Would an XPA-DR2 be overkill for my Klipsch RF-7 MKIIs?

[thebard]

Hello,
I'm new here, so take it easy with me
I also live in Germany, so whatever cool Craigslist / forum offers / Emotiva sell-out / etc.. deals are unfortunately not going to work for me.
The short version: I'm currently procuring a couple of Klipsch RF-7 MKII fronts to headline my Kipsch reference MKII 7.1.4 home theater (living room) setup. A colleague is offering me his 4-year old XPA2-Gen2 @650euros, and I've been fiddling with the idea of buying the XPA-DR2 which would cost me 1650€ after haggling with the local emotiva dealer. (Prices in Europe suck, don't get me started)
I watch movies in surround, but also listen to lots of music. predominantly classical, acoustic, rock, blues and experimental jazz bit with a smattering of almost everything else.
My simple (haha) question is: Will I notice a change worth upwards of 1000 bucks if I go the DR2 road with these speakers? I am asking whether it makes sense to buy an amp that costs the same as the speaker pair it is going to power, knowing full well that I will NOT upgrade the speakers anytime soon.. no plans whatsoever!
Am I burning my money? I hate to be that guy.

A few notes:
- I like my speakers and won't change them.
- I would prefer it if suggestions stayed focused on these two options, before y'all confuse me with a bevvy of amplifiers I have never heard of and have no way to get my hands on - remember the Germany constraint
- The RF-7s are fairly efficient, really easy to push speakers (101db)

My setup: So I've upgraded over the years to a 7.1.4 speaker setup based on the Kipsch reference MKII series. I have RF-82MKIIs as fronts, an RC-64MKII center, 2 RS-62MKIIs as surrounds, 2 RB-81MKII Bookshelfs as rears, and 4 RP-SA140 speaker top ATMOS modules.
The fronts, center and surrounds are running off a Gen1 XPA-5, while the rears and ATMOS modules are running off a UPA-7. I'm using a Denon AVR-X4400H as a pre. The RF-7s would replace the RF-82s as fronts, which I would probaby push into the rear, and maybe sell the bookshelfs.
My idea is to power those fronts with a dedicated two channel amp. I thought I'd use XPA5 to power teh 5 other main speakers, and could let the DENON AVR power the ATMOS modules,a s they are not that power-hungry (50W RMS).
My living / listening room has hardwood floors, is lightly furnitured, not accoustically treated, and measures 13*21*9ft.

Your insights are greatly appreciated.

Cheers
M

[teaman]

Welcome to the forum thebard. You have a nice arrangement and good choice of speakers in your set up.

I have several friends that have RF-7 series speakers, some of each generation. I would say that the more power you can throw at the RF-7, the better. Too bad you missed out on the close out of XPA-1 600 watt monoblocks a couple of months back, several friends run those with the RF-7's and absolutely love them. I also own the RF-82ii speakers and I would say there will be a huge improvement moving to the RF-7's.

Don't let the high efficiency of the Klipsch fool you into thinking they don't need power, they crave power. Sure you can run them on five watt tube amps but you need some punch to move dual ten inch drivers. I own three pair of Klipsch KLF-30 and one pair is powered by XPA-1 monoblocks while the other two pair are powered by the XPA-2. There is a definite difference with the more powerful amps, but the XPA-2 is just fine to power them.


I have absolutely no experience with the Gen 3 DR Emotiva amps but I own both Gen 1 and 2. So far most people seem happy with the new generation so keep that in mind. I think you would do fine with the XPA-2 driving them, but the more power you throw at them, the happier they will be.


Tim

[pallpoul]

I run my RF-7 III's with the XPA2-Gen 3, and it does a super fine job. I have auditioned the DR-2 in my same setup, but it did not add, to my normal ears, anything to what the XPA-2 brings to the table.
Save some money, get the XPA-2.

[bootman]

The Gen2 is a nice amp.
I would go with that myself.

[macromicroman]

I have owned a set of Klipsch RF-7iis for many years. I would go with the XPA-2 and save some money.

[mrloren]

see if your friend will let you borrow the XPA-2 for a weekend to try it out.

[Boomzilla]

In a word, yes - it would be wretched overkill. But that never stopped anyone else! LOL Your system - your money - your choice. Enjoy!

