What's the easiest to use Music streaming device ?

[wilburthegoose]

Of course - those video rips were low bitrate.

[KeithL]

Video can be somewhat trickier than audio - because the bandwidth requirements of true lossless video are staggering.

That's why the video on Blu-Ray and 4k discs is already heavily compressed.

One hour of uncompressed 4k video takes up somewhere over a terabyte.

Dec 26, 2018 16:50:50 GMT -5 wilburthegoose said:

Of course - those video rips were low bitrate.

[pknaz]

Dec 26, 2018 16:34:27 GMT -5 LuisV said:

Dec 26, 2018 14:19:13 GMT -5 pknaz said:

There is no audible difference between a CD and a lossless copy of said CD. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. 

Lossless is lossless true; however, in regards to streaming if the internet connection, home network and or streaming cloud service can not pump the bits, there will be an audible difference as the bits streamed could have been downconverted or limited in some fashion due to bandwith QoS issues.  Video files are even more apparent or at least they are to me.  I've noticed black banding effects from low bitrate ripped blurays as well as from streaming sevices like Netflix and Vudu; however, they are not visible while using the disk or a "lossless" rip of said disk.    

Then don't get an internet streaming service for your music, rip your CDs to a lossless format on a NAS device and stream from your favorite endpoint (I use an AppleTV and airplay, the DAC is my XMC-1).

If your internet connection can't handle lossless audio streaming, either you need a faster internet connection (I'm not even sure what type of internet connection you would have, in this case, as my parents in super rural PA with "only" 12Mbps internet speeds is more than enough to stream lossless) or you need a better wifi network.  

If it is your wifi network, get a Ubiquity Access Point on amazon for roughly $100 (Some times they're on sale for less, some times they're a bit more). This is the one I have (clicky) 

Taken from: support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/205316862-Sonos
5.0 Megabits per second - 1 FLAC stream

7.5 Megabits per second - 2 FLAC streams

10 Megabits per second - 3 or more FLAC streams

Video, on the other hand, is a different story.
1080p requires 4Mbps of bandwidth compressed.  DVD-Video uses either H.262/MPEG-2 Part 2 compression at up to 9.8 Mbit/s (9,800 kbit/s) or MPEG-1 Part 2 compression at up to 1.856 Mbit/s (1,856 kbit/s)
4k streamed content, even compressed beyond that of a Blu ray requires anywhere from 15-30Mbps (depending on your streaming service and how much they compress it) - and since it is compressed well beyond that of a Bluray, you will see a difference in video quality.
Blu Ray: The specification allows for three disc capacities, each with its own data rate: 50 GB with 82 Mbit/s, 66 GB with 108 Mbit/s, and 100 GB with 128 Mbit/s.

[LuisV]

I'm speaking in general terms as most users don't have a fully managed network at home with a GB plan... call me lucky.  

[Loop 7]

My path:

2000 - 2002
I ripped CDs (mp3) for use with early mobile players.

2003
I jumped fully into ripping when iTunes offered AAC (iTunes version 4 I think) - however, I ripped my entire CD collection to 128k AAC.

2005
I sold my dedicated CD players (Denon and Pioneer)

2008
I too realized lossy rips were inferior so I re-ripped my entire CD collection to ALAC (Apple Lossless) using iTunes.

2011
I started streaming using MOG and then Beats Music (acquired by Apple) until it evolved into Apple Music at which time I migrated over to Google Play Music but still listened to lossless rips using a headless Mac Mini running iTunes.

2016
I made the mistake of trying Roon and, within a week, said farewell to iTunes, and gradually re-ripped my entire collection to FLAC because... well just because.

2016
I became a TIDAL subscriber - unsubscribing from Google Play Music.

2018 (late)
I canceled my TIDAL subscription and have been using Qobuz which is just great and I am very much looking forward to it being available in Roon in the next month or two.

[jamco]

Stream Box S2 Ultra by Pro-Ject Audio Systems
* You may want to take a look at the Stream Box S2 Ultra before you invest in a streamer. I'm not suggesting that it is better than the other streamers that were suggested here.
* It uses a custom Pro-Ject version of the popular Volumio software, which is easy to use for most people.

Note
* I have admittedly not heard or seen this streamer before I placed my order for this streamer.
* I'll follow up with my impression after it arrives and I get a chance to listen to it for a few days.
* I'm not affiliated with Pro-Ject or their distributors.

Points of Interest
* It supports TIDAL, Spotify Connect and is Roon Ready.
* Audio formats include PCM 32bit/352.8kHz, DSD256.
* Data protocols include RAAT (Roon), Shairport (AirPlay), DLNA (NAS).
* Computer Bypass will “detox” the USB output before it reaches D/A converter.
* 3 USB Inputs.
* Offers Multi-room for up to 6 devices.
* Bluetooth Classic + EDR v2.1, v3.0, v4.0 and Low Energy.
* John Westlake is the co-designer of this streamer.
* This streamer serves as both an audio optimized network bridge and USB detox device (see Computer Bypass).
* This design is going into 3 different OEM streamer solutions.
* HDMI Output offers Volumio video with touchscreen; I believe it excludes audio.

