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Post by sahmen on Nov 5, 2018 20:36:28 GMT -5
Unfortunately, Amir and his methods are not exactly the .most reputable or reliable examples of scientific integrity, and there is something rather odd about pots that relish calling kettles black, IMHO. Of course, YMMV. |
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Post by brutiarti on Nov 6, 2018 7:11:37 GMT -5
If something is overpriced, similar products will be offered from other manufacturers with better price points, especially if the product has been in the market for several years. Personally I don’t know any similar plug n play product with better pricing. |
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Post by liv2teach on Nov 6, 2018 12:12:57 GMT -5
Did anyone in the thread you provided the link to actually listen to the microRendu? Yes, there was some discussion about listening...and one individual felt they'd heard a large improvement in sound, but began to question what they heard after seeing the data. For clarification, I'm not making an argument either way...simply providing another perspective and data for those in this thread who were asking for it.... I really don't have a horse in this race. |
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Post by vortecjr on Nov 8, 2018 6:10:24 GMT -5
Hello, I'm the owner of Sonore and I can answer any questions you have.
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Post by fbczar on Nov 8, 2018 8:03:33 GMT -5
Hello, I'm the owner of Sonore and I can answer any questions you have. It would be great if you could shed some light on exactly how/why the microRendu and Ultra Rendu work to improve the sound of a system. I use a WD Mycloud NAS with Audirvana on an iMac and my processor is an Emotiva XMC-1. I have a microRendu with an iFi power supply connected to the XMC-1. In my case the microRendu improves the sound significantly. How can the microRendu make a positive difference when the XMC-1 has an asynchronous USB connection? |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Nov 8, 2018 15:34:33 GMT -5
fbczar - exactly the questions I wanted to ask. I'm really curious because we have respected friends here that really "dig" the Rendu product....
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 8, 2018 15:41:25 GMT -5
Hello, I'm the owner of Sonore and I can answer any questions you have. Good to see you here. Love my new UltraRendu! The sound is amazing. Mark |
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Post by novisnick on Nov 8, 2018 15:56:37 GMT -5
fbczar - exactly the questions I wanted to ask. I'm really curious because we have respected friends here that really "dig" the Rendu product.... And perhaps less respected friends that dig the sotm sms-200 ultra. 😏 |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Nov 8, 2018 16:36:10 GMT -5
@novisnic - true that  |
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Post by novisnick on Nov 8, 2018 17:28:29 GMT -5
@novisnic - true that Feeling the Love. In all honesty I’m just too tired to drag a horse to the water! 😋 the sotm is such angreat sounding product. Sonore once sold sotm untill they learned a few things from them. A little research will show it. |
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Post by vortecjr on Nov 8, 2018 17:28:40 GMT -5
Hello, I'm the owner of Sonore and I can answer any questions you have. It would be great if you could shed some light on exactly how/why the microRendu and Ultra Rendu work to improve the sound of a system. I use a WD Mycloud NAS with Audirvana on an iMac and my processor is an Emotiva XMC-1. I have a microRendu with an iFi power supply connected to the XMC-1. In my case the microRendu improves the sound significantly. How can the microRendu make a positive difference when the XMC-1 has an asynchronous USB connection? Asynchronous USB just tells us the DAC is in charge of data requests from the computer. It’s doesn’t tell us anything about electrical noise that might be passed from unit to unit when we hook things up with wires. It also doesn’t say how your DAC is affected by the interconnection. Our gear is designed to be isolated from your computer over the network and is designed with only the necessary software and hardware components needed to get the job done. The designer of the board John Swenson is also conducting research to understand things further, but it takes time. Anyway, I usually let customers talk about sound quality and I stick to talking about functionality. |
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Post by vortecjr on Nov 8, 2018 17:32:13 GMT -5
fbczar - exactly the questions I wanted to ask. I'm really curious because we have respected friends here that really "dig" the Rendu product.... Customer reviews are great, but the best way to see if something will work for you is to try it. Think Black Friday sales;) |
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Post by vortecjr on Nov 8, 2018 17:34:12 GMT -5