Boom

[mack71]

Hello,
I had Xpa1 and xpa2 of both generations. A few months ago, I took the Dr1 test and they were already there. I sold Xpa 1 gen2, because I thought that Dr1 is more detailed, more resolving, the music seems more live; it is very well audible with such instruments as guitar, piano, violin but also on vocals. The second thing is that Dr1 is more quiet and quite cold. Xpa -2 is very similar to xpa-1. In Europe, you can easily buy Xpa-1 gen2 (in Poland, where I live, is in promotion and is cheaper than DR1) It's best if you took both testers at the same time for a trial period and decided yourself, which will suit you more.
Have not you thought about buying rf7 III?

Oct 8, 2018 13:07:40 GMT -5 thebard said:

Hello,
I'm new here, so take it easy with me
I also live in Germany, so whatever cool Craigslist / forum offers / Emotiva sell-out / etc.. deals are unfortunately not going to work for me.
The short version: I'm currently procuring a couple of Klipsch RF-7 MKII fronts to headline my Kipsch reference MKII 7.1.4 home theater (living room) setup. A colleague is offering me his 4-year old XPA2-Gen2 @650euros, and I've been fiddling with the idea of buying the XPA-DR2 which would cost me 1650€ after haggling with the local emotiva dealer. (Prices in Europe suck, don't get me started)
I watch movies in surround, but also listen to lots of music. predominantly classical, acoustic, rock, blues and experimental jazz bit with a smattering of almost everything else.
My simple (haha) question is: Will I notice a change worth upwards of 1000 bucks if I go the DR2 road with these speakers? I am asking whether it makes sense to buy an amp that costs the same as the speaker pair it is going to power, knowing full well that I will NOT upgrade the speakers anytime soon.. no plans whatsoever!
Am I burning my money? I hate to be that guy.

A few notes:
- I like my speakers and won't change them.
- I would prefer it if suggestions stayed focused on these two options, before y'all confuse me with a bevvy of amplifiers I have never heard of and have no way to get my hands on - remember the Germany constraint
- The RF-7s are fairly efficient, really easy to push speakers (101db)

My setup: So I've upgraded over the years to a 7.1.4 speaker setup based on the Kipsch reference MKII series. I have RF-82MKIIs as fronts, an RC-64MKII center, 2 RS-62MKIIs as surrounds, 2 RB-81MKII Bookshelfs as rears, and 4 RP-SA140 speaker top ATMOS modules.
The fronts, center and surrounds are running off a Gen1 XPA-5, while the rears and ATMOS modules are running off a UPA-7. I'm using a Denon AVR-X4400H as a pre. The RF-7s would replace the RF-82s as fronts, which I would probaby push into the rear, and maybe sell the bookshelfs.
My idea is to power those fronts with a dedicated two channel amp. I thought I'd use XPA5 to power teh 5 other main speakers, and could let the DENON AVR power the ATMOS modules,a s they are not that power-hungry (50W RMS).
My living / listening room has hardwood floors, is lightly furnitured, not accoustically treated, and measures 13*21*9ft.

Your insights are greatly appreciated.

Cheers
M

[26gary26]

Oct 8, 2018 14:16:55 GMT -5 pallpoul said:

I run my RF-7 III's with the XPA2-Gen 3, and it does a super fine job. I have auditioned the DR-2 in my same setup, but it did not add, to my normal ears, anything to what the XPA-2 brings to the table.
Save some money, get the XPA-2.

I am running the Klipsch RF-7II's with the XPA2-Gen3 also and I am more than happy with the results.  Due to the speaker efficiency -29 on the volume control is very loud and pleasing.. Welcome to the forum and good luck with your choice.

[26gary26]

Boomzilla on this site is selling XPA-2 Gen 3 with warranty at one heck of a price with warranty.

[pedrocols]

You guys must have very special ears to be able to listen to Klipsch speakers at high volumes with solid state amps.

[mack71]

You're right about the Klipsch Heritage series speakers. . However, the RF and RP Series speakers that are great for home theater are best suited to strong ss amplifiers. Despite the high efficiency RF7 II are not recommended for use with tube amplifiers. There are several professional tests that talk about it ;

Oct 8, 2018 18:09:01 GMT -5 pedrocols said:

You guys must have very special ears to be able to listen to Klipsch speakers at high volumes with solid state amps.

