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Post by sahmen on Nov 3, 2018 21:32:33 GMT -5
The generic name for all these products is "network player", or "streamer," which are, in themselves, inadequate and limited, because, under the hood each one of them may combine a series of functions : rendering, bridging, clocking, etc, not to mention, sometimes, power supply, preamp, DAC, or even integrated amp functions, depending on the specs of the model in question, and the choices of its manufacturer: Sonore prefer to call the Rendu series "renderers", although the signature rendu SE also contains a humongous power supply unit, whereas the Micro- and ultra-rendu each requires an external power supply . (This is important, because if some "power conditioning" is taking place, then it could be occurring outside the jurisdiction of the micro- and ultrarendu entirely, i.e. inside an independent power supply that could be made by an entirely different company, such as, say, Sbooster, or Uptone Audio, for example) SOtM, on the other hand prefer to call the base unit, namely, the sMS-200ultra, "an upgraded network player equipped with a dedicated media player board and a high performance audio clock," yet we know that it also comes with an optional external power supply, and an optional reclocker... (The SOtM Triple treat)... Now talking about the inadequacy of names, is it not rather counterproductive and even misleading to call both Google's ChromeCast audio ($35 or less) and Lumin's XI ($13.990) simply "network players" or "Streamers", given the vast differences in specs that set them apart, solely because they can both stream network audio and act as Roon endpoints?   To cite another example, take the company dCS, which currently has 5 different products, pegged at widely divergent price-points, and very different in specs and technical attributes and sophistication, that are all listed as Roon-ready network players : 1. The Network Bridge2. The Rossini DAC3. The Rossini Player4. The Vivaldi One5. The Vivaldi UpsamplerThey are all able to stream and function as network players, and yet, one could easily argue that what makes each of them different from the others far supersedes what makes them similar. My takeaway from this brief analysis is that if I was a reviewer interested in these products, I would take each one on its own terms as a separate unit, and review it on its own merits, and according to its own internal specs. I wouldn't find reducing them all to one function, such as Streamer, conditioner, or even "Network Player" to be very helpful |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 4, 2018 0:46:38 GMT -5
OK - May I ask another stupid question?
The Yamaha MusiCast WXC-50 that I already have can take digital audio input from a host of sources (including Ethernet) and send it out via coaxial digital.
Would this serve the same function as the Micro-Rendu or the SOtM?
And my inevitable follow up question - if not, why not?
I'm not trying to be obstinate (really) - but I do want to understand.
Note that the Yamaha is an audio-only device intended to stream high quality digital audio. It also has its own DAC, but that DAC isn't as good as the other DACs I've tried.
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Post by novisnick on Nov 4, 2018 1:30:05 GMT -5
OK - May I ask another stupid question? The Yamaha MusiCast WXC-50 that I already have can take digital audio input from a host of sources (including Ethernet) and send it out via coaxial digital. Would this serve the same function as the Micro-Rendu or the SOtM? And my inevitable follow up question - if not, why not? I'm not trying to be obstinate (really) - but I do want to understand. Note that the Yamaha is an audio-only device intended to stream high quality digital audio. It also has its own DAC, but that DAC isn't as good as the other DACs I've tried. Refreshing, not a stupid question at all. Seems you’re honestly trying to understand what these devices do, thanks! 😁 there are many lessor streamers on the market and some that are pretty good but they all want to be a all in one solution, ie: plug and Play. And like in so many cases, an AVR just doesn’t rival a component system, at least not at these petty prices. The Yamaha like the Bluenote and others just don’t do the same exact thing, although they try. Seperates built for a specific purpose are most likely to achieve the stated purpose, and when the highest quality is required they do put good time money and research into building the device. You sate that the DAC in the Yamaha isn’t as good as others you many have tried, maybe they didn’t spend much time worring about that or it could be the same exact DAC the you favor but the implementation isnt there to achieve that wonderful sound. At the price point it would appear that the target of SQ is that of a Phi streamer and not that of a High quality device with exceptional sound. I could go on about the efforts and money put into each and every input etc. yes, I do realize Yamaha has great resources and achievements, did they put them into a sub $400 device? 🤔 No. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 4, 2018 1:42:36 GMT -5
OK - That analogy makes sense. It may or may not be completely accurate, but I understand the theory - Even the best engineer can't do as good a job with a $400 budget as (s)he could with an $800 one.
Nevertheless, it seems that there's no cost in trying the Yamaha and seeing if it makes any difference. Keeping to your analogy, if it makes some difference, then the Micro-Rendu or SOtM (at twice the price) should make about twice the difference...