Reference Links
* Product webpage (link). You may have to click on EN for the english language.
* Product manual <link>
* Product; more information <link>.
* John Westlake talks about the design challenges and solutions here <link>
* John Westlake; who is he? <link>
* Award by EISA <link>
* Award by Qobuz (translated by Google from French to English) <link>
* Review by Hans Beekhuyzen <link>
* Review by HiFi.NL (translated by Google from Dutch to English) <link>

Happy streaming...<style></style>

[leonski]

I would add that Thru the SAME system, a Lossless file (FLAC or perhaps ALAC) should sound identical to the parent CD. Both lossless formats I mention will be able to recreate a BIT ACCURATE copy of the original material.

Minor (or major!) differences in signal chain might still be an issue, or not, or perhaps just 'noticed'.

Compression when streaming is the Enemy of both Video and Audio. The 1080p Video from my camera is way better than off the small dish. Color saturation, detail and motion are ALL superior to High Def which looks, to my excellent eyes,
no better than a decent quality DVD. You havet' lived until you've seen the direct HD feed from a sporting event, PRIOR to all the compression, stepping-on, and 'downgrading' to prevent good copies being made.
THEY (small dish OR Cable) do NOT want to talk about compression or compression artifacts.

I've run tests on my iMac with a teenager with excellent hearing. She Easilly preferred the ALAC version of a file when compared to an MP3-160 of the same material. Every Time. I did at least 10 trials, mixing up the order as much as I could.
I was using GRADO SR80e headphones, so not exactly a bank-breaking set of cans.

Wait until Net Neutrality is put in its grave. THAN you'll start having to PAY for the extra bandwidth, after all, the position of the owners of the networks will Opine that MP3 or whatever is Just As Good as the real thing. Sure.

[highfihoney2]

Dec 26, 2018 9:04:49 GMT -5 DYohn said:

Dec 26, 2018 2:19:26 GMT -5 highfihoney2 said:

No sense in getting rid of the Mac because it would be a major loss ,plus I don't want a larger server ,I'm getting old fast ,my eyes suck so digging thru rows of vinyl isn't cutting it ,I also don't want to stop using my server because I can work it blindfolded ,at the $1,500 price point do you have any technical or mechanical reason why you don't like the McIntosh MB-50 for streaming ? I've never owned a streaming device so I have no point of reference like I have with preamps ,amplifiers and speaker systems .

If all you want is to stream content from Internet sources it will do that. But there are many other far less expensive devices that will do that, plus the MB-50 is limited to wireless network connectivity unless you add an additional converter, and it cannot stream content from your home library unless it is is done via DTS Play-Fi. It is a ver limited device compared to others on the market.

-edit- based on your first post I assumed you were looking for a music server/streamer that could hold more of your library?

Actually I'm ok with divorcing myself from my CDs but not my vinyl ,I enjoy going through the motions of cleaning the album ,getting everything right & watching the LP spin while I listen ,I will keep the music server in the rack simply because selling that unit would be a massive finincial loss ,Mc servers don't hold value like their amps,plus with my favorite CDs already cataloged in the server I'm extremely familiar with it, but I don't really want or need to incorporate my music library with streaming ,I'd like to keep my collection as back up,and the self pride in having a big collection,I spent a few hours with another audio guy dreaming up titles to stream from his rig Friday evening & everything I'd ever want to hear is available , I am not dead set on, or must have the McIntosh streaming unit but I do like how McIntosh keeps things simple for us old farts so the learning curve isn't too terrible ,I've only known the man I just bought speakers from & spent time streaming with for a week, but I'm fairly certain I've met a new friend who shares our love of music & will make good on his word to walk me through streaming ,he even mentioned setting up my wife's lap top for me to stream from before I spend any real money ,thanks .

[leonski]

The vinyl 'ritual' is indeed important.

[highfihoney2]

Dec 29, 2018 22:56:55 GMT -5 jamco said:

Stream Box S2 Ultra by Pro-Ject Audio Systems
* You may want to take a look at the Stream Box S2 Ultra before you invest in a streamer. I'm not suggesting that it is better than the other streamers that were suggested here.
* It uses a custom Pro-Ject version of the popular Volumio software, which is easy to use for most people.

Note
* I have admittedly not heard or seen this streamer before I placed my order for this streamer.
* I'll follow up with my impression after it arrives and I get a chance to listen to it for a few days.
* I'm not affiliated with Pro-Ject or their distributors.