[teaman]

Oct 8, 2018 21:24:31 GMT -5 mack71 said:

You're right about the Klipsch Heritage series speakers. . However, the RF and RP Series speakers that are great for home theater are best suited to strong ss amplifiers. Despite the high efficiency RF7 II are not recommended for use with tube amplifiers. There are several professional tests that talk about it ;View Attachment

Oct 8, 2018 18:09:01 GMT -5 pedrocols said:

You guys must have very special ears to be able to listen to Klipsch speakers at high volumes with solid state amps.

I've yet to hear a Heritage series speaker that has not liked SS amps. I've heard KHorns, LaScalas, Belles, Forte, Chorus and Heresys with SS amps and have not found any to be harsh or fatiguing. If you go to the entry line aluminum tweeter yielding speakers in the R line I have heard some harshness and brightness that would need taming. Easy enough since Bob Crites sells titanium tweeter diaphragms for direct replacement for about $40.

[Lsc]

My Klipsch Forte II still sound great with my XPR-2 and my old XMC-1.

But back to the OP, I personally wouldn’t go with the XPA-2 gen2 - I had this amp and it didn’t last long (about 7 months) before I got rid of it. I felt the low end was solid but the highs were a little “electronic” and not what I would describe as smooth sounding at all.

I don’t know why the XPA-2 gen3 is so expensive there but that might be an ok option - not sure as I don’t have a lot of experience with them. If you can get a laid back sound in a true high end sounding amp, it would be ideal.

[garbulky]

I would strongly reccomend the Emotiva PA-1. Value for the money and great performance is perfect with it. (I have the XPA-1 gen 2 and love it too). I've also experienced the XPA-2 gen 3 (as well as most of the gen 2 and gen 1 line).

[leonski]

Fewer watts.....but perhaps 'better' are indicated.

With such high sensitivity speakers, you will rarely (if ever) exceed 5 or 6 watts continuous with 10x that as peaks.
With that in mind?   Double my high estimate adds another 3db so I'd think 100x2 or perhaps 150x2 would work wonders.   

Personally? I'd go at this 2 ways.

First? Get out and hear as much as you can. I realize you are in Germany, but you MUST certainly be near someplace to hear some gear.
Any clubs or organizations? Stores? Friends? Stores might be found in most Urban areas. Berlin? Munich? And you are near to several
other countries which have eligible urban areas to find stores. Wouldn't surprise me to learn the Swiss are nutty about stereo. Or the Dutch!

Second? Once you find something you like, you might indeed check for pre-owned. It's difficult to wreck an amplifier. Buy local and get a Demonstration
right IN your house. You won't make or lose much money buying and selling, or perhaps trying an 'experiment'. One guy I know says that 'It was used when
I bought it and it'll be used when I sell it'. All the while not burning thru a lot of cash.

While not on subject to your original post, you should keep in mind that the worlds greatest stereo only sounds OK in an OK room. A stereos status will be raised
as you improve both setup AND the room in which you listen. Please not to forget that the device which 'adjusts' the room does no such thing but rather does an equalization
curve based on where you place the microphone. Some of this software can 'average' multiple microphone locations which may actually enlarge the 'sweet spot'.

[teaman]

Oct 8, 2018 22:23:02 GMT -5 garbulky said:

I would strongly reccomend the Emotiva PA-1. Value for the money and great performance is perfect with it. (I have the XPA-1 gen 2 and love it too). I've also experienced the XPA-2 gen 3 (as well as most of the gen 2 and gen 1 line).

Not a chance with this one. I've run the UPA-2 on my KLF-30's and it barely had them breathing...and they are 102db efficient. Two twelve inch woofers still need power to make them perform.

Trying to move two copper ten inch woofers in those RF-7 is not an easy task. The RF-7 woofers travel about an inch and I guarantee you that PA-1 is not enough to make them sing. My buddy Ryan just bought a pair of XPA-1 Gen 2 on close out and he loves them. I wouldn't go less than the XPA-2 as far as power goes.

When I called Emotiva for my first new amp I spoke with a tech that advised me to go with the XPA-2 over the lower model amp at the time. I was using my Infinity SM-150, again 102db efficient....but his advice was that I still had to power a fifteen inch woofer. I bought the brand new XPA-2 Gen 1 and was very happy.

