|
|
Post by qdtjni on Nov 3, 2018 16:20:37 GMT -5
Use Your Ears.  Amazing. One group has heard the microRendu and UltraRendu and universally likes what it does. Another group has not heard either the microRendu or UltraRendu, does not like the concept that electrical noise reduction could improve system sound, demands measurements as proof of the virtues of the devices and refuses any possibility of hearing it for themselves. I really did have a few of these devices, which I've stated more than once. I'll give the benefit of a doubt that you just happened to miss that and not deliberately ignored it. |
|
|
|
Post by qdtjni on Nov 3, 2018 16:24:48 GMT -5
...One group has heard the microRendu and UltraRendu and universally likes what it does. Another group has not heard either...does not like the concept...and refuses any possibility of hearing it... 's got a point, there. I, for one, will eventually hear it. No, he doesn't, I've owned them and did not have the same hallelujah experience. That said, I still think you should test it yourself. |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Nov 3, 2018 16:48:48 GMT -5
Hypothesis (in the absence of all facts): The worse the handling (by your DAC) of noise and jitter, the greater the beneficial effect of a conditioner. True - False - Likely - Unlikely? And why...
But if it's true, then the converse must also be true:
The better the handling / suppression / rejection (by your DAC) of noise & jitter, the less the beneficial effect of a conditioner will be.
|
|
DYohn
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 18,494
|
Post by DYohn on Nov 3, 2018 16:52:40 GMT -5
Hypothesis (in the absence of all facts): The worse the handling (by your DAC) of noise and jitter, the greater the beneficial effect of a conditioner. True - False - Likely - Unlikely? And why... But if it's true, then the converse must also be true: The better the handling / suppression / rejection (by your DAC) of noise & jitter, the less the beneficial effect of a conditioner will be. Likely true, but none of the products I've been talking about are "conditioners." |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Nov 3, 2018 16:55:06 GMT -5
But aren't the Micro-Rendu and the SOtM "conditioners?"
|
|
|
|
Post by qdtjni on Nov 3, 2018 17:09:30 GMT -5
But aren't the Micro-Rendu and the SOtM "conditioners?" The idea is that these players generate less noise than for instance a Mac Mini, where a conditioner sits in between the player device and your DAC. |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Nov 3, 2018 17:13:54 GMT -5
That's what I thought. So they ARE "conditioners!"
|
|
|
|
Post by qdtjni on Nov 3, 2018 17:19:17 GMT -5
That's what I thought. So they ARE "conditioners!" They are supposed to generate less noise rather than a conditioner that is supposed to remove noise from a noisy source. So no but yes but no.  |
|
DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,494
|
Post by DYohn on Nov 3, 2018 17:31:14 GMT -5
But aren't the Micro-Rendu and the SOtM "conditioners?" Not at all. They are computers that receive data streams via Ethernet with specific player software to decode it and output via USB (or other digital carrier.) A conditioner would be the Jitterbug thing you posted earlier. |
|
|
|
Post by wilburthegoose on Nov 3, 2018 17:42:59 GMT -5
I too would like to read results from a naysayer. I'd be very happy if I were proved wrong. Here's a problem with improvements - I watched the Queen movie, and popped in a DVD of Live Aid. Spent about 2 hours watching Disc 2 (the one containing the Queen gig in London). Really enjoyed it. Surprisingly good DTS 5.1 audio, but a 480i picture (obviously). When I was done, flipped to a NBA game on ESPN. 720p (upscaled by my TV to 4k) looked like 4k because I became used to the old 480i picture. The same thing happens in audio too. I have 2 cars, both of which I just did really nice audio upgrades on. When we first got into "Car 1" my wife and I were shocked at how great it sounded. Now, a month later, we're used to it, and the thrill is gone  (Car 2 was just done yesterday, so I'm still appreciating the vastly improved AQ) |
|
|
|
Post by chicagorspec on Nov 3, 2018 18:36:14 GMT -5
