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Post by leonski on Oct 9, 2018 11:55:18 GMT -5
I would strongly reccomend the Emotiva PA-1. Value for the money and great performance is perfect with it. (I have the XPA-1 gen 2 and love it too). I've also experienced the XPA-2 gen 3 (as well as most of the gen 2 and gen 1 line). Not a chance with this one. I've run the UPA-2 on my KLF-30's and it barely had them breathing...and they are 102db efficient. Two twelve inch woofers still need power to make them perform. Trying to move two copper ten inch woofers in those RF-7 is not an easy task. The RF-7 woofers travel about an inch and I guarantee you that PA-1 is not enough to make them sing. My buddy Ryan just bought a pair of XPA-1 Gen 2 on close out and he loves them. I wouldn't go less than the XPA-2 as far as power goes. When I called Emotiva for my first new amp I spoke with a tech that advised me to go with the XPA-2 over the lower model amp at the time. I was using my Infinity SM-150, again 102db efficient....but his advice was that I still had to power a fifteen inch woofer. I bought the brand new XPA-2 Gen 1 and was very happy. So, the sensitivity spec is meaningless? Or perhaps just advisory? 'Typical' Wisdom would indicate that a speaker of 102db sensitivity should be fine with 5 to 10 watts. The RIGHT watts. I'd love to hear your speakers with my Dayton DTA-1, which at 35$ or so which @ 2x10 watts @4ohms / 0.1% is certainly fine. Or going upscale? The Pass ACA amp, which is 320$ in Kit Form and is single ended Class 'A' and about 8 watts per side....@8 ohms. One poster used that amp with his LaScallas to good effect. A capable amp of 100 a side should get you evicted from your town. |
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Post by teaman on Oct 9, 2018 12:49:53 GMT -5
Not a chance with this one. I've run the UPA-2 on my KLF-30's and it barely had them breathing...and they are 102db efficient. Two twelve inch woofers still need power to make them perform. Trying to move two copper ten inch woofers in those RF-7 is not an easy task. The RF-7 woofers travel about an inch and I guarantee you that PA-1 is not enough to make them sing. My buddy Ryan just bought a pair of XPA-1 Gen 2 on close out and he loves them. I wouldn't go less than the XPA-2 as far as power goes. When I called Emotiva for my first new amp I spoke with a tech that advised me to go with the XPA-2 over the lower model amp at the time. I was using my Infinity SM-150, again 102db efficient....but his advice was that I still had to power a fifteen inch woofer. I bought the brand new XPA-2 Gen 1 and was very happy. So, the sensitivity spec is meaningless? Or perhaps just advisory? 'Typical' Wisdom would indicate that a speaker of 102db sensitivity should be fine with 5 to 10 watts. The RIGHT watts. I'd love to hear your speakers with my Dayton DTA-1, which at 35$ or so which @ 2x10 watts @4ohms / 0.1% is certainly fine. Or going upscale? The Pass ACA amp, which is 320$ in Kit Form and is single ended Class 'A' and about 8 watts per side....@8 ohms. One poster used that amp with his LaScallas to good effect. A capable amp of 100 a side should get you evicted from your town. Like I said, you can run these speakers with flea watt amps, they just sound better with big powerful amps. I went from a Yamaha AVR to a Technics integrated to the XPA-2 to the XPA-1's and each time the quality of audio reproduced was a step above the last. Of course it is effortless for a 500 watt amp to drive 102db sensitive speakers but the massive amount of headroom allows for better control over the drivers. I find my Klipsch KLF-30 are much easier to drive to loud listening levels than my Infinity SM-150 even though they are both 102db efficient. Of course the specs mean something, my point is that you can "feel" more of the music with a larger amp driving them than you can a small amp. Tim |
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Post by leonski on Oct 9, 2018 15:56:07 GMT -5
I think, perhaps, you not only bought MORE watts, but better, as you changed stuff.
Certainly an AVR amp section isn't really very good, while the EMO amps darn well better be a step up from the Technics.
Me? I'd love to see you test the 'better V more' idea with some noted good amps.
I'd even be game to supply a reasonable mid-fi amp from Parasound. My A23 is only 125x2 @8 and 200x2 @4.
Some highly regarded amps from just a few years past are available 'pre loved' for reasonable prices.
