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Post by gentlejax on Dec 7, 2018 10:18:49 GMT -5
I was looking at the XPA 2 channels and one had a weight of 76lbs and the other half that.
is one amp class A/B and the other H ? or was that a misprint ? what other difference in the two?
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Post by pedrocols on Dec 7, 2018 10:26:02 GMT -5
I think the power supplies are different.
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Post by gentlejax on Dec 7, 2018 12:47:27 GMT -5
well thats what I was also thinking...the "H" is like "D" usually lighter.
if it is the class of the power supply then what is the better sounding amp , lol?
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 7, 2018 13:00:25 GMT -5
well thats what I was also thinking...the "H" is like "D" usually lighter. if it is the class of the power supply then what is the better sounding amp , lol? The power supply is class H, the amp circuitry is class A/B. You could bias gen 2 XPA-1 amps so that a percentage of the wattage was class A. |
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Dec 7, 2018 14:09:49 GMT -5
Gen 2 and Gen 3 differences. Torroidal power supply vs SMPS Class H. Both Class A/B amps.
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Post by garbulky on Dec 7, 2018 14:12:41 GMT -5
I was looking at the XPA 2 channels and one had a weight of 76lbs and the other half that.
is one amp class A/B and the other H ? or was that a misprint ? what other difference in the two?
The gen 3 uses a switching power supply which is tiny in size and lightweight while the gen 1 and 2 uses large heavy metal torroid transformers. Class H is not class D. It's the ability of the power supply to do different rail voltages on the fly. The amps still run in class A/B. The class H switch results in a tiny amount of distortion on the switch. And neither gen 1,2, or 3 amps are class D. Emotiva's class D amplifier is the PA-100. Gen 1 and gen 2 are not class H. gen 3 is class H. |
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Post by gentlejax on Dec 7, 2018 15:33:51 GMT -5
I didnt say they were class D I said they were similar in weight as in being lighter. at least the class H amps I have had were lighter and more efficient. Never said it was the same thing.
I never said gen 1 gen 2 or gen 3 ...I said XPA2 vs XPA-2 I dont know how many generations there are. I was stating weights listed on Amazon.
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Post by teaman on Dec 7, 2018 15:58:12 GMT -5
I didnt say they were class D I said they were similar in weight as in being lighter. at least the class H amps I have had were lighter and more efficient. Never said it was the same thing. I never said gen 1 gen 2 or gen 3 ...I said XPA2 vs XPA-2 I dont know how many generations there are. I was stating weights listed on Amazon. You would probably be best off calling Emotiva directly and asking all of your questions to a tech there. No matter which thread you have posted in, you are either overly defensive or confused by the answers that people are giving you. There are a lot of good people in here that know a lot, I have no idea why every time you ask a question, you don't seem to like the answers or you over-analyze them and cause a ruckus. |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 7, 2018 18:28:11 GMT -5
I didnt say they were class D I said they were similar in weight as in being lighter. at least the class H amps I have had were lighter and more efficient. Never said it was the same thing. I never said gen 1 gen 2 or gen 3 ...I said XPA2 vs XPA-2 I dont know how many generations there are. I was stating weights listed on Amazon. Emotiva's XPR amps were class H and needed to be pallet shipped they were so heavy. Similar in power to the XPA-2DR but much heavier because of the different power supplies. |
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Post by garbulky on Dec 7, 2018 18:36:34 GMT -5
I didnt say they were class D I said they were similar in weight as in being lighter. at least the class H amps I have had were lighter and more efficient. Never said it was the same thing. I never said gen 1 gen 2 or gen 3 ...I said XPA2 vs XPA-2 I dont know how many generations there are. I was stating weights listed on Amazon. I guess I didn't read closely enough. Just trying to help  |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 7, 2018 18:47:24 GMT -5
gentlejax, just so you're aware of Emotiva's current 2-channel line up: BaseX a-100: $229 BaseX a-150: $299 BaseX a-300: $399 XPA-2 Gen 3: $999 XPA-2DR : $1,599 The BaseX series all use toroidal power supplies. The XPA series all use SMPS. All amps are Class A/B.
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Post by Bonzo on Dec 7, 2018 18:57:52 GMT -5
I didnt say they were class D I said they were similar in weight as in being lighter. at least the class H amps I have had were lighter and more efficient. Never said it was the same thing. I never said gen 1 gen 2 or gen 3 ...I said XPA2 vs XPA-2 I dont know how many generations there are. I was stating weights listed on Amazon. Okay, here's a direct answer to your thread question. There is no such thing as an XPA_2. There is only an XPA-2. There are 3 generations of XPA-2. XPA-2 Gen 1, XPA-2 Gen 2, and XPA-2 Gen 3. Gen 1 and Gen 2 were nearly identical with a few cosmetic changes and Gen 2 had better RCA connectors (the Gen 1 connectors break). But Gen 3 is a totally different design that shares nothing in common with Gen 1 or 2. Its the lighter one. |
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Post by leonski on Dec 7, 2018 21:00:31 GMT -5
The difference with an 'H' ps is that it is a multi-railed.
That is to say yøu have one rail at maybe 20 volts. This is what is used most of the time.
The next rail might be 40 volts and used for peak power or high demand situations.
A 3rd rail might also be used, at maybe 60 volts. This is max power and won't be used very often.
Switching is SEAMLESS and generally Inaudible or 'Invisible' to the end user.
You could make such a PS with conventional parts, meaning a big toroid, large electrolytic capacitors and a bridge recitifier per 'rail'........
