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Post by leonski on Nov 20, 2018 16:15:48 GMT -5
I've been a panel owner for 30+ years.
My room is not optimum for such speakers and I've done the best I can short of adding some kind of room addition or other big project.
I'm sure diffusion would help.......and would be adaptable to any new system going forward.
So, I'm sort of thinking going an opposite direction.
First? I'm going to go and listen to some high sensitivity speakers. Something north of 92db or 93db (1 meter / 1 watt). 98db+ would be NICE.
Second? Buy / Build the ACA of about 8 watts a side. The very highest sensitivity speakers do NOT need any more power than that for huge levels.
Third? Buy / Build speakers. Good kits from Madisound, while Fostex publishes plans for good enclosures. Sourcing GOOD materials might be a problem
but Baltic Birch or even PlyBoo would be on the table. It's open if I go full range, single driver, or get a larger driver for better bass and add a tweeter.
Fourth? Sell......current speakers AND amps.
Fifth? Install / tune in.
If new speakers are 2-way I MIGHT buy a 2nd ACA and go with a MiniDSP for crossover. I don't know enough yet, but will 'educate' myself.
It is still open if I'd go stand mount / monitor OR go all the way to a transmission line or ported which is a more detailed build.
The cool part, is upon first noodle, this change is ALMOST revenue neutral. Single ended Class 'A' coupled with high sensitivity speakers is Almost a holy grail situation in
audio.
Sub will be kept and might than be ONLY used for movie duties. Wait and listen... It is also possible to add some room treatments at this time at little or no additional cost.
The wider dispersion but NO backwave of the proposed speakers make a difference which might be easier to 'tune in' with various room panels.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 20, 2018 16:27:11 GMT -5
Good plan, and can be loads of fun. For high-efficiency designs don't overlook pro audio drivers, and for woofers check out Acoustic Elegance.
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Post by leonski on Nov 20, 2018 16:41:43 GMT -5
Thanks, DY, I'll give everything a look before making a move. Large, like 10" or larger, woofers, are probably OUT, since I already have a large sub (really goes to 16hz) and ONE goal which
is possible is reduced footprint of system.
Panels take up a LOT of space.
Another possible, but not likely, would be some kind of Open Baffle system.
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Post by pknaz on Nov 20, 2018 17:13:28 GMT -5
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Post by audiobill on Nov 20, 2018 18:51:45 GMT -5
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DYohn
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Posts: 18,487
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Post by DYohn on Nov 20, 2018 18:56:48 GMT -5
Thanks, DY, I'll give everything a look before making a move. Large, like 10" or larger, woofers, are probably OUT, since I already have a large sub (really goes to 16hz) and ONE goal which is possible is reduced footprint of system. Panels take up a LOT of space. Another possible, but not likely, would be some kind of Open Baffle system. AE woofers are great in OB configuration and are super efficient. Don't be biased that "large diameter" drivers means only low bass. I've built several 2-way systems using a 12" woofer crossed at 800-1000 Hz. Sounds great. |
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Post by gld3gld3 on Nov 20, 2018 20:01:56 GMT -5
This sounds like a fun adventure! I came close to pulling the trigger on a pair of ACAs a few months ago! Those AN kits are also drool inducing. Ultimately I am holding out to see what the new "Aegir" Schiit amp delivers (High class A bias and constant transconductance in AB) before I decide on my next upgrade/change in my system.
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Post by leonski on Nov 20, 2018 20:52:14 GMT -5
The ACA amp is Single Ended Class 'A'. About as far away from A/B as you can get.
Single ended? Means it is NOT a push/pull design so ONE output device is the drive to the speaker.
How much $$$ is the AudioNote 300b? I'm reluctant to go tube, but for the sake of intellectually honesty, must at least LOOK at 'em.