fbczar - exactly the questions I wanted to ask. I'm really curious because we have respected friends here that really "dig" the Rendu product.... And perhaps less respected friends that dig the sotm sms-200 ultra. 😏 No worries. |
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Post by vortecjr on Nov 8, 2018 17:43:56 GMT -5
@novisnic - true that Feeling the Love. In all honesty I’m just too tired to drag a horse to the water! 😋 the sotm is such angreat sounding product. Sonore once soldmsotm untill they learned a few things from them. A little research will show it. We use to sell their earlier products and the split was something that unfortunately became necessary. |
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Post by vortecjr on Nov 8, 2018 17:52:38 GMT -5
Hello, I'm the owner of Sonore and I can answer any questions you have. Good to see you here. Love my new UltraRendu! The sound is amazing. Mark Nice...enjoy! |
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Post by novisnick on Nov 8, 2018 18:08:24 GMT -5
Hello, I'm the owner of Sonore and I can answer any questions you have. Thanks for joining us. Maybe you can better explain this technical breakthrough. I’m not an owner of your produce but these NAAs are remarkable in what they do for SQ. I do own a sotm spsns-200 Ultra SE, I believe these products to be extremely similar. Rolling out the  |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Nov 8, 2018 18:09:21 GMT -5
I have a great deal of respect for the person you quoted. He basically said that..... - with an asynch USB input the clock is controlled by the DAC (or other sink device) - their board provides electrical isolation, which could affect noise reaching the DAC from upstream, which could affect the way some DACs sound - but, beyond that, he's not making any claims about how it will actually affect the sound If you read between the lines he basically says that "they're trying to figure out how it could make things sound different"....
To me, this earns him lots of points for honesty.... And it certainly doesn't rule out the possibility that their device sometimes produces an actual measurable or audible improvement.
However, it also suggests that even they suspect that some of what's going on is simply due to the suggestibility of their customers.
I'm reminded of current TV commercials for a particular powerful drug being sold as a treatment for migraine headaches. It was found that, in patients who had fifteen or more headache days a month, the drug reduced that number by six or seven. This sounds great, until you find out that patients who received a harmless placebo had five or six fewer headaches a month. In other words, the power of suggestion worked almost as well as the powerful and potentially dangerous drug.
The drug is expensive, and has potential nasty side effects; the placebo is free and harmless. In other words, the power of suggestion worked almost as well as the powerful and potentially dangerous drug.
(It does make me wonder what people would hear in an actual double-blind listening test.) Asynchronous USB just tells us the DAC is in charge of data requests from the computer. It’s doesn’t tell us anything about electrical noise that might be passed from unit to unit when we hook things up with wires. It also doesn’t say how your DAC is affected by the interconnection. Our gear is designed to be isolated from your computer over the network and is designed with only the necessary software and hardware components needed to get the job done. The designer of the board John Swenson is also conducting research to understand things further, but it takes time. Anyway, I usually let customers talk about sound quality and I stick to talking about functionality. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 8, 2018 18:22:03 GMT -5
I have a great deal of respect for the person you quoted. He basically said that..... - with an asynch USB input the clock is controlled by the DAC (or other sink device) - their board provides electrical isolation, which could affect noise reaching the DAC from upstream, which could affect the way some DACs sound - but, beyond that, he's not making any claims about how it will actually affect the sound If you read between the lines he basically says that "they're trying to figure out how it could make things sound different"....
To me, this earns him lots of points for honesty.... And it certainly doesn't rule out the possibility that their device sometimes produces an actual measurable or audible improvement.
However, it also suggests that even they suspect that some of what's going on is simply due to the suggestibility of their customers. I'm reminded of current TV commercials for a particular powerful drug being sold as a treatment for migraine headaches. It was found that, in patients who had fifteen or more headache days a month, the drug reduced that number by six or seven. This sounds great, until you find out that patients who received a harmless placebo had five or six fewer headaches a month. In other words, the power of suggestion worked almost as well as the powerful and potentially dangerous drug.