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Post by thebard on Oct 12, 2018 2:41:29 GMT -5
Wow, this is a great community! Thanks a lot for the many - and quite enthusiastic - replies  I'm finally reaching a deal with the dude selling the speakers. He's had the feet replaced by some plate  I think I'll go for the XPA-2 Gen2 for now.. I guess I can always upgrade later. I hope later is more than 4 months  Thank you all very much. |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 12, 2018 2:49:43 GMT -5
We’re not very opinionated at all around here! LOL Please hang out more often and add yours to the choir!
Welcome, glad your here.
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Post by thebard on Oct 12, 2018 2:56:19 GMT -5
Have not you thought about buying rf7 III? I actually bought the standard 5 speaker setup of the Reference Premiere line about a year ago (RP-280F Fronts, RP250S Surrounds and the RP-450C Center) and tried it out for a very disappointing couple of weeks. I could not get them to harmonize with my components. Not with my old Onkyo AVR, not an old tube Amp I had, and not my Denon AVR, not even with the Emotiva XPA-5 providing power. With some songs they'd sound a tad better than my Reference MKII's, and I'd think hmm.. yeah I could keep these.... and then with many other songs they'd sound just abysmal. Tinny, digital and just a pain to listen to after some minutes. I was so happy I'd kept my old speaker set. I wasn't going to try the RF-7III. I'm sure they're great speakers, in someone else's home, not mine. Besides, they cost a sh**-load of money here in Germany, and I'm getting a good deal on the MKII's. (4000€vs.1600€) |
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Post by mack71 on Oct 12, 2018 6:16:45 GMT -5
Here is a great community, you can always count on advice in case of troubles  . Support from Emotiva itself is also great . You are right about the crazy price rf7 mk3 vs mk2. The introduced changes in the mk3 model may be important, however, more smooth high tones and better controlled bass. If you think rp280 is bright or sharp, be careful, as Rf7 mk2 is even more detailed (for some it is bright, sharp, digital). It is often enough to do minor treatments in the room to improve the acoustics and the quality of the music being listened to. Have not you thought about buying rf7 III? I actually bought the standard 5 speaker setup of the Reference Premiere line about a year ago (RP-280F Fronts, RP250S Surrounds and the RP-450C Center) and tried it out for a very disappointing couple of weeks. I could not get them to harmonize with my components. Not with my old Onkyo AVR, not an old tube Amp I had, and not my Denon AVR, not even with the Emotiva XPA-5 providing power. With some songs they'd sound a tad better than my Reference MKII's, and I'd think hmm.. yeah I could keep these.... and then with many other songs they'd sound just abysmal. Tinny, digital and just a pain to listen to after some minutes. I was so happy I'd kept my old speaker set. I wasn't going to try the RF-7III. I'm sure they're great speakers, in someone else's home, not mine. Besides, they cost a sh**-load of money here in Germany, and I'm getting a good deal on the MKII's. (4000€vs.1600€) |
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Post by leonski on Oct 12, 2018 13:00:12 GMT -5
Mack is 100% about the room. This is the most important part of the 'system' and most of what you actually hear. In general, a 'world class' stereo in a poor room just won't make it. A good stereo in a real good room will sound better, and for much less $$$ I'd personally start with a 'basic setup' and speaker location exercise. Add sub later. Many such 'help' sites exist including the well thought out CARDAS site. Spending time with this is time Very Well Spent. www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php |
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Post by thebard on Oct 14, 2018 5:45:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the "room setup" tips.. I am quite familiar with the issue and have experimented quite a bit with my listening area, moving furniture strategically around, adding little rugs and so forth.. I am happy with my setup. My remarks about the RP-280F had it going head to head in identical placements with my RF-82MKII's. The RP's where just inconsistnet, and the "improvement" in sound was just not really worth it.
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Post by leonski on Oct 14, 2018 15:12:24 GMT -5
Setup is a real '3rd rail' issue.
Even speakers very 'similar' and from the same maker are replaced, the setup is almost certain to change.
I had to alter setup (mainlly 'tuning') when I replaced Magnepan MG-1 panels with much newer MG1.6 just a few years ago. I even did extensive experiments with the following factors:
Toe, in/out and how much
Spacing from front wall
Spacing from side wall
Panel TILT,
And finally? Which side to listen to AND tweeter IN or OUT.
Some configurations were awful and lasted 1 minute. As I learned more, setups lasted longer and approached 'best'.
Even when I still had the MG-1 panels, the addition of a power conditioner changed perceptions enough to need a slight change in physical setup.