As for 12" OB speakers? We start getting back to footprint. And wall spacing. With proper front ported tower OR stand mount speakers, I can put 'em BACK nearly
to the wall. That gains me about 2 feet of distance to the lietener AND narrows the 'triangle' to the main sweet spot.
I'm going to limit myself to 2x whatever amp I choose AND at that time, depending on documentation (how known a problem I'm setting myself) will decide on line level or speaker crossover.
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Post by leonski on Nov 20, 2018 20:57:53 GMT -5
I see 8 watts AND 2500$ WAY out of my $$$ range.
And I think it's a push/pull deisgn? 2x output tubes are either in parallel or push/pull. I don't know of a 3rd choice.
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Post by leonski on Nov 20, 2018 21:00:23 GMT -5
With all due respect AND since I tend to agree with you, I think DIY speakers needs its OWN THREAD. So many directions here, that I'm trying to LIMIT myself to what is both not $$$ (over the top) AND doable with a minimal toolset. Please feel free to begin such thread and I'll be over in a few minutes::: |
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Post by leonski on Nov 20, 2018 23:24:09 GMT -5
Bottlehead makes a 300b kit, as well. Stereo is 2500$ with a few 'goodies' which are otherwise optional. Again, about 8 a side. bottlehead.com/product/kaijulimited/It took me a couple minutes to remember these guys. I'd seen 'em a few years ago but wasn't 'in the market'. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Nov 21, 2018 20:48:23 GMT -5
My 20 cents, based on adding a sub woofer to my stereo system over 30 years ago. Way back, when I had a 10 WPC Class A stereo amp, it didn't take much brain power to work out that there was something missing, sure there was bass but it lacked punch, that live sound impact when the drummer kicks it. I built my own speakers, cross overs and power amps back then and so adding a subwoofer was not that difficult. The clincher was when I compared the cost of that compared to upgrading the speakers to handle down to ~20 hz and then a quality amp big enough to drive them. The cost was something like 4 times as much, so going the subwoofer route was an easy decision. But boy did I get some flack for it, "a true stereophile didn't run 2.1", that was sacrilege to many. In all that time, with the passing of many amps and almost as many speakers, I haven't change that opinion. To get the equivalent sound out a 2.0 system costs many multiples of what it does out of a 2.1 system. With lower power Class A amps it's even more obvious.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by leonski on Nov 21, 2018 22:18:55 GMT -5
I think the matter has been settled, at least for now. x.1 or whatever is now the defacto standard. Even some integreted amps, like the Parasound Halo will include bass management and have no lack of power or ability to 'drive' bass. The cost of a speaker with native response down to say.....below 30hz and fairly flat can be pretty much. I'm not talking about 10db down @30, but rather maybe 3db down or so. AND at low distortion.
My speakers are rumored to be 'good' to mid-30s. give or take.
But by restricting them to maybe 45hz to 50hz, not only do I cut lowest octave power draw but also lowest octave distortion. Let the sub do what it does best.
I wonder just how much bass you CAN get out of maybe 96db speakers or greater. I mean, 86db would be 1/10th of a watt.......giving LOTS of headroom to an 8 watt redline.
Would my proposed ACA amp drive my 84 or 85db panels? Sure. Why not? But not well OR loudly.
That's why, for me, anyway, 'part 1' is to find some high sensitivity speakers which float my boat.
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Post by Gary Cook on Nov 22, 2018 1:47:36 GMT -5
My speakers are 91 db efficient (@ 1 x 1) and, crossed over at ~65 hz to the sub, they are plenty loud at ~5 watts. But change to full range (drop the sub) and they lose impact, meaning more watts are required. Obviously at the lower frequencies the speakers need more power to drive them.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by pknaz on Nov 22, 2018 8:35:19 GMT -5
Hoffman’s law: low frequency extension, size, efficiency, pick two.
Nothing about distortion levels are dictated, but can be inferred when size is a constrain. My towers play with authority down to low 30’s/high 20’s (measured) and are about 88/89db/1w/1m.
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