, the manufacturer has a spec for that number, but we don't keep track of them... because there are a lot of parts in the world... and there's not a lot we can do about it. In general it is NOT a situation where you can simply pay a few cents more for an LED that really will probably last longer.
I can tell you that, in the very general sense, "simple" single color red or green LEDs tend to last almost forever, while blue or white LEDs, and blue/red dual color LEDs, are more likely to fail sooner. (But people really like blue. When you decided what color to paint your living room, I'll bet you didn't check to see which colors fade faster either.)
I should note, however, that the LED on the Airmotiv speakers is really just an indicator light. The speaker will cheerfully run without it; and, if the LED dies, it is NOT a symptom that something else is likely to fail. It's just a random parts failure.
I called Emotiva. To do the repair, I have to send the speaker back. The repair is free since it's under warranty. If it was out of warranty, it would have cost their flat fee of $140 for the repair. The representative suggested that at that point, I take it to an electronics shop to repair the LED, as that would likely be cheaper. Normally I would have to pay for shipping. But they made a special exemption where they are providing the shipping. I asked for a guess as to how much shipping was going to be, when they first said I had to pay for shipping. They started to look up a ballpark number, and then just decided to give me this exemption. Given the weight of the item, I wouldn't be surprised if shipping would have been $20 - $30 at least. I also asked how long the LEDs are supposed to last. I didn't get a direct answer, they just said sometimes they see them go out quicker than expected. I said I liked the product, but was hoping I wouldn't have to start having maintenance issues with it. I had used my previous speakers for 17 years, with no issues. Just near the end, something must have gotten loose and the subwoofer started rattling. It's too bad the LED isn't something that can be repaired easily by an end user. Even if that is a maintenance issue, it's still easier if it's something I can fix without having to send it in. I have to give them credit for their support so far, though. Let's just hope that I don't need to call their support that often.
Thanks for the explanation about LEDs.
Yeah, it still works without the LED. I like the indicator light though, and since it's under warranty, want to try and get it fixed.
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 7, 2018 21:14:24 GMT -5
I looked at the non OEM box I had. It was a bit too deep.
I don't want to take any chances.
So I ordered 2 boxes. There's free shipping if the order is > $49, so that's why I ordered a 2nd box.
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 27, 2018 14:18:55 GMT -5
I just got this email from them (sent yesterday).
They are closed during the weekends so I can't call and ask them about it.
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Great news! Your service has been completed. Your unit was inspected, and repacked for its journey back to you.
Our service technician found the following issue:
AFTER replacing LED, unit was in Listening Test, and failed: static noises coming from tweeter, so unity was assigned to me for noise reduction repair.
Spent over 4 hours attempting repair without result, so am replacing speaker with a ZERO hour refurbished unit that tests good.
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 27, 2018 14:43:22 GMT -5
It sucks that I went from having a product with 3 more years of warranty on it, to a refurbished one with 90 days.
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Post by Soup on Oct 27, 2018 15:05:33 GMT -5
If not happy with solution, a quick call on Monday to Emotiva will get things right! |
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 27, 2018 18:50:52 GMT -5
If not happy with solution, a quick call on Monday to Emotiva will get things right! <script async="" src="moz-extension://11751322-4531-4ec6-860c-2492a14cbc7d/web/libs/ciuvo-addon-sdk.min.js"></script>
We'll see what they say and do.
What is that script supposed to be, at the end of your post?
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Post by Soup on Oct 28, 2018 12:29:59 GMT -5
never figured out why that happens to my posts sometimes.....
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 29, 2018 8:58:36 GMT -5
I tried calling them just now. I'm getting a message that they are either at lunch or in a meeting, even though it's during their normal business hours.
Yet a minute ago, they sent me an email with a tracking number.
Hold on! I want to find out what actually happened.
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Post by novisnick on Oct 29, 2018 9:11:03 GMT -5
I tried calling them just now. I'm getting a message that they are either at lunch or in a meeting, even though it's during their normal business hours. Yet a minute ago, they sent me an email with a tracking number. Hold on! I want to find out what actually happened. Monday morning meetings are bery normal. They’re there working! Try back in a bit. 👍 |
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 29, 2018 9:32:51 GMT -5
Ok, they answered the phone this time.
They don't know why my original unit was producing static. One theory the repair person had was that it might have been cold in the UPS warehouse, and maybe with the temperature change and humidity in Florida, it might have done something. But it's just a theory.
The refurbished unit they are sending me still has my original warranty. The email had said 90 days. But they honor whichever is longer. In my case, it's my original warranty, so I have 3 more years left. I just sent them an email to ask them to confirm in writing, what the repair person said over the phone.
He said that the unit they are sending me has 0 hours of use, because the original owner received it, and it didn't work, so he send it back right away. It turns out that there was a wire disconnected, so they repaired it.