The drug is expensive, and has potential nasty side effects; the placebo is free and harmless. In other words, the power of suggestion worked almost as well as the powerful and potentially dangerous drug.
(It does make me wonder what people would hear in an actual double-blind listening test.) Asynchronous USB just tells us the DAC is in charge of data requests from the computer. It’s doesn’t tell us anything about electrical noise that might be passed from unit to unit when we hook things up with wires. It also doesn’t say how your DAC is affected by the interconnection. Our gear is designed to be isolated from your computer over the network and is designed with only the necessary software and hardware components needed to get the job done. The designer of the board John Swenson is also conducting research to understand things further, but it takes time. Anyway, I usually let customers talk about sound quality and I stick to talking about functionality. And...for all you nay say about them, you still have not heard one yet...have you? Mark |
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Post by vortecjr on Nov 8, 2018 18:28:32 GMT -5
Hello, I'm the owner of Sonore and I can answer any questions you have. Thanks for joining us. Maybe you can better explain this technical breakthrough. I’m not an owner of your produce but these NAAs are remarkable in what they do for SQ. I do own a sotm spsns-200 Ultra SE, I believe these products to be extremely similar. Rolling out the Thanks! I’ll Explan more below. |
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Post by vortecjr on Nov 8, 2018 19:03:06 GMT -5
I have a great deal of respect for the person you quoted. He basically said that..... - with an asynch USB input the clock is controlled by the DAC (or other sink device) - their board provides electrical isolation, which could affect noise reaching the DAC from upstream, which could affect the way some DACs sound - but, beyond that, he's not making any claims about how it will actually affect the sound If you read between the lines he basically says that "they're trying to figure out how it could make things sound different"....
To me, this earns him lots of points for honesty.... And it certainly doesn't rule out the possibility that their device sometimes produces an actual measurable or audible improvement.
However, it also suggests that even they suspect that some of what's going on is simply due to the suggestibility of their customers.
I'm reminded of current TV commercials for a particular powerful drug being sold as a treatment for migraine headaches. It was found that, in patients who had fifteen or more headache days a month, the drug reduced that number by six or seven. This sounds great, until you find out that patients who received a harmless placebo had five or six fewer headaches a month. In other words, the power of suggestion worked almost as well as the powerful and potentially dangerous drug.
The drug is expensive, and has potential nasty side effects; the placebo is free and harmless. In other words, the power of suggestion worked almost as well as the powerful and potentially dangerous drug.
(It does make me wonder what people would hear in an actual double-blind listening test.) Asynchronous USB just tells us the DAC is in charge of data requests from the computer. It’s doesn’t tell us anything about electrical noise that might be passed from unit to unit when we hook things up with wires. It also doesn’t say how your DAC is affected by the interconnection. Our gear is designed to be isolated from your computer over the network and is designed with only the necessary software and hardware components needed to get the job done. The designer of the board John Swenson is also conducting research to understand things further, but it takes time. Anyway, I usually let customers talk about sound quality and I stick to talking about functionality. I don’t think this is about the power of suggestion. We have a lot of customers and just as much honest feedback as you can get. All that side if you look at the product specifications you will see that these products have to provide a wide range of functionality in order to meet their specific needs without first getting into how it sounds. It goes without saying though that it has to sound good, but to me that is a given. Last weekend I took some measurements comparing a microRendu to an i5 I had in the bone yard. I think the microRendu was holding it’s own even with a 50 USD SMPS compared to the i5 with an expensive linear power supply. People above have asked for more information. The design is straight forward and based on good circuit design with high quality regulation and clocking all in a small form factor. Remember, the goal was to replace a computer in the audio room with a credit card sized device. On the software we side we put everything we know from years of building Linux based gear into it. What is also interesting is what we can do when we merge our own hardware design with our operating system. |
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