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Post by novisnick on Nov 4, 2018 2:02:10 GMT -5
OK - That analogy makes sense. It may or may not be completely accurate, but I understand the theory - Even the best engineer can't do as good a job with a $400 budget as (s)he could with an $800 one. Nevertheless, it seems that there's no cost in trying the Yamaha and seeing if it makes any difference. Keeping to your analogy, if it makes some difference, then the Micro-Rendu or SOtM (at twice the price) should make about twice the difference... Bear in mind your testing a theory with a cheap streamer which isn’t remotely in the same class of gear as the Senora or sotm. So Im not going to buy your analogy, but what the heck, its there and you have it. I do believe in trying ever piece of hear that comes through my home thoroughly. I’m not as familiar with the Sonora as I am with the sms-200 Ultra SE. The Ultra is a much more Sophisticated then the “box” you’ve been trying to put it into. The Micro-Rendu is more on par with the base unit of the sotm line, the sms-200 which is not the higher tiered sms-200 Ultra or even the sms-200 Ultra SE which I own. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 4, 2018 6:56:41 GMT -5
Measured it with my ears. They said "better...lots better" Mark Your ears hear ones and zeroes? Just like I can feel gravity but I can't see its effect, I can hear the effects of 1's and 0's. But seriously, the ultimate test is how something sounds. LOL! Mark |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 4, 2018 7:14:13 GMT -5
OK - That analogy makes sense. It may or may not be completely accurate, but I understand the theory - Even the best engineer can't do as good a job with a $400 budget as (s)he could with an $800 one. Nevertheless, it seems that there's no cost in trying the Yamaha and seeing if it makes any difference. Keeping to your analogy, if it makes some difference, then the Micro-Rendu or SOtM (at twice the price) should make about twice the difference... Go ahead and try it, but...do not conclude because that one doesn't improve sound that none will. As noted...in my experience an ultrarendu sounds better than a microrendu (and I think but cannot fully confirm that the signature rendu SE sounds better than an ultra...) Mark |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 4, 2018 7:26:48 GMT -5
OK - I understand - I'm trying to compare apples and oranges. The Yamaha isn't either of the devices you're talking about. So buy some of my CDs and gear, and I'll have enough in the cookie jar to try a SOtM or a Rendu!
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Post by foggy1956 on Nov 4, 2018 7:37:49 GMT -5
Your ears hear ones and zeroes? I’m guessing not. Do you like to sit around listening to ones and zeros? He said he measured the digital output with his ears, you explain that to me if its not ones and zeroes? |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 4, 2018 7:39:54 GMT -5
OK - I understand - I'm trying to compare apples and oranges. The Yamaha isn't either of the devices you're talking about. So buy some of my CDs and gear, and I'll have enough in the cookie jar to try a SOtM or a Rendu! Just print up some Benjamin's...that's what I do!  Mark |
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Post by chicagorspec on Nov 4, 2018 7:42:20 GMT -5
I’m guessing not. Do you like to sit around listening to ones and zeros? He said he measured the digital output with his ears, you explain that to me if its not ones and zeroes? Might have taken that a bit too literally. Check the 1s and 0s on your favorite CD to what’s going into your CD player’s DAC if you’re that interested and get back to us, LOL. |
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Post by chicagorspec on Nov 4, 2018 7:43:22 GMT -5
OK - I understand - I'm trying to compare apples and oranges. The Yamaha isn't either of the devices you're talking about. So buy some of my CDs and gear, and I'll have enough in the cookie jar to try a SOtM or a Rendu! Just print up some Benjamin's...that's what I do! Mark Wait a minute, what was all that stuff about living within your means and...? |
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Post by foggy1956 on Nov 4, 2018 7:47:38 GMT -5
He said he measured the digital output with his ears, you explain that to me if its not ones and zeroes? Might have taken that a bit too literally. Check the 1s and 0s on your favorite CD to what’s going into your CD player’s DAC if you’re that interested and get back to us, LOL. The question was, has anyone compared the digital output to the digital input, at that point WTH do his ears have to do with it? |
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Post by chicagorspec on Nov 4, 2018 7:53:26 GMT -5
Everything...with what matters. If you want to compare digital in and digital out I offered you a project.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 4, 2018 9:36:12 GMT -5
This conversation is going no where except around in the same stupid f/ing circles that most audio-related discussions go. Here's the bottom line for you folks. If you want a distributed audio system with one central source for music, then you need a network audio player. There are tons of them, ranging in quality from crap to superb and in cost from free to mid-five-figures. If it's something you want or need in your house then do your research and get into it. If not, don't. Those of us who have are sharing our experiences. But those other of you, please fu'ing quit judging what you have no experience with, it is stupid, tiresome and annoying. I'm out.
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Post by pedrocols on Nov 4, 2018 12:53:42 GMT -5
^^Dreadful indeed!
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Post by liv2teach on Nov 5, 2018 13:42:06 GMT -5
Could someone explain to me where the Micro-Rendu is inserted into the system? Currently have computer feeding dac, then on to pre-amp, amps, and speakers... Where in that chain would one insert the Micro-Rendu?
Thanks
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Post by fbczar on Nov 5, 2018 13:58:07 GMT -5
Could someone explain to me where the Micro-Rendu is inserted into the system? Currently have computer feeding dac, then on to pre-amp, amps, and speakers... Where in that chain would one insert the Micro-Rendu? Thanks The microRendu connects to your network via ethernet. It then connects to your DAC via USB. You use a software program like Roon or Audirvana on your computer to control the music files on, usually, a NAS. Most control playback with an iPad or iPhone, but you can control playback with your computer, albeit less conveniently. |
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Post by liv2teach on Nov 5, 2018 19:35:53 GMT -5
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Post by fbczar on Nov 5, 2018 20:36:08 GMT -5
Did anyone in the thread you provided the link to actually listen to the microRendu? |
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