Control 4

[Bonzo]

I was just at one of my local stereo stores today and talked to them about what they use for full home music systems. They use Control 4.

So my question is, are there any members here who use that system?

If so, can you post your opinions?

Thanks.

[vcautokid]

I have helped install components for Control 4 and have taken the associate programmer course. It is very comprehensive and capable. We used it for lights audio and video control and it did well. When Crestron was out. We used Control 4.

[wilburthegoose]

I was in a high-end store once who was using a Control 4. I loved it, but couldn't afford it at the time.

[klinemj]

I looked into it a long time ago but never found a compelling need for me to get it.

Mark

[pallpoul]

I have Control4 installed at my house, it does everything, nice and smooth. I can't tinker with it, only my installer can, and that what I hate about it,.. I have to call him every time I have new piece of equipment, granted he changes things remotely but I can't mess with it myself, a blessing and a curse I guess.

Be prepared to pay your yearly subscription to use the app, silly imo.

It controls almost everything electrical, security system, lights, pool, scenes,, blinds, music,...I mean all, you name it. Ios and android apps are really good and responsive.

For music I don't use it much, but for everything else it works great.

[Bonzo]

Dec 2, 2018 10:51:46 GMT -5 pallpoul said:

I have Control4 installed at my house, it does everything, nice and smooth. I can't tinker with it, only my installer can, and that what I hate about it,.. I have to call him every time I have new piece of equipment, granted he changes things remotely but I can't mess with it myself, a blessing and a curse I guess.

Be prepared to pay your yearly subscription to use the app, silly imo.

It controls almost everything electrical, security system, lights, pool, scenes,, blinds, music,...I mean all, you name it. Ios and android apps are really good and responsive.

For music I don't use it much, but for everything else it works great.

Great information, just what I'm looking for.

Yearly Ap subscription? Thats bogus. I can see paying for it once, but yearly? And how much?

I also don't like not being able to alter things myself.

I'm also not sure about the remote control. Seems a little too Harmonyish to me.

I'm very interested in adding full house music with in ceiling speakers. I can do it without a system, but then it's much less flexible to operate. A good system will also let me add bells and whistles like lights, door locks, thermostat, garage door and window blinds.

Unfortunately it seems its all a little give and take. Nothing is perfect.

I would prefer something less proprietary but they all seem to be that way to some extent.

[Bonzo]

Dec 2, 2018 10:34:40 GMT -5 klinemj said:

I looked into it a long time ago but never found a compelling need for me to get it.

Mark

I know you did Sonos for music. I think what if offers is fantastic. But I thought you had to use Sonos speakers for everything, no? I know you have some Def Techs out on your deck. Can you drive those using Sonos?

[Deleted]

When Escient screwed everyone by cutting the proxy server which is necessary to finalize the OS after a new HDD xn, we had to find a new controller for some of the equipment. A French audiophile/programmer recommended the Control 4. They can be had for a good price on ebay. There are hackers out there who are going neat things with some of the older models. The guy was controlling everything in his system via RS-232 & network and then some.

[klinemj]

Dec 2, 2018 13:38:40 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Dec 2, 2018 10:34:40 GMT -5 klinemj said:

I looked into it a long time ago but never found a compelling need for me to get it.

Mark

I know you did Sonos for music. I think what if offers is fantastic. But I thought you had to use Sonos speakers for everything, no? I know you have some Def Techs out on your deck. Can you drive those using Sonos?

You do not have to use Sonos speakers with their units...you can use any you want. The Sonos Connect Amp is an internet "tuner/amp" so it pulls in all the sources you want and amplifies it to standard amp outputs. I still have those driving my Def Techs on the back deck and in our master bath, some Polks in my great room, some Sony's in my kitchen, and some in wall speakers in my hot tub room and master bedroom. The Sonos Connect is an internet "tuner", and inputs either digital out or analog out. I am using one analog out to a Rotel amp that powers the Def Tech's by my pool. I used to have 1 other Sonos Connect's...1 at my headphone system (digital out to a DC-1) and 1 with my critical listening area running digital out to my Geek DAC.

Their speakers, from what I know, are "all in one" units with the tuner, the amp, and the speakers all in one box. I had 1 "Play 5" in my office but I switched to using Airmotivs there off my PC. You can get as many as you like and "group" them to play together in a room as a stereo pair or...whatever.

Mark

[Bonzo]

Dec 2, 2018 18:14:46 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Dec 2, 2018 13:38:40 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

I know you did Sonos for music. I think what if offers is fantastic. But I thought you had to use Sonos speakers for everything, no? I know you have some Def Techs out on your deck. Can you drive those using Sonos?

