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Post by Casey Leedom on Oct 1, 2018 12:34:50 GMT -5
So my crazy friend Bill has just spent an absurd amount of money (~$1,500) to replace his Raspberry Pi RoPieee Distribution Roon Bridge solution (~$65) feeding into his Teac NT-503 DAC with an SOtM sMS-200ultra Neo. He claims that with no other change, USB Cables, etc. kept the same, that he hears a "Dramatic Difference". Since we're dealing with Digital Data (and the USB Cable as a possible source of Data Corruption is the same), I assume that the USB Input section on the otherwise quite nice Teac NT-503 DAC, is complete sh**. Maybe it isn't organically isolating the electrical signals coming in off the USB Input, maybe it isn't performing asynchronous reclocking of the input data. I suppose the Raspberry Pi's USB Output could be corrupting lots of its Output Packets ... But the problem is, the Teac doesn't expose any kind of USB Link Statistics, or internal statistics from the Teac's internal Asahi Kasei Microdevices dual-monaural AK4490EQ DACs. So we have no way of knowing what's going on. But this lack of solid data isn't unique to the Teac: I don't know of a single Audio DAC that does offer data like this. Why not? If I had a DAC that told me things like the rate of USB CRC errors indicating Corrupt Packets, or data from the internal DAC Circuitry complaining about Digital Data not being supplied in time, etc., that would give me something to work with in terms of understanding problem areas. The cheapest 10¢ Ethernet NIC Chip has Link Statistics counters like this. Why is this? Is it the case that USB and DAC Chips don't tend to offer this kind of information? Or is it an issue of Audio companies not wanting to expose such information? Casey
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Post by novisnick on Oct 1, 2018 12:53:56 GMT -5
So my crazy friend Bill has just spent an absurd amount of money (~$1,500) to replace his Raspberry Pi RoPieee Distribution Roon Bridge solution (~$65) feeding into his Teac NT-503 DAC with an SOtM sMS-200ultra Neo. He claims that with no other change, USB Cables, etc. kept the same, that he hears a "Dramatic Difference". Since we're dealing with Digital Data (and the USB Cable as a possible source of Data Corruption is the same), I assume that the USB Input section on the otherwise quite nice Teac NT-503 DAC, is complete sh**. Maybe it isn't organically isolating the electrical signals coming in off the USB Input, maybe it isn't performing asynchronous reclocking of the input data. I suppose the Raspberry Pi's USB Output could be corrupting lots of its Output Packets ... But the problem is, the Teac doesn't expose any kind of USB Link Statistics, or internal statistics from the Teac's internal Asahi Kasei Microdevices dual-monaural AK4490EQ DACs. So we have no way of knowing what's going on. But this lack of solid data isn't unique to the Teac: I don't know of a single Audio DAC that does offer data like this. Why not? If I had a DAC that told me things like the rate of USB CRC errors indicating Corrupt Packets, or data from the internal DAC Circuitry complaining about Digital Data not being supplied in time, etc., that would give me something to work with in terms of understanding problem areas. The cheapest 10¢ Ethernet NIC Chip has Link Statistics counters like this. Why is this? Is it the case that USB and DAC Chips don't tend to offer this kind of information? Or is it an issue of Audio companies not wanting to expose such information? Casey Your statement that your friend Bill spent an absurd amount of money is not kind, it’s judgmental! Not cool dude! Yep, the SOtM isn’t cheap but what it brings to SQ is also insane! I own the last generation! Love it. Tell your friend Bill to look into an external PS, I’ve had good SQ improvements with my Sbooster MKII
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Post by Casey Leedom on Oct 1, 2018 13:01:02 GMT -5
Ha, don't worry novisnick, my friend Bill and I have known each other forever. We've ribbed each other over far less (and more) crazy things. I'll pass on your recommendation! Casey
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Post by millst on Oct 2, 2018 12:07:07 GMT -5
Probably because USB is very reliable and data throughput rates for audio are very low. There are tons of other things that are more likely to be the source of differences/problems. Some things I'd consider first:
1) Confirmation bias (DBT would eliminate) 2) Output format (PCM/DSD) 3) Sample rate 4) Use of clock cable in the new config? 5) Electrical noise on Pi USB bus
-tm
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