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Post by pedrocols on Oct 26, 2018 11:20:45 GMT -5
Me? iPad➡️microRendu➡️DAC. Yes life is this simple.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Oct 26, 2018 18:49:47 GMT -5
It's a VERY simple set up. Here's how I do it:
1. I have a lifetime license to Roon. I used it this way for about 9 months. I have about 25K tracks on my PC (all FLAC), and it works great.
2. I did the trial of Tidal. Easy to set up - took me about 5 minutes. Enter your Tidal credentials into Roon, and your library volume just increased by about 10000%
3. Once you set it up in Roon, your own library and Tidal are seamlessly integrated.
4. Nothing prevents me from using Tidal without Roon. I do it in my car all the time.
I liked Tidal so much that I upped my subscription to the uncompressed audio. It's $20 per month that I really get a lot of use from - I'm playing music all the time in my home office.
IT'S EASY, FAST, AND FUN.
As a long-ago Nike employee, like our colleague here earlier, "Just Do It!"
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Post by novisnick on Oct 26, 2018 19:13:40 GMT -5
Boomzilla ^ ☝️ What he said. My version was going to be about the technical side if improvements. The hi end of Tidal, Roon and PC integration ie; why going to the extreme and spending the coin is worth it IMHO
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Post by novisnick on Oct 26, 2018 19:47:17 GMT -5
Boomzilla and bluemeaniesWhy we don’t connect our PC to the DAC. A direct feed from a PC of any sort is the worst sounding data stream (music) you can hear, especially USB. We use USB as it will carry the highest signal available besides 2iS and not many systems use that. There is so much noise and magnetic fields, add in a few cheap clockes inside the PC on top of the main SMPS. Then the junk coming from the screen, keyboard and mouse! Geezzzus! Your killing me and the music. we need to output the music in such a way to leave that mess behind, fortunately we can, via ethernet. Cat 5 will do but cat 6 or 7 is better. This stream is done in packets which require proper clocking. So much for a direct connection to the DAC. Sending the music to another computer designed to eliminate all of that mess is where our solution is found. NAA, Network Audio Adapter such as the micro Rendu or the sotm sms-200 ULTRA which converts ethernet to USB. This is a better way to feed the DAC as we will have added a galvanic isolation. With the sotm we’ve also added a TOTL reclocker which is most important. Clocking and timing is everything when dealing with moving data or packets. To soon or too late and the clock and computer need to request the data again, corrupting the music and adding noise , at the same time stressing the processors of both PC and NAA CPU. Now we have a completely clean signal to feed your DAC, hopefully its of sufficient quality to maximize the upgrade you’ve just incorporated into your system. Ok, Im off in the weeds providing way more info then required. But its so fun and interesting on how it all works. Heres how I enjoy my digital library and Tidal HiFi subscription: My Mac Mini and network player (sotm/ NAA) is always on, same as my DAC. HOT gear sounds better. (Long story about why it should stay on, ask if you dare! 😋) 1)Fire up Preamp and then amps 2)plop down in big chair 3)access Roon app on IPAD 4)select my music and enjoy
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 26, 2018 19:59:37 GMT -5
My simple version of what Nick said is...you might be shocked at how good digital sounds through a device like the rendu series or the sotm options. I just had a first hand experience with chicagorspec in which we listened to Carole King via the ERC-3 and then via a rendu. The difference was immediately apparent...very obvious. Mark |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 26, 2018 20:36:24 GMT -5
My simple version of what Nick said is...you might be shocked at how good digital sounds through a device like the rendu series or the sotm options. I just had a first hand experience with chicagorspec in which we listened to Carole King via the ERC-3 and then via a rendu. The difference was immediately apparent...very obvious. Mark Yep! Thanks Mark! My GEEK got loose! LOL LOVE THE MUSIC AND TECH. 😁🎶♥️ |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 27, 2018 5:03:46 GMT -5
So, novisnick, as I understand you: The problem with computer audio output in ANY digital format is noise generated by the computer? And you're recommending a "clean up box" between the computer and the DAC to remove that noise? And your preferred interface (between the computer and the magic box is ETHERNET? Sorry, but this sounds like junk science to me. Where is the data justifying these claims? Both USB and optical TOSLINK are good enough for high-speed data transfer with NO losses (otherwise, your outboard HDD wouldn't work), yet the same music data that makes it from the HDD to your computer with ZERO loss isn't good enough to make it from the computer to the DAC without a magic box in-between? |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 27, 2018 6:14:43 GMT -5