If this is a hot-button issue wiht the Spouse, you might want to send her and a GF to the MOVIES while you run some tests in relative peace and quiet.
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Post by thebard on Oct 15, 2018 4:33:14 GMT -5
No spouse at the time I did my testing, so I could do so in peace New girlfriend happened afterwards and accepted the fact that the speakers "had to be at least 3 feet from the wall, This is not up for discussion!".. Getting side-tracked here though. I understand placement and room acoustics are absolutely important. I was merely replying to the "give the Reference Premiere a chance" party. I gave it a chance. Over several weeks. I was willing to upend my entire living room style to make them work, but they just proved too fickle, and to be honest, I am not that diehard an audiophile at the end of the day. I am not willing to sit in a stress-position while being waterboarded just because this is the speaker's sweetspot. If it's that hard to make it work, then it just isn't a good fit for me and my room at the time. LIke I said, I am happy with my current setup and fully aware that I will probably have to experiment a bit once the new speakers are there. Oh.. and the dude selling me his XPA-2 Gen2 just jacked up the price.. He now wants 800USD and I am seriously considering buying a new Gen 3 (200 bucks more) or jumping over to the DR2. THERE's a discussion opener |
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Post by Radblue on Oct 15, 2018 7:20:26 GMT -5
I had a set of the mrk3's first powered with a 100wpc 2channel driven avr they sounded hollow. Then went to a Crown XLi 1500 pro-amp @ 325 wpc 8ohm and this brought them to life but the amp clipped at around 50% power and the RF7's still wanted more. I finally settled on an Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 3. This amp had the clean power to take the 7's to there limits and jack the SQ up across the board.
If you're thinking of getting a new Gen 3 rest assured you will be very happy with the sound.
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Post by leonski on Oct 15, 2018 12:38:28 GMT -5
No spouse at the time I did my testing, so I could do so in peace New girlfriend happened afterwards and accepted the fact that the speakers "had to be at least 3 feet from the wall, This is not up for discussion!".. Getting side-tracked here though. I understand placement and room acoustics are absolutely important. I was merely replying to the "give the Reference Premiere a chance" party. I gave it a chance. Over several weeks. I was willing to upend my entire living room style to make them work, but they just proved too fickle, and to be honest, I am not that diehard an audiophile at the end of the day. I am not willing to sit in a stress-position while being waterboarded just because this is the speaker's sweetspot. If it's that hard to make it work, then it just isn't a good fit for me and my room at the time. LIke I said, I am happy with my current setup and fully aware that I will probably have to experiment a bit once the new speakers are there. Oh.. and the dude selling me his XPA-2 Gen2 just jacked up the price.. He now wants 800USD and I am seriously considering buying a new Gen 3 (200 bucks more) or jumping over to the DR2. THERE's a discussion opener It won't be popular HERE, but out of the EMO 'Universe' are quite the number of both affordable AND capable amps. And at prices you should be comfortable with. Some of these amps might even be considered to be 'end game' gear, which will last thru several upgrade cycles minimum or be around for decades. www.audiogon.com/listings/lis96572-parasound-a21-stereo-power-amplifier-black-15132-solid-stateParasound A21 is just one choice of many. 250x2 @8 with a high bias design. (first 10 or so biased 'A') I'm a fan of Parasound, so take my Rec with a grain of salt. When I got married, I made it clear that my Panel Speakers (Magnepan) were a very high priority as far as LR realestate went and that sound ruled. Even my CATS gave 'em a wide berth and never used 'em for 5 foot tall (plus) scratching posts. |
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Post by leonski on Oct 15, 2018 14:31:44 GMT -5
I had a set of the mrk3's first powered with a 100wpc 2channel driven avr they sounded hollow. Then went to a Crown XLi 1500 pro-amp @ 325 wpc 8ohm and this brought them to life but the amp clipped at around 50% power and the RF7's still wanted more. I finally settled on an Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 3. This amp had the clean power to take the 7's to there limits and jack the SQ up across the board. If you're thinking of getting a new Gen 3 rest assured you will be very happy with the sound. A lesson here? AVR has junk PS and amps are usually either underpowered / underperforming - and/or poor sounding. Crown? Maybe for sound reinforcement but not for a serious home system. That the Crown couldn't handle a 100db sensitive speaker rated @8ohms should tell you something.....not necessarily 'good'. 100 a side of Capable watts should get you evicted from the state you live in. |
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. Support from Emotiva itself is also great 