[garbulky]

Oct 8, 2018 23:11:47 GMT -5 teaman said:

Oct 8, 2018 22:23:02 GMT -5 garbulky said:

I would strongly reccomend the Emotiva PA-1. Value for the money and great performance is perfect with it. (I have the XPA-1 gen 2 and love it too). I've also experienced the XPA-2 gen 3 (as well as most of the gen 2 and gen 1 line).

Not a chance with this one. I've run the UPA-2 on my KLF-30's and it barely had them breathing...and they are 102db efficient. Two twelve inch woofers still need power to make them perform.

Trying to move two copper ten inch woofers in those RF-7 is not an easy task. The RF-7 woofers travel about an inch and I guarantee you that PA-1 is not enough to make them sing. My buddy Ryan just bought a pair of XPA-1 Gen 2 on close out and he loves them. I wouldn't go less than the XPA-2 as far as power goes.

When I called Emotiva for my first new amp I spoke with a tech that advised me to go with the XPA-2 over the lower model amp at the time. I was using my Infinity SM-150, again 102db efficient....but his advice was that I still had to power a fifteen inch woofer. I bought the brand new XPA-2 Gen 1 and was very happy.

About three days ago, I would have been right there with you. My opinion then would have been that the PA-1's would be good for a "second" non critical system.
You remember all my fuss about switching power supplies and dissing class D and my love for my XPA-1 gen 2?
Well that was three days ago! Hehehe.
Give the PA-1 a try and tell me I'm wrong.

[teaman]

Oct 8, 2018 23:45:24 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Oct 8, 2018 23:11:47 GMT -5 teaman said:

Not a chance with this one. I've run the UPA-2 on my KLF-30's and it barely had them breathing...and they are 102db efficient. Two twelve inch woofers still need power to make them perform.

Trying to move two copper ten inch woofers in those RF-7 is not an easy task. The RF-7 woofers travel about an inch and I guarantee you that PA-1 is not enough to make them sing. My buddy Ryan just bought a pair of XPA-1 Gen 2 on close out and he loves them. I wouldn't go less than the XPA-2 as far as power goes.

When I called Emotiva for my first new amp I spoke with a tech that advised me to go with the XPA-2 over the lower model amp at the time. I was using my Infinity SM-150, again 102db efficient....but his advice was that I still had to power a fifteen inch woofer. I bought the brand new XPA-2 Gen 1 and was very happy.

About three days ago, I would have been right there with you. My opinion then would have been that the PA-1's would be good for a "second" non critical system.
You remember all my fuss about switching power supplies and dissing class D and my love for my XPA-1 gen 2?
Well that was three days ago! Hehehe.
Give the PA-1 a try and tell me I'm wrong.

Don't get me wrong Gar, I'm not knocking the PA-1, I just don't think it can power these big ass speakers. I bought a Crown XLS series amp and it was thinning out on my Infinities too. Class D with 250 wpc. Just saying that the RF-7 are power hungry, even though the specs tell a different story.

[garbulky]

Oct 8, 2018 23:47:56 GMT -5 teaman said:

Oct 8, 2018 23:45:24 GMT -5 garbulky said:

About three days ago, I would have been right there with you. My opinion then would have been that the PA-1's would be good for a "second" non critical system.
You remember all my fuss about switching power supplies and dissing class D and my love for my XPA-1 gen 2?
Well that was three days ago! Hehehe.
Give the PA-1 a try and tell me I'm wrong.

Don't get me wrong Gar, I'm not knocking the PA-1, I just don't think it can power these big ass speakers. I bought a Crown XLS series amp and it was thinning out on my Infinities too. Class D with 250 wpc. Just saying that the RF-7 are power hungry, even though the specs tell a different story.

It's true I haven't tried it with 12 inch speakers. Now the PA-1 won't have as much impact as an XPA-1 gen 2 does. That's true. B'zilla and I have tried it on a Sonus Faber Sonetto VIII (3 7 or 8 inch drivers each) and my Axiom m80s. And on the Crown XLS which I tried with the Axioms, man they didn't really sound very good. They sounded like you described - they thinned out, strained. These PA-1 amps did not have that problem - though they weren't as warm in sound, they were very clear and fast.