Points of Interest
* It supports TIDAL, Spotify Connect and is Roon Ready.
* Audio formats include PCM 32bit/352.8kHz, DSD256.
* Data protocols include RAAT (Roon), Shairport (AirPlay), DLNA (NAS).
* Computer Bypass will “detox” the USB output before it reaches D/A converter.
* 3 USB Inputs.
* Offers Multi-room for up to 6 devices.
* Bluetooth Classic + EDR v2.1, v3.0, v4.0 and Low Energy.
* John Westlake is the co-designer of this streamer.
* This streamer serves as both an audio optimized network bridge and USB detox device (see Computer Bypass).
* This design is going into 3 different OEM streamer solutions.
* HDMI Output offers Volumio video with touchscreen; I believe it excludes audio.

Reference Links
* Product webpage (link). You may have to click on EN for the english language.
* Product manual <link>
* Product; more information <link>.
* John Westlake talks about the design challenges and solutions here <link>
* John Westlake; who is he? <link>
* Award by EISA <link>
* Award by Qobuz (translated by Google from French to English) <link>
* Review by Hans Beekhuyzen <link>
* Review by HiFi.NL (translated by Google from Dutch to English) <link>

Happy streaming...<style></style>

You nailed it when you posted " ease of use " which is my primary concern at this stage ,I've been using YouTube music direct from my phone to the USB on preamp ,while SQ isn't the best for sure the ease of use is up my alley ,I'm still learning how to program the McIntosh C-2500 preamp & ain't ashamed to say it's a bit overwhelming at times with so many choices for every input & output ,while it's slow I am learning more & more about operating digital devices ,I've still got a few months of listening room reconstruction to fit the needs of my new speaker system that slams down to 16hz ,I'll be extremely busy demoing my Krell,McIntosh and Emotiva amps to see which pair will be running the new speakers ,at my age this will be the last room & system I set up so my new audio friends offer of setting up our laptop to learn streaming is invaluable until I learn enough to be comfortable selecting the very last format change I do in my lifetime ,I've came a long way from RTR tape & 8 tracks to a music server ,and finally a dedicated streaming device ,once I get the room & system set up correctly I'll revisit this thread & start trying out the suggestions ,thanks for everyone's help , the suggestions have given me an idea of how simple it will be once I select the device & service .

[djreef]

Dec 25, 2018 16:04:47 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

I'm different, nothing new there most would say
I have loaded my CD's to the iCloud via the MacMini, no hard drives required, automatic back up, 24/7/365 guaranteed service, anywhere in the world, on any iDevice. At home in the main system on the Apple TV4K (yes, it's lossless) controlled via iPhone or iPad, in the car via Car Play or mobile with headphones. I don't have to worry about storage space, how many terrathingy's, did the back up work, restoring when the hard drive crashes, how do I play my music when I'm away from home working or on holidays etc etc. Add up the cost of the gear and the time spent maintaining it and utilising cloud services looks very cost effective as well.

Happy New Year
Gary

How much per month?

DJ

[djreef]

Dec 26, 2018 14:19:13 GMT -5 pknaz said:

Dec 25, 2018 18:49:19 GMT -5 LuisV said:

I agree with you to a certain point Gary Cook , but there are certainly audible and visual differences between a disk, rip and streaming from the cloud.  It's possible that those differences are fine with you or possibly you don't notice them.  In my eyes it's a similar discussion regarding cables... some say copper is copper, others say they can hear a difference. 

All in all and simply my humble opinion... as long as you like it, it's perfect in every respect, where as, others might feel differently and they too are entitled to their opinion.   Whatever gets your toes tapping and brings a smile to your face is the end goal...

There is no audible difference between a CD and a lossless copy of said CD. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. 

Yes, but there are differences in the way certain works are mastered, and you don’t always have a choice as to which one you get when streaming. Most current remasters make my ears bleed. I’d rather have control over which copy I listen to and load my own content, which is why the cloud option might work better for me.

DJ

[geeqner]

For Ease of Use - I’m luvin’ my Bluesound Node 2i

It’s a little web-enabled “box”, about the size of a paperback book
- Downloaded the App to my iPad
- plugged it into Power
- Patched the Audio Outputs from it into a spare Input on my Pre-Amp
- Patched it into my home network (small 6-port Switch in Entertainment Rack)
App found it & guided me through an update and configure that took about 15 Minutes or less

Gets me ALL of the following (mostly controlled via the App / iPad):
- Access to hundreds of on-Line (many commercial less) Radio Stations
- Access to Streaming Services (going to try Tidal)
- Can Access my home Network Server, where my FLAC files will soon be installed
- Access point to stream high-quality Via Bluetooth from portable devices into my system
It has a pretty decent built-in DAC

Look it up - it may be a great place to start, like it was for me.