So, novisnick, as I understand you: The problem with computer audio output in ANY digital format is noise generated by the computer? And you're recommending a "clean up box" between the computer and the DAC to remove that noise? And your preferred interface (between the computer and the magic box is ETHERNET? Sorry, but this sounds like junk science to me. Where is the data justifying these claims? Both USB and optical TOSLINK are good enough for high-speed data transfer with NO losses (otherwise, your outboard HDD wouldn't work), yet the same music data that makes it from the HDD to your computer with ZERO loss isn't good enough to make it from the computer to the DAC without a magic box in-between? Honestly, I did not believe a microrendu would make the difference it did vs. providing music from my PC or my Sonos Connect to my DAC. But...it did. It was the biggest single difference I have heard in my system in recent years, and it was obvious. Why? I don't know. But, the sound is amazing. That I re-created what I described with Carole King in my reviews of the micro- and ultraRendu during my visit w/chicagorspec and he heard it loud and clear tells me it's no fluke. So, whatever the reason is, I like it. (And recall, I am a super-techie guy who really wants to know "why" on everything...and I was a rendu skeptic...) Mark |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Oct 27, 2018 6:51:12 GMT -5
Boomzilla - I listen to my digital music a few ways: 1. Use my Oppo UDP-203 as the endpoint and send the audio to my XMC-1 via HDMI. Sound quality is excellent. 2. Use my Chromecast Ultra endpoint and send the audio to my XMC-1 via direct-connect HDMI. Sound quality is excellent, but it doesn't pass high-res audio (it passes standard res) 3. Use my PC and send the audio to my XMC-1 via USB. (The PC runs on a 2TB SSD and has 32GB of memory). Sound quality is excellent. 4. Use a Raspberry PI that I built with a HiFi Berry Card, and send the audio to my Denon AVR-4311 via optical (home office). Sound quality is very good (mostly because I'm only using monitor speakers, and the Denon isn't nearly as good as the XMC-1) 5. Use the speakers on my iPhone or iPad. Not great quality, but it works in a pinch. I don't have any MQA clients. PS - Info on the microRendu: roonlabs.com/partners/sonore.html
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Post by novisnick on Oct 27, 2018 8:18:55 GMT -5
So, novisnick , as I understand you: The problem with computer audio output in ANY digital format is noise generated by the computer? And you're recommending a "clean up box" between the computer and the DAC to remove that noise? And your preferred interface (between the computer and the magic box is ETHERNET? Sorry, but this sounds like junk science to me. Where is the data justifying these claims? Both USB and optical TOSLINK are good enough for high-speed data transfer with NO losses (otherwise, your outboard HDD wouldn't work), yet the same music data that makes it from the HDD to your computer with ZERO loss isn't good enough to make it from the computer to the DAC without a magic box in-between? No magic boxes my friend! A three second sampling of the SQ was enough to keep my purchase of the sotm NAA. Obviously I didn’t convey my information properly! I failed to enlighten and expand the knowledge of thoses that haven’t experienced such an upgrade in SQ. My fault, sorry. your a bit is bits guy it seems, and your missing the boat IMHO. |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 27, 2018 8:21:12 GMT -5
So, novisnick , as I understand you: The problem with computer audio output in ANY digital format is noise generated by the computer? And you're recommending a "clean up box" between the computer and the DAC to remove that noise? And your preferred interface (between the computer and the magic box is ETHERNET? Sorry, but this sounds like junk science to me. Where is the data justifying these claims? Both USB and optical TOSLINK are good enough for high-speed data transfer with NO losses (otherwise, your outboard HDD wouldn't work), yet the same music data that makes it from the HDD to your computer with ZERO loss isn't good enough to make it from the computer to the DAC without a magic box in-between? Honestly, I did not believe a microrendu would make the difference it did vs. providing music from my PC or my Sonos Connect to my DAC. But...it did. It was the biggest single difference I have heard in my system in recent years, and it was obvious. Why? I don't know. But, the sound is amazing. That I re-created what I described with Carole King in my reviews of the micro- and ultraRendu during my visit w/chicagorspec and he heard it loud and clear tells me it's no fluke. So, whatever the reason is, I like it. (And recall, I am a super-techie guy who really wants to know "why" on everything...and I was a rendu skeptic...) Mark OMG! YOU have a magic box too! 😲 |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 27, 2018 9:01:03 GMT -5