You do not have to use Sonos speakers with their units...you can use any you want. The Sonos Connect Amp is an internet "tuner/amp" so it pulls in all the sources you want and amplifies it to standard amp outputs. I still have those driving my Def Techs on the back deck and in our master bath, some Polks in my great room, some Sony's in my kitchen, and some in wall speakers in my hot tub room and master bedroom. The Sonos Connect is an internet "tuner", and inputs either digital out or analog out. I am using one analog out to a Rotel amp that powers the Def Tech's by my pool. I used to have 1 other Sonos Connect's...1 at my headphone system (digital out to a DC-1) and 1 with my critical listening area running digital out to my Geek DAC.

Their speakers, from what I know, are "all in one" units with the tuner, the amp, and the speakers all in one box. I had 1 "Play 5" in my office but I switched to using Airmotivs there off my PC. You can get as many as you like and "group" them to play together in a room as a stereo pair or...whatever.

Mark

Great info. Thanks.

I guess I did my reading quite a while ago because I was only familiar with the speakers being all in one. If I can use ceiling speakers of my choosing than it makes it much more viable.

If you have time, could you make a quick diagram of where in the chain the Sonos unit falls? Assuming I have the following: computer/ethernet, CD player, processor, multi-channel amp made for whole house systems, ceiling speakers. I'm going to do some Google searching now myself.

What my sales guy and others try to sell on something like the Control 4, is that you only need it and it's app to control everything. That sounds cool in words and looks great on paper, but I'm not sure I want it that way or even like it. Right now I have 2 smart things in my house, the garage door opener and my thermostat. I have 2 separate apps to make it work. I like it that way. I don't find it inconvenient at all. I have both apps in their own folder on my phone, so it's simple. I have the peace of mind that if something happens to one, the other will still work. I think it's more secure having 2 separate apps that can't get mixed together, or 1 hack takes all. The way I see it, if I can just get a hub that does the major formats (Zigbee, Z-Wave etc), then I should be all set and not need something like Control 4.

What I have now:
- Thermostat
- Garage door opener

What I'm planning to have at some point:
- Garage entry door (waiting for Schlage to fix their current unit so it shows locked/unlocked on the inside via an LED)
- Whole house music system (what I'm trying to figure out now)
- Lutron blind for theater room
- Maybe some sort of security system (not sure if I just want some cameras or an actual system)
- Maybe a few lights, but I dunno, not sure we need them

What I'm never going to have:
- Alexa or any device like it
- Smart refrigerator or any other appliances like that
- Whole house lighting system with macros

[klinemj]

Dec 4, 2018 13:19:15 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

If you have time, could you make a quick diagram of where in the chain the Sonos unit falls? Assuming I have the following: computer/ethernet, CD player, processor, multi-channel amp made for whole house systems, ceiling speakers. I'm going to do some Google searching now myself.

The Sonos system is pretty simple regarding where it goes and how it interfaces with the rest of your stuff.

With the speakers, you just plug them into wall power where you want them, load the app onto a phone/tablet/PC - and you will be able to select the speaker(s) and have them play over your wifi network. No amp or anything else needed.

If you use the Connect Amp, connect hardwired speakers to it, plug the Connect Amp into wall power, load the app, and start playing music to it. The only thing you need other than the Connect Amp is speakers and speaker wire.

If using the Connect (which I don't see on their website...they might have dropped it), you plug it into power, connect either the digital outs to a DAC or the analog outputs to an amp (or pre amp or pre-pro) - with the DAC/Amp/preamp/pre-pro connected as you usually would, and use the app to select and play music. With the Connect, you can use it at fixed volume (into a DAC, preamp, pre-pro, or integrated amp that controls volume) or variable volume and control volume using the Sonos app (and have it output to a DAC with fixed volume output or amplifier using the Sonos as a pre-amp). You could connect a bunch of Connects to your multi-room amp...I considered that option, but ended up putting a Connect and an amp where I wanted it in my house.

All Sonos units communicate with each other over wifi, so you can group them together or have the play independently.

I liked the Connect for some applications and the Connect Amp for others. For my critical listening area, the Connect integrated well into my system and just was one of the inputs into my DAC...so it played through amps and DAC and speakers of my choice and gave excellent CD quality. The Connect Amp works great where I could hard-wire speakers and just wanted casual listening music. The amp built in isn't super-powerful, so it didn't provide enough "oomph" for my pool (large area, outside...), but you can choose which speakers you want to use - which is nice. If you don't want to mess with hardwired speakers, their speakers are a good solution. But, you are stuck with the sound quality of their speakers...which is "ok".