I too would like to read results from a naysayer. I'd be very happy if I were proved wrong. Here's a problem with improvements - I watched the Queen movie, and popped in a DVD of Live Aid. Spent about 2 hours watching Disc 2 (the one containing the Queen gig in London). Really enjoyed it. Surprisingly good DTS 5.1 audio, but a 480i picture (obviously). When I was done, flipped to a NBA game on ESPN. 720p (upscaled by my TV to 4k) looked like 4k because I became used to the old 480i picture. The same thing happens in audio too. I have 2 cars, both of which I just did really nice audio upgrades on. When we first got into "Car 1" my wife and I were shocked at how great it sounded. Now, a month later, we're used to it, and the thrill is gone (Car 2 was just done yesterday, so I'm still appreciating the vastly improved AQ) If every improvement you do seems ho-hum later, and you enjoy what you have now, it sounds like staying the course is an easy and cheap solution for you. Nothing wrong with that if it brings you pleasure. Others may have a different situation/path. |
|
klinemj
Emo VIPs
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,096
|
Post by klinemj on Nov 3, 2018 18:41:01 GMT -5
That's what I thought. So they ARE "conditioners!" Stop worrying about what to call them and just try one of the good ones. And frankly...if you want to think of this differently...think of this. A "conditioner" to me is not where something sits...it's what it does. To me, a "conditioner" removes something. Other things just fail to add issues that other things do add...and the absence of the issues can sound better. Not saying that's what these do...but to me it doesn't matter what they do or what they are called. Call them "rumplestilskin-like-things" if you want. They just sound good. Mark |
|
DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,494
|
Post by DYohn on Nov 3, 2018 19:10:55 GMT -5
That's what I thought. So they ARE "conditioners!" No, they are not. Stop being so damn hard headed. |
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on Nov 3, 2018 19:19:18 GMT -5
That's what I thought. So they ARE "conditioners!" No, they are not. Stop being so damn hard headed. Seems that everybody has nothing to say and they STILL aren’t listening! 🙈🙉🙊 |
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on Nov 3, 2018 19:29:49 GMT -5
But aren't the Micro-Rendu and the SOtM "conditioners?" My friend, 🛑 stop, please, please just ✋ stop. With all my love and respcet, U-N-C-L-E they are Not conditioners or anything you’re familiar with I would venture to guess. 😁 |
|
|
|
Post by chicagorspec on Nov 3, 2018 20:12:48 GMT -5
That's what I thought. So they ARE "conditioners!" No, they are not. Stop being so damn hard headed. So Boom, an honest question. Would you then consider a Mac Mini a "conditioner"? |
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on Nov 3, 2018 20:18:20 GMT -5
But aren't the Micro-Rendu and the SOtM "conditioners?" Not at all. They are computers that receive data streams via Ethernet with specific player software to decode it and output via USB (or other digital carrier.) A conditioner would be the Jitterbug thing you posted earlier. If they are computers, shouldn't it be verifiable that what is coming in is also what is going out digitally? |
|
klinemj
Emo VIPs
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,096
|
Post by klinemj on Nov 3, 2018 20:37:39 GMT -5
Not at all. They are computers that receive data streams via Ethernet with specific player software to decode it and output via USB (or other digital carrier.) A conditioner would be the Jitterbug thing you posted earlier. If they are computers, shouldn't it be verifiable that what is coming in is also what is going out digitally? Measured it with my ears. They said "better...lots better" Mark |
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on Nov 3, 2018 20:43:05 GMT -5
If they are computers, shouldn't it be verifiable that what is coming in is also what is going out digitally? Measured it with my ears. They said "better...lots better" Mark Your ears hear ones and zeroes? |
|
|
|
Post by chicagorspec on Nov 3, 2018 21:17:02 GMT -5
Measured it with my ears. They said "better...lots better" Mark Your ears hear ones and zeroes? I’m guessing not. Do you like to sit around listening to ones and zeros? |
|
(Car 2 was just done yesterday, so I'm still appreciating the vastly improved AQ)