He also said he guessed that when he sent that email on Friday afternoon, he thought I'd be confused, because I sent in the unit for a LED repair, and now I was getting a new unit, so he figured I'd be wondering what happened.
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Post by nuraman00 on Dec 13, 2018 3:59:58 GMT -5
Now my left Airmotiv 6s is flickering.
When the old right one did that, it was about 2 weeks before it died.
Based on my experience with how they had to send me a 0 hour replacement when I sent the right one in for repair, to change the LED, I don't know if I should send my left one in, if/when it goes out.
Maybe sometime later, when things are calmer.
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Chris
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 424
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Post by Chris on Mar 4, 2019 11:11:57 GMT -5
My Blue LED just went out on my Airmotiv as well. I can easily replace the LED myself. Can Emotiva provide the spec for the part or send me replacement? It's like a 10 cent part! Shipping a heavy speaker around is waste of time and money for everybody. I've soldered LEDs myself before. Long leg is positive, etc. Thanks in advance for help.
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Post by mgbpuff on Mar 4, 2019 11:25:46 GMT -5
Just a thought - Did anyone ever think that putting electronics inside a box with vibrating transducers and extreme pressure transients and perhaps limited ventilation might not be a truly excellent solution?
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,276
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Post by KeithL on Mar 4, 2019 12:35:09 GMT -5
The LED in the Airmotiv speakers is actually a red/blue bi-color LED (the red is only used if the speaker amplifier goes into protect - which almost never happens). It also is glued in place.
We really don't recommend that customers change them.
But, if you REALLY wanted to, you could use a standard blue LED, facing the correct direction, and it would work. (Note that this would count as an unauthorized repair.)
(As you can tell - we really prefer for you to let us fix them  .)
My Blue LED just went out on my Airmotiv as well. I can easily replace the LED myself. Can Emotiva provide the spec for the part or send me replacement? It's like a 10 cent part! Shipping a heavy speaker around is waste of time and money for everybody. I've soldered LEDs myself before. Long leg is positive, etc. Thanks in advance for help. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,276
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Post by KeithL on Mar 4, 2019 12:37:36 GMT -5
All else being equal you would be right... but then there are also benefits to putting the amps right next to the drivers with really short wires and matching electronics. However, for better or worse, blue LEDs are also more prone to "mechanical" failure than the other colors (presumably something to do with their internal construction).
Just a thought - Did anyone ever think that putting electronics inside a box with vibrating transducers and extreme pressure transients and perhaps limited ventilation might not be a truly excellent solution? |
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Post by nuraman00 on Mar 6, 2019 15:42:29 GMT -5
My Blue LED just went out on my Airmotiv as well. I can easily replace the LED myself. Can Emotiva provide the spec for the part or send me replacement? It's like a 10 cent part! Shipping a heavy speaker around is waste of time and money for everybody. I've soldered LEDs myself before. Long leg is positive, etc. Thanks in advance for help. I sent it to Emotiva because they made an exception and gave me a pre-paid shipping label. I agree that shipping a heavy speaker around is expensive. I had to send my left speaker a few weeks ago, because it started hissing. I didn't get a pre-paid shipping label this time. It cost $79 to ship, although that was partly because I said the declared value was $250. If I had said it was $100 or less, then it would have been around $70 to ship. I don't think provide replacement parts and send them do you. They do say that you can go to your own electronics repair shop, though. |
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Post by sahmen on Jan 6, 2020 9:44:02 GMT -5
The LED in the Airmotiv speakers is actually a red/blue bi-color LED (the red is only used if the speaker amplifier goes into protect - which almost never happens). It also is glued in place.
We really don't recommend that customers change them.
But, if you REALLY wanted to, you could use a standard blue LED, facing the correct direction, and it would work. (Note that this would count as an unauthorized repair.)
(As you can tell - we really prefer for you to let us fix them .)
My Blue LED just went out on my Airmotiv as well. I can easily replace the LED myself. Can Emotiva provide the spec for the part or send me replacement? It's like a 10 cent part! Shipping a heavy speaker around is waste of time and money for everybody. I've soldered LEDs myself before. Long leg is positive, etc. Thanks in advance for help. , what about the fuses... Instructions in the manual of the Airmotiv 6s do not seem to mind the idea of the end user changing the fuse, but they do not provide the correct specs for the fuse. They just say " ALWAYS REPLACE IT WITH ONE OF THE SAME SIZE, RATING, AND TYPE, NEVER USE A FUSE OF HIGHER RATING," but without specifically stating what that correct size, rating, and type are, or ought to be. My Airmotiv 5s and 6s pairs are both working great, so I do not want to open them to find out what the specs of their fuses are... Is there anyway you (or any lounge member) could let me know what those specs are... i am particularly interested in the size, amperage rating, and blow time (fast or slow) of each fuse. I am assuming there is only one fuse I need to worry about for each Aimotiv powered speaker unit. If that is wrong, kindly let me know, Thanks. |
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