[Gary Cook]

Jan 5, 2019 19:12:58 GMT -5 djreef said:

Dec 25, 2018 16:04:47 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

I'm different, nothing new there most would say
I have loaded my CD's to the iCloud via the MacMini, no hard drives required, automatic back up, 24/7/365 guaranteed service, anywhere in the world, on any iDevice. At home in the main system on the Apple TV4K (yes, it's lossless) controlled via iPhone or iPad, in the car via Car Play or mobile with headphones. I don't have to worry about storage space, how many terrathingy's, did the back up work, restoring when the hard drive crashes, how do I play my music when I'm away from home working or on holidays etc etc. Add up the cost of the gear and the time spent maintaining it and utilising cloud services looks very cost effective as well.

How much per month?
DJ

Sorry missed this question. I share with my family 4TB's @ $A14.99 (that's around $US10.50). We have around 3TB's for music and the other 1TB is for race car data sharing.

Cheers
Gary

[DYohn]

Newly released "easy to use" streaming device: www.elac.com/product/discovery-connect-ds-c101w-g/?r=us

[mountain]

New and interesting:  NAD C 658 BluOS Streaming DAC.  Roon Ready, MQa , WiFi, etc. 

[mountain]

Jan 29, 2019 17:36:54 GMT -5 mountain said:

New and interesting:  NAD C 658 BluOS Streaming DAC.  Roon Ready, MQa , WiFi, etc. 

Oh, including Dirac Live..........

[jamco]

Dec 29, 2018 22:56:55 GMT -5 jamco said:

Stream Box S2 Ultra by Pro-Ject Audio Systems
* You may want to take a look at the Stream Box S2 Ultra before you invest in a streamer. I'm not suggesting that it is better than the other streamers that were suggested here.
* It uses a custom Pro-Ject version of the popular Volumio software, which is easy to use for most people.

Note
* I have admittedly not heard or seen this streamer before I placed my order for this streamer.
* I'll follow up with my impression after it arrives and I get a chance to listen to it for a few days.
* I'm not affiliated with Pro-Ject or their distributors.

Points of Interest
* It supports TIDAL, Spotify Connect and is Roon Ready.
* Audio formats include PCM 32bit/352.8kHz, DSD256.
* Data protocols include RAAT (Roon), Shairport (AirPlay), DLNA (NAS).
* Computer Bypass will “detox” the USB output before it reaches D/A converter.
* 3 USB Inputs.
* Offers Multi-room for up to 6 devices.
* Bluetooth Classic + EDR v2.1, v3.0, v4.0 and Low Energy.
* John Westlake is the co-designer of this streamer.
* This streamer serves as both an audio optimized network bridge and USB detox device (see Computer Bypass).
* This design is going into 3 different OEM streamer solutions.
* HDMI Output offers Volumio video with touchscreen; I believe it excludes audio.

Reference Links
* Product webpage (link). You may have to click on EN for the english language.
* Product manual <link>
* Product; more information <link>.
* John Westlake talks about the design challenges and solutions here <link>
* John Westlake; who is he? <link>
* Award by EISA <link>
* Award by Qobuz (translated by Google from French to English) <link>
* Review by Hans Beekhuyzen <link>
* Review by HiFi.NL (translated by Google from Dutch to English) <link>

Happy streaming...

My impression...

The Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra sounded good for several weeks. I also liked their nifty USB/PC detox function for YouTube videos and concerts. Unfortunately, the warranty replacement unit had the same operational issues that I had reported earlier to Pro-Ject through their distributor. I returned it for a refund. Their next firmware version may be an improvement.

[geeqner]

Jan 30, 2019 16:22:21 GMT -5 mountain said:

Jan 29, 2019 17:36:54 GMT -5 mountain said:

New and interesting:  NAD C 658 BluOS Streaming DAC.  Roon Ready, MQa , WiFi, etc. 

Oh, including Dirac Live..........

So it's basically the BlueSound Node 2i PLUS:

Dirac Live
Balanced and non-Balanced Pre-Amp Outputs *
Can be used as a stand-alone, relatively high-end DAC

My local dealer recommended the Node 2i plus adding the XSP-1, which he felt was a better pre-Amp for the money

* the NAD C658 performs its Pre-Amp functions within the Digital domain.
ALL Analog inputs are internally converted to Digital and then the levels are adjusted (and internal EQ functions) within the Digital domain before the final D/A conversion.  He felt that the Balanced Analog handling of Pre-Amp functions (phono stage, etc.) within the XSP-1 (latest Gen) was superior.
His argument was that "All things being equal - handling low-level signals via high-grade Balanced Analog circuitry like the XSP-1 would introduce less noise and alter the throughput less than the 'Digital Games' being played within the NAD unit".

[Deleted]

www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd-series

I don't know about ease of use, but features & sound quality this may be it.
Volumio, Dirac, in/out flexibility...
One of these may end up in my A/V center..