Folks, you really need to view this informative video to better grasp what I canseem to explain properly. Boomzillaklinemj |
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Post by chicagorspec on Oct 27, 2018 11:10:48 GMT -5
So, novisnick, as I understand you: The problem with computer audio output in ANY digital format is noise generated by the computer? And you're recommending a "clean up box" between the computer and the DAC to remove that noise? And your preferred interface (between the computer and the magic box is ETHERNET? Sorry, but this sounds like junk science to me. Where is the data justifying these claims? Both USB and optical TOSLINK are good enough for high-speed data transfer with NO losses (otherwise, your outboard HDD wouldn't work), yet the same music data that makes it from the HDD to your computer with ZERO loss isn't good enough to make it from the computer to the DAC without a magic box in-between? Honestly, I did not believe a microrendu would make the difference it did vs. providing music from my PC or my Sonos Connect to my DAC. But...it did. It was the biggest single difference I have heard in my system in recent years, and it was obvious. Why? I don't know. But, the sound is amazing. That I re-created what I described with Carole King in my reviews of the micro- and ultraRendu during my visit w/chicagorspec and he heard it loud and clear tells me it's no fluke. So, whatever the reason is, I like it. (And recall, I am a super-techie guy who really wants to know "why" on everything...and I was a rendu skeptic...) Mark When Mark was here, we cued up Carole King on the ERC-3, then immediately listened to the same track ("So Far Away") via Tidal/SGC sonictransporter/Rendu. In the first two seconds of her starting to sing, I said to Mark it was as though she decided to come out of the coffee can into the room for the performance; not subtle. I don't know what element(s) this was specifically attributable to, nor do I know if the Tidal track was the same mastering as Mark's CD, but I can tell you the improvement is not likely due to my high-end cabling. As a recent new user of these streaming elements, I've started out with simple "get it up and running" functionality, and am using both Ethernet cables (2; router --> ST, ST --> Rendu) and a USB cable purchased from Wal-Mart for well less than ten bucks each. |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 27, 2018 11:28:31 GMT -5
Honestly, I did not believe a microrendu would make the difference it did vs. providing music from my PC or my Sonos Connect to my DAC. But...it did. It was the biggest single difference I have heard in my system in recent years, and it was obvious. Why? I don't know. But, the sound is amazing. That I re-created what I described with Carole King in my reviews of the micro- and ultraRendu during my visit w/chicagorspec and he heard it loud and clear tells me it's no fluke. So, whatever the reason is, I like it. (And recall, I am a super-techie guy who really wants to know "why" on everything...and I was a rendu skeptic...) Mark When Mark was here, we cued up Carole King on the ERC-3, then immediately listened to the same track ("So Far Away") via Tidal/SGC sonictransporter/Rendu. In the first two seconds of her starting to sing, I said to Mark it was as though she decided to come out of the coffee can into the room for the performance; not subtle. I don't know what element(s) this was specifically attributable to, nor do I know if the Tidal track was the same mastering as Mark's CD, but I can tell you the improvement is not likely due to my high-end cabling. As a recent new user of these streaming elements, I've started out with simple "get it up and running" functionality, and am using both Ethernet cables (2; router --> ST, ST --> Rendu) and a USB cable purchased from Wal-Mart for well less than ten bucks each. Hearing IS believing! Thanks for the post. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 27, 2018 12:08:44 GMT -5