OR
Make it as a switcher. Skip the huge transformer and large caps. Up the frequency to maybe 100khz from 60hz. That means more opportunity for each cap to recharge AND no more need for capacitors the size of a Coke Can.
I'm not a big fan of switchers, personally. At least in high power amps. They are more complicated and should therefore, all other things being equal, fair more often. I don't like other non=standard PS, either. One BIG rail with plenty of
backup capacitance works for me. I'd bet on better measured performance AND better headroom from the conventional PS.
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Post by gentlejax on Dec 9, 2018 11:09:41 GMT -5
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Post by emofrmcgy on Dec 9, 2018 12:14:06 GMT -5
well thats what I was also thinking...the "H" is like "D" usually lighter. if it is the class of the power supply then what is the better sounding amp , lol? Only you can really answer which sounds better to you. The listings you’re referring to are for a Gen2 amp for 1200 and a Gen3 for 999. Many seem to dislike the new Gen3 amps. But really it’s up to you which is better or more suited to your tastes. I’ve heard neither, I had Gen 1 amps, xpr series amps and mps series amps. The latter both used class h power supplies and were both near or over the 100# mark. It’s quite possible the smps implementation in the emo amps needs more work as they do very well in other highly regarded amplifiers. Cough cough... hypex ncore... or not. |
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Post by Cogito on Dec 9, 2018 12:20:17 GMT -5
First of all, the XPA-2 Gen. 2 has been discontinued and replaced by the modular XPA-2 Gen.3. Both have similar specs, but the Gen.2 uses a more conventional and MUCH heavier linear power supply that uses a large toroidial transformer. The Gen 3 uses a much lighter and efficient switching type power supply, much like those used in computers and such. IMHO The more conventional Gen. 2 is the better amp. It's power supply is by design, very robust and should last for decades. Not only that, the Gen.2 has the fancy dancing blue LED power output meters.However, if you plan on adding more channels later on, the GEN.3 can be expanded. Either way, both amps would serve you well. |
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Post by Bonzo on Dec 9, 2018 12:27:38 GMT -5
You simply aren't listening to what we are telling you. I'm done here. |
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Post by gentlejax on Dec 9, 2018 17:23:14 GMT -5
I was simply clearing up the confusion of what I was talking about. I understand the differences between the classes . I know H is not same as D .;
what I meant was that they are more efficient than usual old fashioned AB . I have owned them all. I have had hundreds of car amps and now several dozen home audio amps.. i have had class AB and D and some other variations . I wasnt clear on the difference in the two I listed on the amazon link. its clear now . was curious on how the two sounded and which one people thought sounded better ...I know its subjective.
Lately there is a lot of developement in class D and people are saying its much better than it was a few years ago. I already am basically familiar with the classes I just didnt make it clear my question. I mispoke about the weight I really meant the efficiency was similar between D and H .. I have just purchased a Wyred 4 sound ST-500 mainly because I kept hearing how well the PA-1 D sounded. SO when I say the 2 XPA amps with different topology I wondered what the people thought was better sounding amp. that was the thing I was getting at.
I really just wanted to know the differences and what people liked better because I am moving away from old vintage and or pro audio amps . Id like to buy a good emotiva in future but want to make the best choice for the money. cant buy a new one that I would like so i have to look at earlier models .
because of this I ask to give me an idea if the changes have led to lesser quality or sound or reliability . I am not that familiar with all these models and generations of the same amps and the many levels emo produced.
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Post by leonski on Dec 9, 2018 17:24:14 GMT -5
The main advantage of a SMPS for amps, especially at higher power ratings, is that you SAVE shipping weight. This lessens damage potential and claims and all the headaches THAT starts.
Switchers generally do NOT have the headroom potential of a good linear.
And as for 'efficiency'? You MIGHT gain a couple points with a switcher, but the real 'ceiling' is that of the A/B biased output section. You can diddle with that setting and gain more efficiency at some 'expense' in SQ, potentially.
Most are well-served by a good, 'high bias' design where the first 10 watts or so are biased 'A'.
'D' amps are different but STILL the output devices must be biased. Usually what would be considered at A/B levels. These amps feature VERY high efficiency but at the very HIGHEST output powers.
B&O claims around 90%, but that's at full-tilt. And the right way, IMO, being from PLUG TO SPEAKER.
At more normal powers? Still more efficient than an A/B amp, but nothing like you'd expect.
ALL amps are ZERO Efficiency at idle, with no output demand.
'H' is a power supply, not an amp class. As is 'G', which is apparently related in some fashion to 'H'?? One of these 2 'classes' will modulate the PS output to 'track' the input siganl, the OTHER will switch 'Rails' to provide
higher power at higher levels.
Bob Carver was a HUGE fan of 'tracking power supply' and is probably a multiple patent holder. My original M400t ('The Cube') featured several 'rails' in the PS and had good overall performance. And ran cool.
Bob evolved at LOT over the years.
If you are at all curious? Check out the OUTLAW M2200 monoblock amp.
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Post by gentlejax on Dec 9, 2018 17:33:00 GMT -5
have you heard some of the newer ice based D amps ? I know the ice chips have been around ( had ice power car amps years ago) and are now on their 4th or 5th generation or something like that. ive had lots of high power amps (over 200 rms) and I am trying to see if the newer stuff is as good as the older stuff.
I have a rebuilt adcom gfa555 on the way and the wyred4sound st-500 coming. old fashioned a/b vs new class D. I will keep the one I like best OR sell both and try to get the best EMO amp I can that I feel comfy spending. between the 2 of those I have over $1k invested but not planning to keep both in first place.
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