Another solution for around the house is actually using Roon and any variety of Roon-ready endpoints. Roon can have multiple zones just like Sonos. And, depending on what you use as Roon ready endpoints, it may end up cheaper than using Sonos. Sure, the lifetime subscription is $500, but...if you already happen to have a Roon ready endpoint in your system, you can play to that. For example, if you have an Oppo BluRay, you can use that. Or, some DACs can be an endpoint. Or, a cheap Raspberry Pi with a quick download of RoPieee onto a micro SD card and the R-pi is an endpoint and can output digital audio via USB or HDMI...on to whatever you have (or buy) that takes that input. Roon brings another benefit in that it can output higher than CD quality, so if you use it in your critical listening area...there's no limit on quality you can play. With Sonos, it's CD quality maximum.

Also, with the Pi, you can add on a DAC that's a decent DAC within the Pi. So, a cheap option is the R-Pi with Hifiberry playing to an inexpensive amp & speakers.

Mark

[klinemj]

PS - another benefit of the Sonos Connect and Connect Amp...they have RCA inputs. So, if you want to take the audio output of your TV and have it play all over your house, run a line into the Connect or Connect amp. From the app, you can select that input and play it elsewhere. I do this and use it mainly at my pool...so if there's a race or sporting event I want to hear while I listen in the pool, I can. I can also listen anywhere I have a Sonos based system, including my kitchen, back deck, hot tub room, master bath, etc. You can control the volume but you can't change channels from the Sonos app. So, when I do this, I set what I want on the TV, then go where I want to listen and enjoy it.

Mark

[klinemj]

PS Bonzo - if you want a personal demo of Roon and Sonos and see how I have it wired up, you can swing by one day next week. You still working over near Fairfield/West Chester?

Mark

[donh50]

Control4 is pretty much "the" control system for "luxury home installations". I use SONOS with a variety of speakers around the house plus a couple of Connects for the media systems (still sold -- <Link to SONOS Connect>). There are a bunch of contenders now, natch (Blue, Heos, MusicCast, etc.) but I have had my SONOS system for years and it is a substantial investment for me so no plans to change.

I use the optical output from the Connect -- I had read some test reports indicating the DACs and/or output circuits were not all that great and bass rolloff was on the high side. I tried both outputs a few years ago and thought I could hear a slight difference but could have been expectation bias. I did not measure it. Since I had optical available I just went with that.

The Connect, Connect:Amp, the new Amp, and Play 5 speakers all have line inputs. Probably also the soundbar thingie but I have never looked closely at that.

[klinemj]

donh50 - I'm in the same situation as you...got a lot invested in Sonos and it works. So, I'm keeping it. These days, if I were starting from scratch, I'd likely use Roon and some local systems in most rooms of my house. When I built my house, I pre-wired a lot of it w/speaker cables going to wall jacks. If I were to move, I'd likely not do that again.

And, thanks for finding the Connect! It wasn't intuitively obvious how to find it from their home page. Glad to see it's still around...great product as it provides flexibility on which amp to use.

Mark

[Bonzo]

Dec 4, 2018 14:19:55 GMT -5 klinemj said:

PS Bonzo - if you want a personal demo of Roon and Sonos and see how I have it wired up, you can swing by one day next week. You still working over near Fairfield/West Chester?

Mark

I'll get back with you on all your posts above. All of a sudden swamped at work and and night at home. Funny as last week was slow.

As to your visit offer, thanks, that would be cool. But maybe in 2019. Holiday season as Im sure you know all about. The next few weeks are booked.

I'm digging discussing this topic so when I get some time during lunch I'll post back.

[klinemj]

Dec 5, 2018 18:53:56 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Dec 4, 2018 14:19:55 GMT -5 klinemj said:

PS Bonzo - if you want a personal demo of Roon and Sonos and see how I have it wired up, you can swing by one day next week. You still working over near Fairfield/West Chester?

Mark

I'll get back with you on all your posts above. All of a sudden swamped at work and and night at home. Funny as last week was slow.

As to your visit offer, thanks, that would be cool. But maybe in 2019. Holiday season as Im sure you know all about. The next few weeks are booked.

I'm digging discussing this topic so when I get some time during lunch I'll post back.

I can relate to the busy stuff...been to Atlanta 2x in past month to get my Mom moved to a Senior Living center, heading to Memphis Friday for a soccer tourney (college scouting part 1), then Rom, GA Saturday night for my daughter to go to a soccer camp (college scouting part 2), then back home Sunday night. And, been to Lima for Thanksgiving...upcoming is another Lima trip, another Atlanta trip, and Christmas here. Sitting around listening to music tonight was a nice break from the run around! For the record, I did pull out some Zeppelin to see how it fares on my latest system.

Mark