Honestly, I did not believe a microrendu would make the difference it did vs. providing music from my PC or my Sonos Connect to my DAC. But...it did. It was the biggest single difference I have heard in my system in recent years, and it was obvious. Why? I don't know. But, the sound is amazing. That I re-created what I described with Carole King in my reviews of the micro- and ultraRendu during my visit w/chicagorspec and he heard it loud and clear tells me it's no fluke. So, whatever the reason is, I like it. (And recall, I am a super-techie guy who really wants to know "why" on everything...and I was a rendu skeptic...) Mark When Mark was here, we cued up Carole King on the ERC-3, then immediately listened to the same track ("So Far Away") via Tidal/SGC sonictransporter/Rendu. In the first two seconds of her starting to sing, I said to Mark it was as though she decided to come out of the coffee can into the room for the performance; not subtle. I don't know what element(s) this was specifically attributable to, nor do I know if the Tidal track was the same mastering as Mark's CD, but I can tell you the improvement is not likely due to my high-end cabling. As a recent new user of these streaming elements, I've started out with simple "get it up and running" functionality, and am using both Ethernet cables (2; router --> ST, ST --> Rendu) and a USB cable purchased from Wal-Mart for well less than ten bucks each. One thing to add...while I originally heard the difference on PC USB out to DAC vs. microRendu (and also ultraRendu) USB out to DAC yet chicagorspec and I heard it on his system ERC-3 to a different rendu, what I heard at his place was exactly what I heard at mine. And...again, I was actually shocked when I heard it at home. I thought EXACTLY was Boomzilla typed above prior to hearing it. I was wrr...wrrrrr...wrrrrrrrr...wwwwrrrrrrrong! (Think Fonzie for a moment...). I was quite pleased that I heard the same thing in a different system and that it was confirmed by other ears. Also, when I listened at home, my source was exactly the same mastering...my CD of Tapestry ripped in FLAC to my NAS...single variable PC vs. rendu product...and I heard it just like we did at chicagorspec's house. Being wrong cost me about $1500...the ultrarendu, a power supply, and Roon lifetime. But, I am very happy. Mark |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 27, 2018 13:40:22 GMT -5
Bits aint just Bits!
Timing and clocks require precision. Smear and jitter are a Beeeach! That lesson comes later. It’s real, no magic at all!
OH, one more thing, magnetic fields suck the life out of them dare bits too! 😂
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Post by wilburthegoose on Oct 27, 2018 16:31:58 GMT -5
Magnetic fields? My PC has no magnetic media!
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Post by pedrocols on Oct 27, 2018 17:41:18 GMT -5
Wow already 3 pages. You guys really have too much time in your hands.😂
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Post by chicagorspec on Oct 27, 2018 18:20:10 GMT -5
Says the guy who lives here...
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 27, 2018 18:27:12 GMT -5
OK, guys - we're back to the argument that my friend Russel makes about his ripping. He claims that computer data transfer protocols aren't "good enough" for music bits. His claim is that If I make a rip through my computer and he rips the same disc through his "magical not-computer" that EVEN THOUGH WE BOTH HAVE IDENTICAL BIT-PERFECT COPIES - his will sound better than mine.
I claimed BS - AND YOU GUYS AGREED WITH ME! Yet NOW you're claiming that Russel is right?
You can't have it both ways. Either a bit perfect copy is a bit perfect copy or it's something else. The bit-perfect copy that comes from your micro-hooptie is the ABSOLUTE SAME bit-perfect copy that came out of the computer itself. Your Rendu can't create quality that's not there in the first place. If it's changing the bits, then that's one thing - but if what came out of the Rendu is a bit-perfect, identical file to what went in (NO MEASURABLE DIFFERENCE - a bit-perfect copy IS a bit-perfect copy), then by definition there is no difference. Yet you're saying that one identical digital copy is somehow "better sounding" from passing through the micro-whooptie-do? WTF?
Either everything (EVERYTHING) that we know about digital data is wrong, or else you're fooling yourselves.
And NO - Don't feed me any BS about your magic box removing jitter and noise either. What comes out of ANY current computer is ALREADY clean clear through. And if you think that the jitter and noise IS what's being removed from the computer output, then you're already too late. Any digital jitter or noise has already "done its dirty" on your bits when they flowed from your external USB HDD to your computer or from the internet to your computer. And this is completely ignoring all the times (probably more than a dozen - maybe as many as a hundred?) that the music file you're listening to got transferred from recording computer to mixing board to DSP studio to disc-mastering board to cd-stamper, etc. etc. etc.
Claiming that a magic-filter at the complete rear end of the audio chain makes up for all the digital data transfers upstream is not scientifically credible (no more than a "magic power cord" can make a difference at the rear end of a noisy municipal power system).
Wave a chicken bone over the thing and cry "mumba-mojumba" - Should provide an equivalent change...
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